RFC Europe Wonders

[forlorn.hopes]

wat bout the Belem Tower (Lisboa): it could increase the line of sight on water and have a +25%defense in all coastal settlements.

 

[jessiecat]

wat bout the Belem Tower (Lisboa): it could increase the line of sight on water and have a +25%defense in all coastal settlements.

It's already in the mod. Thanks.

 

[General Toad]

AFIK the Hungarian wonder is the Golden Bull, which directly ties to their UHV.

Give the suggestions. We can add some more wonders, however, we will hardly add 20 new ones (too much gameplay will change).

Buda Castle- First constructed (finished) in 1265, it served as the palace of the Hungarian Kings. It was destroyed in 1686 when Christian forces invaded the now-Ottomon region, but was rebuilt in 1715, to be destoyed, rebuilt, and repaired, several more times untill this present day. Here's it's Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda_Castle

Pannonhalma Archabbey: There's more to this one, so I'll just post the article and leave it at that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenary_Benedictine_Monastery

I have no ideas for the exact bonuses they would give, but...

 

[jessiecat]

Yes. Buda Castle might be good one. As some of you know. the original idea was to have at least 1 world wonder per civ and we've pretty much done that except for three (Netherlands, Austria and Poland) which have none. Our total of 35 world wonders and 6 national wonders is a bit less than RFC (47 and 8). But this is balanced by our having a lot more colonies and projects. Still. there is probably room to add a few more to represent civs that have only 1 or none. This is the list.
Poland (none)
Austria (none)
Netherlands (none)
Bulgaria 1
Hungary 1
Germany 1
Sweden 1
Norse 1
Burgundy 1
Kievan Rus 1
Moscow 1
Ottomans 1
England 1
All the rest are represented by 2 or more wonders so we should try to stick to wonders from countries on the list so we keep an overall balance. For myself I'd like to suggest the Tower of London (built by a Great Spy, replaces Scotland Yard in RFC), as I believe I brought up before.

 

[merijn_v1]

Here are some ideas for the Dutch Wonders:

Explanation:
Dutch name
English name
Power of the wonder
Specials


- Kaasmarkt
- Cheese market
- Maybe grocer +2 (or market)
- Double speed production with cow


- A'dam Beurs
- A'dam Stock Exchange
- Halves Corporation payments in cities (I prefer this one)
or
+75% / +100% in the city where it's build
Maybe double production speed with gold


- Tulpenmanie
- Tulip Mania
- I don't know a good power right now


- A'dam Haven
- A'dam Harbor
- +50% trade route yeild in all cities (with harbor)
or
+2 for all harbors (like La Mezquita, but then for harbor and maybe lighthouses)
or
+2 on all water tiles in all cities (like The Collusus)


The links:

Cheese Market:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_cheese_markets
A'dam Stock Exchange:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Stock_Exchange
Tulip Mania:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
A'dam Harbor: (Dutch only)
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdamse_haven

 

[3Miro]

- Kaasmarkt
- Cheese market
- Maybe grocer +2 (or market)
- Double speed production with cow

More like +1 health with cow or +2 culture rather than gold. As far as I understand the the culture is more then the profit here. Anyway, I am against this one.

- A'dam Beurs
- A'dam Stock Exchange
- Halves Corporation payments in cities (I prefer this one)
or
+75% / +100% in the city where it's build
Maybe double production speed with gold

How come we did not include this one already. It looks as must have. Lowering corp payment seems OP, the it will be very hard for the Dutch to get a corporation (contradicts both their late start and their UHV) and if someone else gets it, the corporations will be too overpowered (I think they are overpowered now). Go with the Wall Street effect, +100% in this city, I don't remember if we have such a wonder yet.

- Tulpenmanie
- Tulip Mania
- I don't know a good power right now

I like this one. +1 or +2 happiness or +25% culture or something like that.

- A'dam Haven
- A'dam Harbor
- +50% trade route yeild in all cities (with harbor)
or
+2 for all harbors (like La Mezquita, but then for harbor and maybe lighthouses)
or
+2 on all water tiles in all cities (like The Collusus)

+50% trade yield is OP (combined with the Dutch UP). I think we already have +2 commerce per water tile effect. +2 gold will not be much since the Dutch will only have a few cities.

How about Space Elevator effect, faster colony construction, so that the Dutch can build the wonder and catch up on colonies. We should make this one available late enough so that they get a good chance of building it.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Austria should have a wonder based on music. All I can think of is Mozart, Salzburg, the 1st and 2nd Viennese Schools of music, and opera. Can we use another culture wonder like Salzburg: 2+ extra culture per artist permanent 3+ attitude from all leaders, friendly nations more likely to vassalize.
As for Poland, how about Copernicus's Revolution (enable free religion, 200% science in that city)?

 

[merijn_v1]

More like +1 health with cow or +2 culture rather than gold. As far as I understand the the culture is more then the profit here. Anyway, I am against this one.



How come we did not include this one already. It looks as must have. Lowering corp payment seems OP, the it will be very hard for the Dutch to get a corporation (contradicts both their late start and their UHV) and if someone else gets it, the corporations will be too overpowered (I think they are overpowered now). Go with the Wall Street effect, +100% in this city, I don't remember if we have such a wonder yet.




I like this one. +1 or +2 happiness or +25% culture or something like that.



+50% trade yield is OP (combined with the Dutch UP). I think we already have +2 commerce per water tile effect. +2 gold will not be much since the Dutch will only have a few cities.

How about Space Elevator effect, faster colony construction, so that the Dutch can build the wonder and catch up on colonies. We should make this one available late enough so that they get a good chance of building it.

I think you don't get it as I meant. These are WORLD wonders, so everybody can build them, not just the Dutch. And with their starting situation, I don't think they build these very often, so the other Civs can build them as well. And then they fit it better IMO.


Power changes:
Cheese Market:
How about +1 for cow (and maybe sheep) in all cities? Or the same with happiness.
A'dam Stock Exchange:
IMO it must get something with corporations. So it may reduce the corporation payments with 25% or 10% or something.
Tulip Mania:
We already have a happiness wonder (Notre Dame). And down this post you can see why I prefer not to give it a culture bonus.
A'dam Harbor:
It isn't OP for the Dutch IMO. They don't have many cities, so they also don't have many trade routes. And for the other Civs it isn't to OP IMO. You have many yeildbonus buildings in RFCE and the max income I get from a single trade route is about 8. With this power you will get between +0.5 - +1 per city. I don't think that's too OP.

Another reproposal:
Rembrandts masterpiece: The Night Watch (Dutch: De Nachtwacht)
+1 happiness and +10% or +25% in all cities. (and maybe another +25% in the city its build)

 

[BurnEmDown]

I think each civ's wonder's bonus should be more helpful to the civ then other civs, but that other civs can build them as well (just like Shrine of Uppsala is wonderful in Copenhagen and Belem Tower is very good for Portugal and Marco Polo is also very good for Venice).
For Poland I think the one that was proposed some time ago, with the rules that protect Jews.
It's effect could be to allow Judaism to spread faster, even in cities with other religions, and maybe less time to build Jewish Quarters?
Sounds like it could help Poland With it's many cities which require money, and also other civs could use the bonus this Wonder provides (except for Spain of course and maybe Arabia).

 

[Wessel V1]

I think that La Mezquita should be toned down a bit, because it often makes Arabia unrealistically powerful in the late game. They earn so much money because of the wonder that they can research at a high level even though they have a large empire, and they can pay lots of units. Maybe we should lower the benefits to 1 gold for each religious building, like the Monastery of Cluny, and/or make it obsolete with an early Renaissance tech?

 

[jessiecat]

Of the proposed wonders sugested so far I'd be very much in favour of the following;

Netherlands-1. The Stock Exchange (replaces Wall Street)

..................- 2. Rembrandt's Masterpieces

Poland ..........- Copernicus Revolution

Austria...........- Mozart's Concertos

Hungary..........- Buda Castle

England..........- The Tower of London (replaces Scotland Yard) - National Wonder

I think everybody should bear in mind that while we can always get suitable screen art for new wonders it's a lot harder to find suitable buildings to represent them. There isn't really much left in the downloads database.

 

[operafantom]

For Hungary maybe the Bibliotheca Corviniana, created by King Mathias Corvinus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthias_Corvinus_of_Hungary
'In 1489, Bartolomeo della Fonte of Florence wrote that Lorenzo de Medici founded his own Greek-Latin library encouraged by the example of the Hungarian king'
from the article
So it was great and also influenced others as well to follow it. And it is nice
EDIT: picture

 

[operafantom]

Or maybe it is better as world wonder?

 

[JediClemente]

OK, had some few games of RFCE again.

Wonders are okay, just as they were. Colonial projects seem fine. I don't see how to improve them, love them as they are. And the AI builds them!

A minor issue: some of them, like Philippines, are recognised by the game as national instead of world projects.

I have three main concerns:

* The few Reinassance wonders. Back then I looked for interesting models 'round here, such as Florence's Duomo, which would have been nice. No such luck. I'd still add a dutch (Amsterdam Bourse was suggested) and scientific-related (Newton, Galileo...) wonder.

* Related to that, the Reinassance Art tech comes a bit late in the tech tree, which is BTW too slow to research (the whole tech tree, not just that tech) sometimes, even controlling Monastery of Cluny. Maybe the RFC "giga-empires tech penalty" should be lowered.

* Byzantines or Arabs founding an economic corporation/military order is very distracting.

And one more thing. I still don't know how Topkapi works (!).

 

[Michael Vick]

We need more Cathedral Type Wonders, I feel that there isn't enough religious construction going on in the game.

Other Suggestions

La Torre del Oro: (Seville)
Allowed by Arabic Knowledge
x hammers, double production speed with stone
+4 culture, +4 gold for every colony/ +50% defense for cities on river tiles.
(When it was first built, there was another tower on the other side of the Guadalquivir, when the Christians invaded, a chain was stretched from each tower to defend Seville from any navy sailing up the river. Although the city was taken, the moors successfully kept out the Spanish navy. In Spanish times, it was used to store gold coming from the New World.)
The benefit provided would depend on wether you'd want the wonder to be intended for Cordoba in the early game or the Spanish in the mid-game.

Amalienborg: (Copenhagen)
Allowed by a late tech of some sort
x hammers, double production speed with stone or marble
+8 culture, no stability penalty for losing cities
(Became the Danish Royal Residence after the Christiansborg palace was burnt down, symbolizing the stability after losing the original capitol building or something like that. It was built in 1750, maybe a tad too late, but the Norse are a bit short on wonders)

Mosteiro dos Jeronimos: (Lisbon)
Allowed by Astronomy
x hammers
+6 culture, +4 experience for all naval units or free strength 2 promotions
(Built in 1502 after the success of Vasco de Gama's expedition, it was dedicated to sailors and navigators of Portugal who often came there to pray before departing on their voyage)

Some church suggestions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Seville
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachen_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminister_Abbey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Ahmed_Mosque

 

[jessiecat]

Of the proposed wonders sugested so far I'd be very much in favour of the following;

Netherlands-1. The Stock Exchange (replaces Wall Street)

..................- 2. Rembrandt's Masterpieces

Poland ..........- Copernicus Revolution

Austria...........- Mozart's Concertos

Hungary..........- Buda Castle

England..........- The Tower of London (replaces Scotland Yard) - National Wonder

I think everybody should bear in mind that while we can always get suitable screen art for new wonders it's a lot harder to find suitable buildings to represent them. There isn't really much left in the downloads database.

I've already proposed these, esp. for those civs which are not represented by any wonder. Any comments?

 

[Michael Vick]

I like the stock exchange, Buda Castle, and Tower of London ideas, I'm just opposed to the "people" wonders. If it were up to me, I'd keep those to minimum. What do you think of my suggestions?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Still don't have one for Austria, so unless you want to make a super opera house a wonder, Mozart seems a good choice.

 

[jessiecat]

I like the stock exchange, Buda Castle, and Tower of London ideas, I'm just opposed to the "people" wonders. If it were up to me, I'd keep those to minimum. What do you think of my suggestions?

They're OK, though maybe unknown to most people. Also, I'm not sure we need more wonders giving happiness and culture esp. more religious buildings. I partially agree with you about people wonders though I think we should at least include Mozart for Austria and Copernicus for Poland.

 

[Michael Vick]

Right, but remember, we already have Leonardo's Inventions and Marco Polo's Embassy. Another People wonder we could put in is Columbus's voyage, provides a free colony?