RFC RAND UHV Discussions

Zdarg

Prince
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
515
Location
Novosibirsk, Russia
Something that just occurred to me when playing the English...
Since there are now several UHVs that involve some distance from your capital, wouldn't it just do to move your capital instead? With the English, found 15 european cities, then build a palace in america or something. And after the goal is fulfilled move it back to London. Would bring some stability issues, but possibly in your golden age.
Well, it might work, but I don't think that having 15 worthless cities in Europe is in any sense better or easier than having 15 cities in best places of your choice. And you even won't be able to give independence to most useless of them after getting UHV.
 

kbk

Prince
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
559
Location
Ohio
Something that just occurred to me when playing the English...
Since there are now several UHVs that involve some distance from your capital, wouldn't it just do to move your capital instead? With the English, found 15 european cities, then build a palace in america or something. And after the goal is fulfilled move it back to London. Would bring some stability issues, but possibly in your golden age.

It bears testing. It could be calculated in one of three ways:

20 squares from your spawn point
20 squares from your first city (and default capitol)
20 squares from your current capitol.

Test out moving the capitol and let us know.
 

brucedecatz

Warlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
157
Need more food and space for the Chinese. They either can't get decent city size or get someone spawn on top of them.

France and Arab seems doable in my tries. I think all the ancient civs need some bonuses, otherwise there is little hope that they can survive.
 

Phallus

Freudian Slip
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
605
Location
The magical realm of Essex
I've done fine as the Chinese so far, but then again the Mongols haven't spawned yet.

But yes, collapse is an issue. Every civ in 'Africa' collapsed (this was India, Angkor and Ethiopia so far) all thanks to loads of unnecessary barbarians.
 

thadian

Kami of Awakened Dreamers
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,288
Location
Indiana, USA
Is there a way to determine who will and wont spawn on differing map sizes? i have some saves from late game where america never spawned. Do standard games, i assume as having less civs, is there a way to determine who will spawn, or is all of that a suprise?
 

Barak

Emperor
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
1,517
Location
Chicago
Has anyone been able to get the French UHV? Even thoguh I settled 7 cities in the new world by 1760, I didn't get the 2nd requirement.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
I finally got a decent Dutch start and should have won in 1605, but even though I was first to found Kaapstadt in the Australian equivalent of my world, the 3rd criteria didn't light up (it's still bright 2/3). I should have suspected something since in RFC the criteria usually lights up the moment you found that Australian outpost. Here the code in RAND:

elif (iPlayer == iNetherlands):
if (self.getGoal(iNetherlands, 1) == -1):
#RFCRAND
if (iGameTurn <= i1760AD):
pPlot = gc.getMap().plot(city.getX(), city.getY())
if (pPlot.area().getNumCities() == 0 and pPlot.area().getNumTiles() >= 25):
self.setGoal(iNetherlands, 1, 1)
else:
self.setGoal(iNetherlands, 1, 0)


Here's the corresponding code in RFC:

elif (iPlayer == iNetherlands):
if (self.getGoal(iNetherlands, 1) == -1):
if (city.getX() >= tAustraliaTL[0] and city.getX() <= tAustraliaBR[0] and city.getY() >= tAustraliaTL[1] and city.getY() <= tAustraliaBR[1]):
bFirst = True
for iCiv in range(iNumPlayers):
if ((iCiv != iNetherlands)):
if (self.checkNotOwnedArea(iCiv, tAustraliaTL, tAustraliaBR) == False):
bFirst = False
#print ("bFirst = False", iCiv)
break
if (bFirst):
self.setGoal(iNetherlands, 1, 1)
else:
self.setGoal(iNetherlands, 1, 0)

So it seems that RFC first checks if a city is in Australia, then checks who founded it, and sets the goal to be true if it was Dutch; whereas RAND checks if the city is on an empty island greater than or equal to 25 tiles, and sets the goal to yes if so. So maybe pPlot.area().getNumCities() == 1 would work? (After all, it checks the criteria after you've founded that city)
Can somebody verify this?

I'll probably just play on with a spaceship victory (my world is chock-full of large empires which are tough to conquer, and true to my name, I want a peaceful victory, Aztecs and Mayans being the exception). I'm well prepared since I'm first to constitution, and was able to build the Mausoleum, i.e. the whole 17th century and half of 18th century is going to be my golden age, somewhat historically. :lol:
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
Nope, tried the ==1 thing and didn't work. Maybe we need to redefine a set of Australian functions for RAND (just like there's a set of America/New World functions defined elsewhere in the python code to work out if France has 7 New World cities or if Vikings are the first to found a city in America)?
 

brucedecatz

Warlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
157
Just played a long and very relaxed Japan game. It is too easy if Japan starts on a okayish island and managed to build the great lighthouse. Run pacifism+bureaucracy, monstrous capital. Circumnavigate, conqueror's event (did not bother, give the troops to all three American civs instead, within a few turns they all vassalised). GDP easily double the nearest competitor, and I am losing interest.

It seems at least the 2nd UHV needs to be changed, since it is nearly impossible to fail this goal.I suggest changing it to found Sushi and spread it to 10 countries. Therefore instead of just turtling and counting gold coins from trade the player at least has to do something in the late game. Plus, there is no UHV related to corporations yet, and this would make the game more complete.
 

onedreamer

Dragon
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
6,580
Location
Torino - Italia
some UHVs are just easier than others. It's not like Japan is hard even in RFC...
 

Barak

Emperor
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
1,517
Location
Chicago
I just succeeded with a French UHV victory. Granted it required me going back to 1757 and setling 2 extra settlers (9 cities total in the new world).
 

kbk

Prince
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
559
Location
Ohio
Turkey's first goal is pretty easy, but then it was in RFC.

"Control one other civilizations start area"

I did this when collapsed greek cities flipped to me on the third turn.

Turkey's second goal is incredibly cryptic.

"Control 3 cities in each of 4 different landmasses in 1700 AD"

I'm currently playing a Turkey game where I want to build towards a domination victory, so I haven't been worrying about the UHVs, but this goal is one I don't really follow.

In RFC you are supposed to have Greece and Mesopotamia and the black sea in 1700. Now from what I can tell you are supposed to have 3 cities in 4 different continents, but I'm not really sure here.

Do the Africa, Europe and Asia like continents in RAND count as separate land masses? Even if they do, the Turkish goal would require you to go colonize the America or Australia, since it asks for a fourth.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
Something that just occurred to me when playing the English...
Since there are now several UHVs that involve some distance from your capital, wouldn't it just do to move your capital instead? With the English, found 15 european cities, then build a palace in america or something. And after the goal is fulfilled move it back to London. Would bring some stability issues, but possibly in your golden age.

You're a genius if it works. In fact, the Russian UHV is much easier this way. Also, in real life, the capital was moved to St. Petersburg (a coastal city).

However, I think the code actually tallies at the time you found your city (i.e. it calculates whether that colony was founded at the appropriate distance with respect to your current capital). So unfortunately, it doesn't work for the Europeans. But it should work for the Aztecs, Incans, Americans and Ethiopians--just move your capital to a distant continent like Asia and Australia where the chances of a European settlement is much less.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
I just looked at the code for the Russian colony criteria. It seems Rhye may have made a typo, because the distance for those non-coastal cities away from the capital is only 5, not 15. (The Portuguese one, for example, does require a distance of 20).
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
Ethiopia, Japan and Maya are getting short changed. They start later and yet do not have the same number of settlers (2) as before. Ethiopia and Maya are currently impossible with regards to their 1st UHV criteria, because it simply takes too many beakers which one slow-growing capital cannot provide. (I had a great start as Ethiopia with stone and copper, and even built Stonehenge, but by the time barb camel archers showed up, I was still 25 moves from theology).
 

brucedecatz

Warlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
157
Ok, I am really winning my last Chinese UHV try. poped 3 techs (Writing(!), fishing and HBR, got a city with 2 golds (which solved all my early research) I worry about that city flipping to the Khmers when they are born, but it does not. The Russians did not flip my cities either. Now Persia is down on power and I am seriously going to invade him to get 3 more cities, none of which is great but reasonable enough, just after finishing the Wall.

Already have currency, monotheism, monarchy apart from all the required tech. Next one is code of laws to solve my finance. Got to watch the mercenary situation so Darius does not suddenly hire a bunch of big guys.

More coming if I actually win it.
 

civhelp121

Prince
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
397
Location
United States
one really strange thing happened to me. I was france and using the standard size map. Then I get a quest that tells me to build 17 libraries. That seems like an insane amount for a standard size map. I'd have to either colonize most of the new world (if not all) or conquer most of the old world. By then my stability would be shot from controlling all those core areas.

Another thing, every turn I keep getting a message from Russia demanding that I stop trading with the chinese. I always say no, and he always comes back the next turn to demand the same thing. This didn't happen on the regular rhyes and fall. Is it a glitch of some sort? because it is getting really annoying
 

Metal Alloy Man

Back in Black
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
761
I'm going to try the American one after I finish my English game, which is definetly doable.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
Lucky start (didn't use the worldbuilder at all) since I had marble in Sparta (landlocked), copper with Athens, and founded Confucianism with a goody hut! Without that it would have been very difficult since I needed one more tech to get the Great Wall and Colosseum. Rome was hemmed in by a settled great artist in Korinthos, which flipped Arretium to me long after we declared peace. I sent my 2 initial phalanxes around the world and conquered Babylon and India (to deter them from the Oracle), and actually declared war on Egypt but they had axemen already. Great Library is a must (gives you free great scientists). Bulbed lots of techs (including philosophy and optics).

I retrieved an autosave if anybody's interested.
 

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