blizzrd
Micromanager
I totally agree with all of the above.
RFC is dead, long live RFC
- Thread starter AnotherPacifist
- Start date
I totally agree with all of the above.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
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Anton's ideas are actually good: I hate always being Elizabeth or Bismarck when I should truly be Churchill or other non-warmongers. This would require incorporating new figureheads but there are lots of mods out there.
blizzrd
Micromanager
In my opinion Churchill was one of history's most well-pronounced warmongers.
I'm not the only one to think this either.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5790
Panopticon
Utilitarian
That looks like the most left-wing serious forum I've seen on the Internet. Churchill didn't start WWII, that was Hitler AFAIR.
blizzrd
Micromanager
I agree with you Panopticon. But let's compare say Chamberlain with Churchill and you would have to agree that Churchill was a very serious warmonger compared to Neville pussyfoot Chamberlain.
blizzrd
Micromanager
This is exactly why I like these UHV conditions.
Not all, but certainly some of the UHV conditions are a tight puzzle. But there may still be some flexibility in solving them, the challenge is to perhaps think outside some of your "usual" strategies to do so.
Fierabras
Emperor
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I would suggest to watch the last episode of Simon Schama's A History of Brittain: The Two Winstons for a better understanding of Churchill's personality; not so much a warmonger, but a freedom fighter...
After reading this, I thought that it would be cool if the Unique Power of the civilization was leader dependent, or in the case of single leader civs, choosable.
For example, instead of Carthage having the Power of Mercenaries, Hannibal could choose to have the power of the Ambush; which would provide with a chance of a first strike or some other benefit.
I think an idea I have had for a while, could work. We all know the Unique Historical Victories.... But what about Non-Historical Victories:
Ex) Persia
1) Win Battle of Marathon (capture all of Greece by __ B.C.)
2) Colonize the Italian Peninsula (one city before Rome starts)*
3) Prove you are a God King (Win 4 wars by ___ B.C.)
*When Rome is founded, they will start with 50% Persian culture over the area.
The reason I focused on Persia in Europe was because if Persia successfully defeated the Greeks, Western culture as we know it would be primarily Persian instead of Roman and Greek. I would love to read a book or see a movie of a fake documentary on what if this happened. (Just like Harry Turtledove's Timeline-191 Series.)
Ex) Arabia
1) Conquer/ Capitulate/ Vassalize Aztecs (with unique city names)
2) Bring the Fight to The Enemy (Capture/Raze 4 cities of French, English,
German and/or Roman control by 1400 A.D.)
3) The Sun Never Sets on the Arabian Empire (Found and control 3 cities on
. every Continent by ___ A.D.
That would Temporarily Resurrect Rhye's.
Also, I would love to see RF: Fertile Crescent:
A fair sized map that stretches from the Indus Valley to where Modern Day Carthage is (with a slightly compacted Mediterranean Sea.) The Civs would be the Sumerians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Hittites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Persians, Greeks, etc. (Not filling out the current civ cap. This would be smaller version of RFC.
I don't expect to ever see it, but it is just a fantasy of mine.
But here is an idea that seems fairly reasonable to make:
Make the civs that spawn be able to be altered civs. So for example, the Romans could be the Etruscans, with the capital of Velzna (Orvieto). The Malinese sould start as Songhai or Ghana.
These would be the Generic names, shown on the scoreboard. Possibly, the city name map could be a little different, and minor adjustments with the UHVs. Also, when you start as any civ that has two or more Generic names, such as the ones above, there could be a brief overview of how the Empire started. Like in Fiebras' idea.
But it would be random. Say you choose to start as Rome, you may possibly be the Etruscans.
Ex) After a failed attempt by the Barbarians to the South who tried to overthrow our great confederation, we have razed their city, and the Etruscan League shall here on out be the Mighty Empire of Etruria. (or something like that. To south of Velzna, there would be city ruins.
Hope I could help.
Ex) Persia
1) Win Battle of Marathon (capture all of Greece by __ B.C.)
2) Colonize the Italian Peninsula (one city before Rome starts)*
3) Prove you are a God King (Win 4 wars by ___ B.C.)
*When Rome is founded, they will start with 50% Persian culture over the area.
The reason I focused on Persia in Europe was because if Persia successfully defeated the Greeks, Western culture as we know it would be primarily Persian instead of Roman and Greek. I would love to read a book or see a movie of a fake documentary on what if this happened. (Just like Harry Turtledove's Timeline-191 Series.)
Ex) Arabia
1) Conquer/ Capitulate/ Vassalize Aztecs (with unique city names)
2) Bring the Fight to The Enemy (Capture/Raze 4 cities of French, English,
German and/or Roman control by 1400 A.D.)
3) The Sun Never Sets on the Arabian Empire (Found and control 3 cities on
. every Continent by ___ A.D.
That would Temporarily Resurrect Rhye's.
Also, I would love to see RF: Fertile Crescent:
A fair sized map that stretches from the Indus Valley to where Modern Day Carthage is (with a slightly compacted Mediterranean Sea.) The Civs would be the Sumerians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Hittites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Persians, Greeks, etc. (Not filling out the current civ cap. This would be smaller version of RFC.
I don't expect to ever see it, but it is just a fantasy of mine.
But here is an idea that seems fairly reasonable to make:
Make the civs that spawn be able to be altered civs. So for example, the Romans could be the Etruscans, with the capital of Velzna (Orvieto). The Malinese sould start as Songhai or Ghana.
These would be the Generic names, shown on the scoreboard. Possibly, the city name map could be a little different, and minor adjustments with the UHVs. Also, when you start as any civ that has two or more Generic names, such as the ones above, there could be a brief overview of how the Empire started. Like in Fiebras' idea.
But it would be random. Say you choose to start as Rome, you may possibly be the Etruscans.
Ex) After a failed attempt by the Barbarians to the South who tried to overthrow our great confederation, we have razed their city, and the Etruscan League shall here on out be the Mighty Empire of Etruria. (or something like that. To south of Velzna, there would be city ruins.
Hope I could help.
Antons idea is indeed a good one but It does nothing to help with RAND. I cant help but feel Rhye can do something here which can BOTH expand RFC and help blanace RAND.
Basically it the same as my idea have 9 or so UHV's. However the problem with Antons idea is you need to select which leader and hence which UHV you want to go for before the game starts.
This might seem like a good idea to the puzzle fanatic amongst us but again does not take into account the starting conditions in RFC or in RAND.
One of the most frustrating things about RFC is starting a game were you clearly cant make the UHV and then having to start again. The starting conditions in RAND even more different.
What is needed is the ability to choose you UHV or quests to fit in with the conditions that have been presented. The easiest way of doing this would be to have 9 UHV for each civ and you have to complete 3 of them, therefore you would choose the 3UHV that fit with your starting conditions.
For instance Anton suggest "Alexander would have militaristic goals", I would assume one of these would be conqueror the Persian empire + Egypt.
As usual you would have the problem that if you start the game and Persia + Egypt are very strong and advanced you might have no chance of doing this.
What would be better is if you could then choose to go for "Pericles" scientific + culture goals when you realise this.
Basically it the same as my idea have 9 or so UHV's. However the problem with Antons idea is you need to select which leader and hence which UHV you want to go for before the game starts.
This might seem like a good idea to the puzzle fanatic amongst us but again does not take into account the starting conditions in RFC or in RAND.
One of the most frustrating things about RFC is starting a game were you clearly cant make the UHV and then having to start again. The starting conditions in RAND even more different.
What is needed is the ability to choose you UHV or quests to fit in with the conditions that have been presented. The easiest way of doing this would be to have 9 UHV for each civ and you have to complete 3 of them, therefore you would choose the 3UHV that fit with your starting conditions.
For instance Anton suggest "Alexander would have militaristic goals", I would assume one of these would be conqueror the Persian empire + Egypt.
As usual you would have the problem that if you start the game and Persia + Egypt are very strong and advanced you might have no chance of doing this.
What would be better is if you could then choose to go for "Pericles" scientific + culture goals when you realise this.
anton_26
Chieftain
Ok, I agree with you. But wouldn't it make the game too easy. Like if you try to achieve some three UHVs but you fail them, you could try some other ones after that. Or have I misunderstood your suggestion somehow?
Possibly yes one way round this would be to make UHVs sequential as someone else pointed out.
So three could be military, three scientific and three religous/exploration/wonder and you would have to get the one of the last ones to win.
This means you would be unlikely to get the last one if you started down another route but at least you would be pushed down one route by your starting choices and conditions rather than your having to force your empire to go in a direction that doesnt make sense for the starting conditions.
So Greeks Could be.
Military
1. Capture Babylon
2. Capture/Vassalise Egypt + Persia
3. Found/Capture a city in India *
Scientific
1. Be first to discover Literature
2. Be first to discover Drama
3. Be first to discover Philosophy *
Construction
1. Build Oracle + Temple of Artemis
2. Build Parthenon
3. Build Collosus *
As previously mentioned by Rod I think one could lead on to the other so you would need to get a final (starred) UHV to win.
Or you could do something like If you could get 6 overall then you win as well but you would need to do then in order. Ie this could win
1. Capture Babylon
2. Capture/Vassalise Egypt + Persia
1. Be first to discover Literature
2. Be first to discover Drama
1. Build Oracle + Temple of Artemis
2. Build Partheon
So three could be military, three scientific and three religous/exploration/wonder and you would have to get the one of the last ones to win.
This means you would be unlikely to get the last one if you started down another route but at least you would be pushed down one route by your starting choices and conditions rather than your having to force your empire to go in a direction that doesnt make sense for the starting conditions.
So Greeks Could be.
Military
1. Capture Babylon
2. Capture/Vassalise Egypt + Persia
3. Found/Capture a city in India *
Scientific
1. Be first to discover Literature
2. Be first to discover Drama
3. Be first to discover Philosophy *
Construction
1. Build Oracle + Temple of Artemis
2. Build Parthenon
3. Build Collosus *
As previously mentioned by Rod I think one could lead on to the other so you would need to get a final (starred) UHV to win.
Or you could do something like If you could get 6 overall then you win as well but you would need to do then in order. Ie this could win
1. Capture Babylon
2. Capture/Vassalise Egypt + Persia
1. Be first to discover Literature
2. Be first to discover Drama
1. Build Oracle + Temple of Artemis
2. Build Partheon
BurnEmDown
Emperor
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- 1,718
The Scientific and Construction are too easy, unless you only gave them as examples of how UHVs should be split.
Also not every civ had great Militaristic past, take Portugal for example. Altho I could think of some UHVs for them:
Found X colonies outside of Europe by X-AD
First to found a colony in SAm.
First to circumnavigate around the globe.
First to found a colony in Africa?\India\Eastern-Asia?
Maybe spread Christianity to Y/X of colonies founded outside of europe.
Then it could be split as colonizing and exploring UHVs:
Colonizing
Found X colonies outside of Europe by X-AD
Maybe spread Christianity to Y/X of colonies founded outside of europe.
To be decided.
Exploring
First to circumnavigate around the globe.
First to found a colony in SAm.
First to found a colony in Africa?\India\Eastern-Asia?
I guess this could be done to all civs, but there will still be some difficulties thinking about UHVs for some of the smaller civs (Mali, Ethiopia, Maya, Inca, Khmer).
Also not every civ had great Militaristic past, take Portugal for example. Altho I could think of some UHVs for them:
Found X colonies outside of Europe by X-AD
First to found a colony in SAm.
First to circumnavigate around the globe.
First to found a colony in Africa?\India\Eastern-Asia?
Maybe spread Christianity to Y/X of colonies founded outside of europe.
Then it could be split as colonizing and exploring UHVs:
Colonizing
Found X colonies outside of Europe by X-AD
Maybe spread Christianity to Y/X of colonies founded outside of europe.
To be decided.
Exploring
First to circumnavigate around the globe.
First to found a colony in SAm.
First to found a colony in Africa?\India\Eastern-Asia?
I guess this could be done to all civs, but there will still be some difficulties thinking about UHVs for some of the smaller civs (Mali, Ethiopia, Maya, Inca, Khmer).
Yes there just examples ! obviously the whole idea could pretty much be changed.
The main concept is this which everyone seems to be missing
"To reward historically inspired behavior while allowing the player to choose which route to go down based on the starting conditions hopefully with the side effect of making the UHVs more relevant for RAND"
The main concept is this which everyone seems to be missing
"To reward historically inspired behavior while allowing the player to choose which route to go down based on the starting conditions hopefully with the side effect of making the UHVs more relevant for RAND"
you could easily add some military ones for portugal
1. Capture a city in India (like goa)
2. Conquer North Africa ie Morocco Algeria Tunisia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alcácer_Quibir
3. Defeat the Spanish !
1. Capture a city in India (like goa)
2. Conquer North Africa ie Morocco Algeria Tunisia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alcácer_Quibir
3. Defeat the Spanish !
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
German set
MILITARISTIC
Control Milan and Rome in 1000 AD.
Vassalize Turkey or Vikings by 1850 AD.
What else: Control by vassalage or conquest all Europe by 1950 AD!!!
SCIENTIFIC
Research Printing Press by 1400 AD.
Research Liberalism by 1650 AD.
Build 5 Universities by 1700 AD.
GROWTH-BUILD UP
Build 3 coastal cities by 1500 AD.
Control at least 8 10-sized cities by 1900 AD.
Be the first to build 6 factories.
CHALLENGES (a new idea)
Do not found ANY colonies before 1900 AD (If you found, capture or get by councils even ONE city outside of Europe before 1900 AD, you have...FAILED)
MILITARISTIC
Control Milan and Rome in 1000 AD.
Vassalize Turkey or Vikings by 1850 AD.
What else: Control by vassalage or conquest all Europe by 1950 AD!!!
SCIENTIFIC
Research Printing Press by 1400 AD.
Research Liberalism by 1650 AD.
Build 5 Universities by 1700 AD.
GROWTH-BUILD UP
Build 3 coastal cities by 1500 AD.
Control at least 8 10-sized cities by 1900 AD.
Be the first to build 6 factories.
CHALLENGES (a new idea)
Do not found ANY colonies before 1900 AD (If you found, capture or get by councils even ONE city outside of Europe before 1900 AD, you have...FAILED)
English set
Millitary
1 Capture NE France by XXXX
2 Make sure there are no Dutch cities in South Arfrica by XXXX
3 Control all the areas of the Commonwealth.
Navy
1 Build 12 destroyers by 19XX
2 Sink X ships
3 Have the worlds largest Navy by XXXX
Can think of another one...
Maybe if you complete the challenge you get some type of reward other than a UHV requirment.
Millitary
1 Capture NE France by XXXX
2 Make sure there are no Dutch cities in South Arfrica by XXXX
3 Control all the areas of the Commonwealth.
Navy
1 Build 12 destroyers by 19XX
2 Sink X ships
3 Have the worlds largest Navy by XXXX
Can think of another one...
Maybe if you complete the challenge you get some type of reward other than a UHV requirment.
BurnEmDown
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,718
For English set how about just capture a city in France instead of NE France?
Also why Liberalism for Germany? I thought the "first civ to discover" it was France.
For English Control all areas of the commonwealth should be in "colonization" set, replaced by maybe "conquer or vassalize America by X-AD". In the new colonization set add the commonwealth thing, also be the first civ to have a size 7-10? city in NAm, and maybe first civ to adopt commonwealth? If not then first civ to research a certain tech I guess.
Rome:
Military
1 city in England, 3 in France, 2 in Spain, 2 in Carthage by X-AD
2 in Greece, 1 in Anatolia, 1 in Egypt and 1 in mid-east by X-AD
No cities lost to barbarians or Celts by X-AD
Culture
Make Rome the most cultural city in the world by X-AD
Build the Colloseum, the Leaning statue and (add wonder here) by X-AD
Found Christianity
Cant think of another.
Spanish
Military
Control or Vassalize Portugal and one other old-world civ of your choice by X-AD
Control or Vassalize 2 New world civs by X-AD
No European cities in the Americas by X-AD
Colonization
Be the first civ to found a city in America
Can't think of anything else that would be too easy or too cliche :\
America
Military
No European cities in Nam by X-AD
Conquer or Vassalize 2-4? old world civs by X-AD
Never lose a city by X-AD?
OR build Pentagon, SoL and UN by X-AD
Culture
Build Hollywood, Graceland and Broadway (and UN?) by X-AD
Make one of your cities 5th\4th\3rd\2nd\1st? position in cultural list by X-AD
Can't think of another one
Science
First civ to research Flight, Electricity Mass Media by X-AD
First civ to research Computers, Internet and Plastics by X-AD
First civ to research Future tech by X-AD
Thinking about UHVs is fun
although Some of mine aren't very original :\
Also why Liberalism for Germany? I thought the "first civ to discover" it was France.
For English Control all areas of the commonwealth should be in "colonization" set, replaced by maybe "conquer or vassalize America by X-AD". In the new colonization set add the commonwealth thing, also be the first civ to have a size 7-10? city in NAm, and maybe first civ to adopt commonwealth? If not then first civ to research a certain tech I guess.
Rome:
Military
1 city in England, 3 in France, 2 in Spain, 2 in Carthage by X-AD
2 in Greece, 1 in Anatolia, 1 in Egypt and 1 in mid-east by X-AD
No cities lost to barbarians or Celts by X-AD
Culture
Make Rome the most cultural city in the world by X-AD
Build the Colloseum, the Leaning statue and (add wonder here) by X-AD
Found Christianity
Cant think of another.
Spanish
Military
Control or Vassalize Portugal and one other old-world civ of your choice by X-AD
Control or Vassalize 2 New world civs by X-AD
No European cities in the Americas by X-AD
Colonization
Be the first civ to found a city in America
Can't think of anything else that would be too easy or too cliche :\
America
Military
No European cities in Nam by X-AD
Conquer or Vassalize 2-4? old world civs by X-AD
Never lose a city by X-AD?
OR build Pentagon, SoL and UN by X-AD
Culture
Build Hollywood, Graceland and Broadway (and UN?) by X-AD
Make one of your cities 5th\4th\3rd\2nd\1st? position in cultural list by X-AD
Can't think of another one
Science
First civ to research Flight, Electricity Mass Media by X-AD
First civ to research Computers, Internet and Plastics by X-AD
First civ to research Future tech by X-AD
Thinking about UHVs is fun
although Some of mine aren't very original :\
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
@burnemdown: Liberalism is the prerequiste to Free Religion, which was set in Germany after the Westphalia treaty (1648)
BurnEmDown
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
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:O I thought Free religion wasn't present in Europe until the french Revolution
I guess I'd better go learn some history.
I guess I'd better go learn some history.
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