Rfc++

[Vishaing]

I personally intend to complete this civic system, and then based on whether or not the stability system is implemented (which it looks like it will be if BOTH Blasphemous and Rhye like it) then I say we begin thinking of stability factors. it would probably be a good idea to start thinking of them now though, that way when the stability system hits it will be a simple thing to just add the values.

With absolute monarchy, I meant commerce to, I jsut put gold, sorry for any confusion .I'll just replace the ambiguous word Gold with a Gold coin! Yay for civ smilies.

Also, you are all right, there is entirely too much happiness in the Totalitarianism civcic. That will be toned down;

About representation, I agree it might be slightly underpowered, but I'm not sure what to give it to buff it up. Perhaps up the commerce per specialist to 2? Any ideas are always welcome.


current civics:

Despotism: (starting civic, upkeep: None, Stability: Yeah Right)
No Effects:

Oligarchy: (tech Priesthood: upkeep: low, Stability: +10/-80 "Stable")
+50% commerce and hammers in capital, +1 culture from Courthouse

Hereditary Rule: (tech: monarchy upkeep: low, Stability: +15/-50 "Very Stable")
+1 happiness per military unit in a city

Absolute Monarchy: (tech: Divine Right, Upkeep: middle, Stability: +25/-50 "Extremely Stable")
+100% /hammers in Capital, +2 culture from palace, barracks give +1XP extra

Totalitarianism: (tech: nationalism upkeep: middle, Stability: +20/-10 "Extremely Stable")
+20% mil. production, +1 happiness from Broadcast Tower(propaganda), +1 happiness with jail.

Representation: (tech: Democracy upkeep : high, Stability: +5/-90 "Affords fragile stability)
+50% War Weariness, +1 commerce per specialist (From Representation, beakers changed to gold however because ultimately whether or not the science gets done depends on whether or not the Government is willing to pay for it), Happiness Penalty for civs without, +1 health in all cities

Most of the stability ratings are Blasphemous's ideas for what are pretty much the civics vanilla counterparts.
Absolute Monarchy can start off very stable, but since all power rests with the monarch if things start going wrong the people only have one person to blame. Que crap hitting fan.

 

[SadoMacho]

Representation : + 1 for ecologist party (maybe adding this after tech ecology if this is possible)
doubble grow of cottages, hamlets,...

Abs. Monachy : should be +2 culture for palace, not

I'm still not happy with the effects of oligarchy, this should be the governement of the greek city states and the Roman republic.
What about : +50% commerce/hammers in capital, +1 from walls, +1 culture for courthouse.

 

[Vishaing]

I just edited my post at the top of this page to show new civic settings.

Sounds good for Representation, but I personally never have a shortage of health, so I think it might be a tad under powered. For now though it seems like a good idea with a good reason.

Absolute monarchy changed as suggested.

About Oligarchy, the +1 culture with courthouse makes sense, but I personally don't see how the +1 happiness from walls fits Specifically this government system. The happiness from the extra security of having a set of walls seems pretty universal to me until the late age. Perhaps as another small tweak Walls can give +1 happiness on their own and then go obsolete with rifling (not gunpowder because walls were still slightly useful when musketmen were the only gunpowder units)

I'm still looking into creating dynamic civics, but its taking a while. I have a feeling I'm just going to need to talk to TheLopez of Aussie_Lurker about it. However, My last final was today, so now I have a whole mess of free time. Though I can't look through the code for too long or the lines start blurring into Communist Propoganda.

 

[Aeon221]

Hey! Hater! Commies 4 life, yo!

(From Representation, beakers changed to gold however because ultimately whether or not the science gets done depends on whether or not the Government is willing to pay for it)

What does that mean? Science specialists produce gold instead of beakers? I am le lost.

Whatever that means, +50% ww is pretty harsh unless something superawesome comes with it.

Representation: 2x growth cottages, +50% ww, malus to civs without it, and +1 health seems fine. And whatever that other thing is XD

Oligarchy: +25% comm/hams in capital, +50% gpp capital, +1 culture courthouse.

That would fit both the Greeks and the Romans.

Absolute Monarchy: +50% culture all cities, +25% military production in capital

That fits Louis XIV pretty well, and even works with Frederick.

 

[Vishaing]

The specialists produce commerce instead of science because what happens to the commerce they produce depends entirely on the government. The commerce they produce should get put into the cities commerce pool, and then hit by the tax slider to see whether or not it gets turned into beakers or culture. This is my way of showing that in a representational democracy like America specialists produce more, but what they produce is decided by whoever wants to fund them, most often the government.

Even if it isn't put through the tax slider, the commerce will go directly to the treasury, thus allowing the government to set a higher science tax rate, and increase the science income.

The +50% gpp in capitol for oligarchy should be perfect.

As for Absolute Monarchy, I'm unsure about moving the culture to every city. Perhaps;
+25% culture in all cities, +2 culture from palace, and +25% millitary production in capitol?

 

[Aeon221]

That sounds pretty good, actually.

 

[SadoMacho]

Look nice, I think the goverment civics are good now (unless some one wants to add something to representation).

Perhaps we could move on to the religious civic, that would be the easiest one to discuss, IMO?

 

[Vishaing]

All right, lets move on. I updated the first post's government civics.

Now, to religion:

Paganism: (starting civic, upkeep: None)
No State Religion, +1 happiness in cities without a state religion, +1 culture per obelisk

Organized Religion: (tech: Monotheism, upkeep: Low)
Can Build Missionaries without a Monastery, +25% in cities with state religion.

Theocracy: (tech: Theology, upkeep: High)
No Non State Religion Spread, can construct inquisitors, + 2 happiness from State Religion. +1 from non state religion.

Pacifism: (tech: Philosophy, upkeep: Low)
+100% growth in cities with state religion, +1 commerce support per military unit.

Atheism: (tech: Scientific Method, upkeep Medium)
No State Religion, +20% science in all cities, +1 from non state religion, can build Secret Police (an inquisitor like unit I’m going to create.)

Free Religion: (tech: Liberalism, upkeep: Low)
+1 from Non State Religion, no State Religion. +10% science in all cities.

I have no ideas for what stability ratings to give. I, being rather unreligions, am not well versed in the study of religion. However I feel that most religions civics should help stability as Religion is a very unifying force unless you're dealing with another religion.

 

[SadoMacho]

don't like Pacifism. No bonus, +100% in cities with state religion would be better. All religions live next each other wothout violance, that's what I understand about Pacifism, and that would give a nice cultural boost, would it?

atheism : upkeep : high, in real life, this didn't happen much and not for a long time if it did, so if you want this, it's gonna cost ye! No spread of non state religion.

Free religion : +1 form amphitheatre, if you don't have to follow the state religion, you don't need to go to church, and you can watch sports in the stadium (modern amphitheatre), maybe this too for atheism.

Theocraty and org. religion : if possible, can't build the religious building of non state religions.

opg. religion : unlimited priests, upkeep : middle (priets cost money, temples too), inquisitors maybe? (the Spannish ones )

theocracy : +2 XP (holy soldiers)

stability : very stable : org. religion, Pacifism, free religion
stable : paganism,
neutral : theocracy
very unstable : atheism

 

[CyberChrist]

Some of your civics could do with some more downsides or perhaps fewer upsides.

Caste System should give -25% to name but one (bright people going to waste due to being born into a caste that can't make use of their abilities).

 

[SadoMacho]

good point, but now the discussion is about religious civics at the moment. Later on, we'll discus the other civics. Your imput is welcome though, and if you have other ideas, please post them, good ideas are allways welcome.

 

[Phallus]

don't like Pacifism. No bonus, +100% in cities with state religion would be better. All religions live next each other wothout violance, that's what I understand about Pacifism, and that would give a nice cultural boost, would it?

The First World War killed some of our greatest poets, remember. Granted that they probably wouldn't have become some of our greatest poets if they hadn't witnessed the war, but the great people bonus still makes sense (though to be fair, so does the culture bonus).

 

[CyberChrist]

Pacifism should have a penalty (- 25-50&#37 to the birth of Great Generals.

 

[SadoMacho]

how about :
Pacifism : +1 commerce per mil. unit, +75% , + 75% , +50% more great general point needed for birth.

More ideas, thought,...?

 

[Phallus]

I'm not that familiar with the GP point system, but I didn't know you could specify amounts for individual types of GP. It would be a nice suggestion if you could though.

 

[SadoMacho]

Great general point are not the same as other .
Points for great generals are gained by winning battles and can be followed in the adviseur screen.
Great people points are gained in cities by presence of specialists and wonders.

I don't know if it would be posible to do this, but it would be nice and it was a great idea.

 

[CyberChrist]

It is possible - they have seperate birth modifiers.

This also mean that it would be possible for some other relevant civic to offer a boost to Great General birth.

 

[MrThing]

It is possible - they have seperate birth modifiers.

This also mean that it would be possible for some other relevant civic to offer a boost to Great General birth.

That is a good question.

I would suggest that:
Hereditary Rule - Great Generals
Organized Religion and Theocrcy -Great Prophets
Absolute Monarchy - Great Engineers
Representation and Oligrachy - Great Merchants
Free Religion - Great Scientists

 

[CyberChrist]

@MrThing:
I think you misunderstood me. There are only 2 seperate birth modifiers (without further SDK modification) - 1 for Great Generals and 1 for all other .

 

[Vishaing]

One problem with assigning great general bonuses or penalties is that will have no effect in the vanilla version, which is what I am creating this for first. So maybe having such modifiers as an added little bonus or penalty is good, but they should not be an integral part of the civic.

How about:

Vanilla:
Pacifism : +1 commerce per mil. unit, +50% , + 50%

Warlords:
Pacifism : +1 commerce per mil. unit, +75% , + 75% , +50% more great general point needed for birth.

+1 happy for amphitheatre added to free religion and to Atheism, added no non state religion spread to Atheism. (can't believe I forgot about that)

current version:

Paganism: (starting civic, upkeep: None)
No State Religion, +1 happiness in cities without a state religion, +1 culture per obelisk

Organized Religion: (tech: Monotheism, upkeep: Low)
Can Build Missionaries without a Monastery, +25% production in cities with state religion, unlimeted priests

Theocracy: (tech: Theology, upkeep: High)
No Non State Religion Spread, can construct inquisitors, + 2 happiness from State Religion. +1 from non state religion. +2 xp for soldiers.

Pacifism: (tech: Philosophy, upkeep: Low)
+100% growth in cities with state religion, +1 commerce support per military unit. (NOT UPDATED)

Atheism: (tech: Scientific Method, upkeep: High)
No State Religion, no non state religion spread, +30% science in all cities, +1 from non state religion, can build Secret Police (an inquisitor like unit I’m going to create.) +1 happy from amphitheatre

Free Religion: (tech: Liberalism, upkeep: Low)
+1 happy from Non State Religion, no State Religion. +10% science in all cities. +1 happy from ampitheatre