RFC Europe Wonders

[jessiecat]

I had something similiar in mind, regarding the effects. I'm sure there are engineering academies even in Paris or Copenhagen, although in RFC they're few of the least productive capital cities in all of Europe.
So, not only percental bonus but solid effects as well. I like the suggestion.

Maybe we can work out something out of this. Should we keep this discussion in this thread or nominate a new thread for brainstorming for the new GP buildings?

I like 3Miro's idea. It could also be applied to other Great People as well as in the settled Great Spy founding its own building, as has already been mentioned.
As for starting yet another thread, I think we should keep the discussion here. There are so many threads already. Soon we'll end up with sub-threads within threads within sub-forums. Enough already!!

 

[Cethegus]

I like 3Miro's idea. It could also be applied to other Great People as well as in the settled Great Spy founding its own building, as has already been mentioned.
As for starting yet another thread, I think we should keep the discussion here. There are so many threads already. Soon we'll end up with sub-threads within threads within sub-forums. Enough already!!

Good point. So, is the general idea here that the possible Engineering Academy (I like the idea) would be a GP building or a building that can be built after settling an engineer in the city? Is the latter even possible to code?

As it is, I think +5 solid hammers and +25% production would a good addition. Should it be a national wonder or like Academies (perhaps they should be renamed), available to be built in any city you like by a GP? There is a National Gallery national wonder, after all.

 

[Whitefire]

Is The Silk Road slated for a Colony project? If not, it would be nice to have it added in. It's effect would be to rush the spawn of certain new resources in your territory.

 

[micbic]

In the fashion of the Engineering Academy, some other buildings could be...

Art Academy: +50% Culture, Foreign nations get a +1 modifier(?)
Trade Center: +50% Economy in the city, +3 food

 

[st.lucifer]

Is The Silk Road slated for a Colony project? If not, it would be nice to have it added in. It's effect would be to rush the spawn of certain new resources in your territory.

The Silk Road is represented by the silk plantations next to Damascus and Aleppo, representing the terminii of that trade route. The idea was that small amounts of silk would be available on the map, but would require either being friendly enough with Arabia (surprisingly possible, even with a -14 modifier - this should probably be fixed) to convince them to trade, or forming an unstable crusader state with port access. Silks are also available as a colonial resource, late in the game.

 

[Whitefire]

How about Marco Polo's expedition?

 

[st.lucifer]

How about Marco Polo's expedition?

Makes sense to me. Come up with a function, and I doubt anyone will object to its inclusion.

 

[micbic]

Makes sense to me. Come up with a function, and I doubt anyone will object to its inclusion.

Is it technically possible to use them as corporations instead of colonial projects?

 

[3Miro]

Could be Project/Wonder, corporation and/or UHV (create x merchant by year y). That is part of the Dutch UHV, but either way.

 

[jessiecat]

How about Marco Polo's expedition?

What about it? I know it is in all our Western history books and part of our shared Euro-centric folk history. Sort of like Columbus "discovering" America. But was he the first European to travel to China? No. And hardly the first person. Arab traders had been travelling regularly to China for centuries. Who kept open the Silk Road after the decline of the Romans anyway? It may have re-awokened interest in the East in Venice and Christian Europe for a short period but even that contact was soon to be broken by the Seljuk and Mongol invasions which closed that avenue of trade with China foreever. Hence the need to find an alternate route to India and the Spice Islands which prompted the explorations of the Portugese and Spanish. How did Marco Polo contribute to that? Not much aside to a brief consumer interest in exotic imports and a flurry of media hype. Hardly qualifies as as GP or a Wonder. Maybe a short-term Venetian trading company at best. (Which expires in 1500?).

 

[3Miro]

jessiecat is the expert so I go with him. Under the circumstances we should make Marco Polo a Great Artist that gives cultural boost with his great work

 

[st.lucifer]

Is it technically possible to use them as corporations instead of colonial projects?

We had plans/ideas for corporations already proposed, but they're going to be one of the last things we tackle. The widely accepted proposal involved replacing corporations with monastic orders, banking families, and military orders.



Actually, though, since you bring it up - it would make sense to make 'found X corporation' one of the UHV conditions for the Dutch, Venetians, Genoans, English, and/or others, depending on which ones we choose.

 

[jessiecat]

jessiecat is the expert so I go with him. Under the circumstances we should make Marco Polo a Great Artist that gives cultural boost with his great work

Perhaps I was a little dismissive of the idea. And I am certainly no expert. Just a history guy with opinions. Marco Polo and his family were important in reestablishing Eastern trade contacts that had been lost in the Dark Ages. As were several other families at the time. I think its right to make him a Great Artist as his explorations certainly added to European culture and knowlege of China and India at the time. In fact I'm surprised he's not on our GP list already.

 

[Whitefire]

Makes sense to me. Come up with a function, and I doubt anyone will object to its inclusion.

Same function that I mentioned for the Silk Road. Resources inside of your cultural boundaries spawn immediately, instead of waiting for the spawn dates.

 

[Cethegus]

Actually, though, since you bring it up - it would make sense to make 'found X corporation' one of the UHV conditions for the Dutch, Venetians, Genoans, English, and/or others, depending on which ones we choose.

I like that idea. One question though: Having read Don Rosa's comics I know there was sort of a Templar financial empire around the time of the crusades and I was wondering... could the founding of a certain "corporation" be bound to time and nation much like it is already in the case of Yerushalayim and Judaism in regular RFC? If we don't ditch the idea of including the Templar "corporation" in the game (I'm no expert on the case though), it could very well require materials found in the Arab lands and thus encourage starting the Crusades. If the owner of the corporation could be predestined as Papal States unless some other civilization founds them first (IIRC their HQ was in Paris, France), this would perhaps make it a lot more tempting for the Roman Church to pressure other nations into the crusades. However, this leaves wide in the open the question should the corporation spawn at a certain date by itself if the Papal States was played by a human player.

Templar Corporation:
- predestined spawn date in Rome, France should be able to compete for them
- should require resources that are found in the Middle-East
- not a necessary addition

 

[st.lucifer]

I like that idea. One question though: Having read Don Rosa's comics I know there was sort of a Templar financial empire around the time of the crusades and I was wondering... could the founding of a certain "corporation" be bound to time and nation much like it is already in the case of Yerushalayim and Judaism in regular RFC? If we don't ditch the idea of including the Templar "corporation" in the game (I'm no expert on the case though), it could very well require materials found in the Arab lands and thus encourage starting the Crusades. If the owner of the corporation could be predestined as Papal States unless some other civilization founds them first (IIRC their HQ was in Paris, France), this would perhaps make it a lot more tempting for the Roman Church to pressure other nations into the crusades. However, this leaves wide in the open the question should the corporation spawn at a certain date by itself if the Papal States was played by a human player.

Templar Corporation:
- predestined spawn date in Rome, France should be able to compete for them
- should require resources that are found in the Middle-East
- not a necessary addition

The Templars were one of the corporations on our list, don't worry. No corporation would have a predestined spawn date - there were Templars from and in every major Western power at the time, so any of them could realistically have a claim on the organization.


I'm going to wait to make up a thread on corporation replacements, because there's already a lot going on and a lot done with the topic already.

 

[Cethegus]

Alright, thanks. I just thought it would make sense for the Papal States to claim it, because of them being a major player in getting the Crusades going and all. Other than that, there's reason why the Papal States should have a "monopoly" over them.

But yes, you have a good point. There's a perfectly good reason for all nations to have an equal standing when it comes to the Templars.

By the way, when we're still talking about the Papal States I have a question regarding the Papal States' special position among the Christian nations. If the PS controls the Church of the Nativity and has recognized Catholicism as its state religion, could its special position be represented so that if a Catholic nation declares war on the controller of the Catholic holy building (if the controller is Catholic as well) [difference between PS and Arabs], the diplomatic penalty that results from starting the war could be bound to the holy building itself and the state religion instead of the Papal States specifically? I suggested a different purpose for the Papal UHV in the Papal States thread and I wondered if the holy buildings could be given more importance among the followers of the same faith in RFCE.

 

[mitsho]

Trade Center: +50% Economy in the city, +3 food

What is a Trade Center? I suggest "Trade Fair" as the name for the thing, makes more sense

 

[st.lucifer]

Same function that I mentioned for the Silk Road. Resources inside of your cultural boundaries spawn immediately, instead of waiting for the spawn dates.

That's a cool proposal, but it would definitely be of limited use for most civs. While potatoes and rice will be available on the map post-colonization, there aren't any late-spawning luxury resources. We could potentially make it so that a random forest in the builder's territory adds silk, and a random river grassland gets rice.


Jessiecat, your points about Polo's expedition are valid, although it's important to note that he made the journey during the Pax Mongolica - the subsequent breakup of the Mongol empire was what cut the silk road forever. Still, the symbolism of the journey and the fact that it was well-chronicled is important, and Whitefire's proposed wonder isn't too powerful. We could make similar arguments for inclusion of a Journey of Ibn Batutta wonder or project, which could grant access to different resources (perhaps spices and something else?) than Polo's expedition.

Certainly, both Marco Polo and Ibn Battuta should be included as great merchants.

 

[sedna17]

I'm going to start adding in some of the easy/uncontroversial wonders from Jessiecat's latest list. This is a going to take a while.

I thought it would be useful to have the information on colonial projects posted in this thread too. As I understand it (please correct me), Cornelio has posted this suggestion for how colonial projects work:

A new list, shrunk to 10 colonies.

West India Company (National)
----Precondition for WIC colonies
East India Company (National)
----Precondition for EIC colonies

WIC
Gold Coast
----4 slaves, 2 gold
Ivory Coast
----4 ivory, 2 slaves
Cuban Plantations (100% building with slaves)
----4 tobacco, 2 coffee
Brazil (100% building with slaves)
----4 sugar, 2 tobacco
Hudson bay company
----6 fur

EIC
Far Eastern Treaty Port (National)
----1 tea
Indian Trading Post (National)
----1 silk
East Indies (100% building with slaves)
----4 spices, 2 coffee
Malaysia (100% building with slaves)
----4 sugar, 2 spice
Cape Town
----4 wine, ???? +1 stability for EIC colonies????

6 slaves
2 gold
4 ivory
6 tobacco
4 coffee
8 sugar
6 fur
6 spices
4 wine
tea and silk are national

All regions are in (N-America, S-America, Caribbean, W-Africa, S-Africa, India, East Indies, China)

St. Lucifer was interested in developing his own list and then we'd combine these ideas, and I think we're still waiting on this. It would be useful to get these colonial projects settled and coded so that we can add in some more UHVs.