RFC Europe Wonders

[jessiecat]

Louisiana not requiring AA is a bug.

Philippines is a typo.

Louisiana + SA or NA, I though about it as Louisiana can be colonized from the Caribbean sea, which counts as SA. Anyway, I will change it to NA to better balance the two.

NA would be correct because the French originally colonized Louisiana from the north via the Great Lakes and the upper Mississippi Valley. That's why they founded St. Louis and then Baton Rouge before New Orleans.

 

[JediClemente]

Columbus Voyage should allow the building of Colonies, such as Manhattan Project in regular Civ4.

That is, no one can build colonies until it has been built by someone.

It could some other minor bonus, like +10% colonial projects production in every city.

Also, I suppose the mistakes in current projects (some are team instead of world projects) are already noted.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Columbus Voyage should allow the building of Colonies, such as Manhattan Project in regular Civ4.

That is, no one can build colonies until it has been built by someone.

But some colonies are Old World (East Africa and Gold Coast) which were discovered before Columbus. Maybe later colonies should require Columbus Voyage.

Also, it's rather unfair that if Aztec or Inca Conquest has been done (and that they are going to be switched to one-off projects), only that civ can build colonies there. Can we make them similar to Columbus Voyage (e.g. Spain conquers the Aztecs but the Dutch can also build colonies in North America like NY)?

 

[3Miro]

But some colonies are Old World (East Africa and Gold Coast) which were discovered before Columbus. Maybe later colonies should require Columbus Voyage.

Also, it's rather unfair that if Aztec or Inca Conquest has been done (and that they are going to be switched to one-off projects), only that civ can build colonies there. Can we make them similar to Columbus Voyage (e.g. Spain conquers the Aztecs but the Dutch can also build colonies in North America like NY)?

What do you mean by this. I am not sure I understand you. Aztec and Inca are just ywo additional projects in the game and even, if Spain builds them, them the Dutch can still build New England.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

So as I understand it, Inca and Aztec Conquest can only be done once in the new version and they provide access to other colonies, so that only the civ that conquered them can build those colonies with SAm access. Historically, Portugal, France and the Netherlands have colonies in SAm, so that would not be fair. Why not make Inca and Aztec Conquest be like Columbus' Voyage which enables ALL civs to build those other colonies.

On another note, what if you bought access from another Civ, started building your colony and the access is not available any more (either because the AI revoked it or it got destroyed by another AI pillaging the area)? Do you lose the hammers you've invested in it? What if after you've finished building it and lost the access--does it still give those resources?

 

[3Miro]

So as I understand it, Inca and Aztec Conquest can only be done once in the new version and they provide access to other colonies, so that only the civ that conquered them can build those colonies with SAm access. Historically, Portugal, France and the Netherlands have colonies in SAm, so that would not be fair. Why not make Inca and Aztec Conquest be like Columbus' Voyage which enables ALL civs to build those other colonies.

You got it wrong. Inca and Aztec can be build only once and they provide the SA access, however, the access is not a requirement. The one that conquers Inca can build South American colonies faster, but there is nothing to prevent others from building American colonies as well.

 

[jessiecat]

So as I understand it, Inca and Aztec Conquest can only be done once in the new version and they provide access to other colonies, so that only the civ that conquered them can build those colonies with SAm access. Historically, Portugal, France and the Netherlands have colonies in SAm, so that would not be fair. Why not make Inca and Aztec Conquest be like Columbus' Voyage which enables ALL civs to build those other colonies.

On another note, what if you bought access from another Civ, started building your colony and the access is not available any more (either because the AI revoked it or it got destroyed by another AI pillaging the area)? Do you lose the hammers you've invested in it? What if after you've finished building it and lost the access--does it still give those resources?

I understand your point. I think the Conquests should be colonies on their own and not provide exclusive access to S. American colonies. I'm not really comfortable with the idea of access to specific oceans anyway. If you've got Atlantic Access you shouldn't need other types of access. The idea of needing access to different oceans once you're in the Atlantic seemed pointless to me when it was first suggested. I still take that view.

Your second question is interesting. I've often wondered that myself.

 

[Michael Vick]

It's not access to the South or North American Oceans, it's the idea that if you build one colony, you'll have an advantage in producing a colony next to it. If England has a colony in Virginia, and Portugal has a colony in Brazil, who would be the first to build New England? England, because they're right next to the location. NA and SA access are only production bonuses, the ocean requirement is AA access, which is completely different.

 

[JediClemente]

After another search at last, I found "Westerkerk" graphics. It's a dutch church. Could be used as Amsterdam Bourse. I know it's not much appropiate, but didn't find anything better.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8491
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westerkerk
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdamse_effectenbeurs (to compare the appearance)

I also located new summer palace graphics, as the current ones have too many polygons for a national wonder:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/homeland_security_64K.jpg

Doesn't really look much like a "palace", but neither does the current standard palace.

Now those current summer palace graphics, which are fit for a non-medieval castle/palace, could be used for something like Chateau de Fontainebleau:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Fontainebleau

Which was the main entrance door for Renaissance artistic influence into France. (should provide some cultural bonus, fit for France's UHV)

Please make other suggestions if possible.

Edit: and...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/5_5lf.jpg
as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatine_Chapel_in_Aachen

To have Charlemagne present, awaiting for him to be leader of either France or Germany...

 

[Michael Vick]

New colony suggestions:
Carolinas:
+2 cotton
+2 tobacco
x2 speed with NA access

Guyana:
+1 gold
+1 gems
+2 spices

Florida:
+2 sugar
+2 tobacco

Colombia-Venezuela (New Granada)
+2 coffee
+1 sugar
+1 gold

also maybe think of something to call the new York- Pennsylvania area, which isn't represented right now.

 

[JediClemente]

I'd take Guyana (only +1 gold, +1 gems, cheaper than others) and Carolina (like you suggested).

I thought New York was in New England. And that one should give +1 timber and one less fish.

Wasn't there some idea to give more real advantages to having colonies? Like when one of your cities is revolting, the unhappy population has a probability of fleeing to your colonies (this is useful). Similar to American UP in RFC, and simpler as you only delete population, not adding it elsewhere.

As of now Colonialism is an underused civic. +2 stability for each colonial project?

Mercantilism could enable a "House of trade" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_de_Contratación ) coastal national wonder (only works under that civic). Extra foreign trade routes only in that city, number depending on city population.

And something a little more complex: "fake" trade routes to your colonies in your bigger coastal cities, only in the one with that national wonder if under Mercantilism.

 

[Wessel V1]

Wasn't there some idea to give more real advantages to having colonies? Like when one of your cities is revolting, the unhappy population has a probability of fleeing to your colonies (this is useful). Similar to American UP in RFC, and simpler as you only delete population, not adding it elsewhere.

I like the idea, but I think it might be unwanted sometimes (e.g. the city is finishing a church). Maybe make it optional for the player to let them go to the colonies? We might even use it as a whip ("when you finish our Bank, then we will guide you to Jamaica where you can settle where you want"), without unhappiness?

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yes that was his idea, making it a player-chosen action. It could be similar to drafting, the player could only do it 3 times a turn, no more than once per city, and only cities above 6 population could use it (actually, in the era of colonies, I don't think cities below 6 population would suffer from unhappiness or sickness).
Edit: And of course, only cities that you own a high number of cultural % in them.

 

[Cethegus]

Whipping... I don't know how hard it is to code, but what if the Whip button was designed to add a free Slave specialist in the city of choice once every 4-10 turns per number of Slave resources you have? For example, it could add +4 or +10% and no :greatperson: points and cease to exist the next turn. The revolts would be represented with the instability it brings along, (which to my knowledge should still be there from regular RFC) or would just increase the number of 'slave revolt' events you'd get, which would have to be redesigned. This time it would require Slave resource instead of Slavery civic and keep count of how often the whip is used (though it might slow down the game too much so it's not necessary; even the original event reacts only whether the civic is present or not).

 

[BurnEmDown]

I've got an idea: Why not make Colonialism civic allow "slavery", however "slavery" won't induce unhappiness and won't hurry production, I think it should do something other than removing population from a city though... any ideas?

 

[JediClemente]

The problem is history. There was no slavery (in the whipping sense) in Europe at the time.

Losing population from cities was mainly due to:
- Plagues.
- Religious prosecution and expulsions (jews and huguenots).
- Looking for opportunities in the New Word.
- Wars (most notably the Thirty Years War).

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yes, what I mean is that the slavery mechanic be renamed to something like "send the population to the new world" and it's mechanic slightly changed.
I think it's not just luck that, not only does RFCE have the slavery button unused, but also colonialism civic is kind of weak, AND colonies in particular need a minor boost .

 

[3Miro]

Yes, what I mean is that the slavery mechanic be renamed to something like "send the population to the new world" and it's mechanic slightly changed.
I think it's not just luck that, not only does RFCE have the slavery button unused, but also colonialism civic is kind of weak, AND colonies in particular need a minor boost .

Updating the colonialism civic is on the "ToDo" list. It will give + stability upon building a colony.

What do you think the effect of the whip button would be? I don't think you can use it as "rush building/wonder"

 

[jessiecat]

Updating the colonialism civic is on the "ToDo" list. It will give + stability upon building a colony.

What do you think the effect of the whip button would be? I don't think you can use it as "rush building/wonder"

Updating colonialism so it gives a real benefit from colony-building is a great idea but I still don't think we need the whip in any form. It's one gimmick from RFC that should have no place in our mod. We've already got the slave resource which speeds up colony-building anyway. That's enough IMO.

BTW No more colonies please. We've already got 22 of them plus the trading companies. In my last game as England I built 12 of them while Spain built only 3. The AI seems to stop building colonies once it builds 2 or 3.

 

[Cethegus]

Updating colonialism so it gives a real benefit from colony-building is a great idea but I still don't think we need the whip in any form. It's one gimmick from RFC that should have no place in our mod. We've already got the slave resource which speeds up colony-building anyway. That's enough IMO.

Then I approach you with another suggestion: temporary +1 or stability point for each used population? Prisoners were sent to distant colonies, after all. Maybe we should ponder that possibility? The button could be renamed "Relocate population" button.