RFCC - A modmod for RFC featuring Hellenism, Zoroastrianism, the Phoenicians and more

[Jusos2108]

It might be nice to add an extra seafood resource on the Egyptian coast to make building cities there (and on Crete) a little more appealing.

I agree with this. Also the Spartan clam could be moved 1NW, so that Syracuse gets it as well and it would out of egyptian reach to balance the (possible) extra clam south of Crete (1S of Knossos).

This would also help the AI, which decided to settle Knossos and Sparta in my phoenician game.

BTW AnotherPacifist, this leads to a very weak Greece; so when playing with Persia it would be an ideal start.

 

[Ekolite]

I disagree with moving the clam into syracuse's radius because it will make the Barca city location very weak for phoenecia (where the dyes used to be). This is usually the first place I colonise as the Phoneys and provides a good jumping ground for carthage and beyond.

An extra fish in Sur's radius but not in Jerusalem's might be nice to make both cities viable, instead of mutually exclusive, but it's not such a big deal.

 

[Corossol]

I think that those that you mentioned are the conditions in regural RFC, but since they didn't work for me I tried those that I mentioned (I think I remember seeing them in an ancient patch), but they didn't work for me either.

Anyway, as you can see from my screenshot, I met any of those requirements, so I guess Corossol has changed the territorial roman UHV for RFCC? or there is a bug!

I didn't make any change to the territorial Roman UHV. But according to your screenshot, you should have met the requirements indeed. What turn was that?

 

[Corossol]

EDIT: OK, I see that you have made the Cape of Good Hope impassable (Ocean). Still, this ends up looking a bit weird.

Yeah, I actually tried different configurations for the Ocean tiles and this is actually the one that looks the least weird. Coastal oceans look much better in the Bering Strait region where there's ice everywhere and no one is looking closely.

 

[Corossol]

Had to build multiple forts in and around Sinai to get access to NZ in the end. Could certainly be improved upon though.

Interesting! I hadn't even though of players using land-to-land ship movement to go around my sea access restrictions. I think I'll leave it as is, it makes early canals possible but complex to build and slow to cross, which is more realistic than ships zipping through cities everywhere.

 

[Jusos2108]

I didn't make any change to the territorial Roman UHV. But according to your screenshot, you should have met the requirements indeed. What turn was that?

It was 172. I even entered WB tried if it would work when I erase Iverness and all enemy units from Europe, but no success. On the next turn I always fail the UHV.

Here is the save, if you need it.

 

[Jusos2108]

An extra fish in Sur's radius but not in Jerusalem's might be nice to make both cities viable, instead of mutually exclusive, but it's not such a big deal.

The Sur location is very weak indeed. Maybe something could be done to it. However, I don't know how the phoenician AI manages to spread out, since, so far, I have always destroyed it when met.

BTW, Babylon has always collapsed (in my games) one or two turns after Persian spawn and and the flip of Shush. Might have something to do with the phoenicians. Has this happened to other players??

 

[Steb]

Concerning the Romans, I have had the same situation. There is probably something wrong with the UHV.

Greece not founding Hellenism has a lot to do with your victory.

I don't think so; actually, I don't think Greece's prosperity has a lot to do with Persia. You can get the 8% very well without conquering Greece. I guess the worst that could happen would be that they build too many wonders among the few available to Persia. How India, Babylonia, Phoenicia, Egypt and the barbarians do is much more important to Persia than Greece. (If Greece does well, can it be a strategy to conquer them once they have built a few Hellenic wonders?)

I actually won another Persian game, and this time, India was still around, with archers, but I managed to conquer them without too much loss. Also, Shush did not flip for unknown reasons. On the other hand, Babylon was easily conquered because the Greeks had just taken it. The Sphinx was in Egypt, but I took it early enough to spawn a prophet there (the other one was in Dilli). I had to delay the Great Library though. And luckily China did not build the Great Wall yet again, for this time Japan stole my Colossus. A key strategy that I recommend is trying to meet the Romans for the trade routes and Alphabet, which seems to be easy to trade for once you have Math and Monarchy.

In brief, Persia's UHV does rely on luck (as many UHVs do), but is definitely possible. Not like India's...

 

[Ekolite]

The Sur location is very weak indeed. Maybe something could be done to it. However, I don't know how the phoenician AI manages to spread out, since, so far, I have always destroyed it when met.

BTW, Babylon has always collapsed (in my games) one or two turns after Persian spawn and and the flip of Shush. Might have something to do with the phoenicians. Has this happened to other players??

In my games Babylon seems to hold on for quite some time, usually only with the city of Babylon, or sometimes even only with a city with a name like Ebalia to the north. They often vassalise to Persia.

 

[blizzrd]

I don't think so; actually, I don't think Greece's prosperity has a lot to do with Persia.

In my current game as Maya, I met a Greek Caravel at the edge of the Caribbean in 1440AD. Greece collapsed about 5 turns later, but clearly they managed to do quite well for themselves before this, even surviving the Turkish spawn and holding onto Byzantion.

Greece seems to be doing just fine to me if it can achieve all of this.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

why, oh why, was Divine Right taken from Mali? Can we have another tech in place please to help get feudalism and guilds faster? E.g. give them fishing and sailing.

Addendum: finally did it, since I went back to partially bulb banking with my 2nd merchant and despite a plague near the end. Had to BEG a respawned Egypt 20 bucks to top the 15999 in 1700. The Impi, camels and elephants were fast and furious...really needs to be toned down.

 

[Steb]

I just played Babylonia, Phoenicia and Arabia (looks like I like the Middle East these days). Some observations:

Babylonia, like AnotherPacifist pointed out, is probably impossible without some unexpected luck. I won, but it was thanks to India who kindly collapsed, thus not founding Buddhism and letting my culture dominate. The problem is that both the cultural and the technology objectives can be achieved only with the Sphinx, but one requires it early and the other later. I tried some strategies, like founding Hinduism before India and before doing anything else, but then I could not get Writing before the Greek spawn. I tried to get Alphabet with an early Sphinx, but the added research was not enough to get Monarchy in time. To help, perhaps it could be made that the Hanging Gardens don't require Masonry. And something could be done about the unexpectedly rising tech costs sometime before Persia's spawn.

Arabia has not changed much, except that both its UB and UU are less useful now. I like that the Zoroastrian shrine gives an incentive to go east early on. Also, the Islam-only wonders help to make sure the Spiral Minaret won't be stolen, which is nice (but not very necessary).

Phoenicia is really nice and more interesting than its Carthage counterpart. I just love that civ. The 5 cities goal is easy (as long as you watch the turns), and really historical, as it makes you colonize the sea just like the Phoenicians did. It also synergizes with the dyes. Deprived of the mercenaries and Numidian cavalry, their militaristic capacities are severely diminished; but they don't need to be a militaristic civ, except for the fight with the Romans in Sicily, whereas the Carthaginians had to build a big army to reconquer Sur and the area to get their dye (which is a completely ahistorical situation). I also smiled when I noted that Qart-Hadasht was flourishing while Sur was being crippled by neighbouring culture. Eventually, Carthage became by far my best city and I moved my capital there with the Hagia Sophia. (I remark that my stability did not fall upon the capital shift, and even improved a small bit.)

 

[blizzrd]

Mayan UHV is certainly achievable. Calendar is still hard, but now that Corn is a requirement for the Temple of Kulkallan there is no longer a random chance that another civ will beat you to this.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I'm going to try a domination with Arabia this week since I haven't done one recently. It sounds like having only knights is not as good taking down Byzantium, but now that some wonders are Islam-oriented only (the Univ of Sankore, Spiral Minaret and Taj Mahal), it should make them easier.

 

[Jusos2108]

Babylonia, like AnotherPacifist pointed out, is probably impossible without some unexpected luck. I won, but it was thanks to India who kindly collapsed, thus not founding Buddhism and letting my culture dominate. The problem is that both the cultural and the technology objectives can be achieved only with the Sphinx, but one requires it early and the other later. I tried some strategies, like founding Hinduism before India and before doing anything else, but then I could not get Writing before the Greek spawn. I tried to get Alphabet with an early Sphinx, but the added research was not enough to get Monarchy in time. To help, perhaps it could be made that the Hanging Gardens don't require Masonry. And something could be done about the unexpectedly rising tech costs sometime before Persia's spawn.

I also played a game with Babylonians and didn't win, since Persians spawned one turn before I reached Monarchy and Dilli was size 7 (could have get M with some adjustment though). I even had some luck: got a scout and then animal husbandry from huts and conquered Jerusalem with two high promoted 3CR and 3S warriors (only had one archer in it, since two of them went haras Hattusas after I had beaten it down to one warrior with my free barbwins, I think this works pretty often so it is worth a try). Even more luckily I got the mercy-for-the-wounded-event before the Archers got back to me.

Hanging Gardens should be made more easily accessable for Babylonians and the techrise is really annoying, allthough I suspect it can't be moved. Also had to take Alphabet with Sphinx since had like ten turns remaining with Priesthood. The culture dominating was not an issue for me.

 

[Corossol]

Great feedback everyone! I'm working on an update which should be released Friday or Saturday.

 

[Jusos2108]

Played an Ethiopian game to see how it works out in this mod.

Well, since christianity is always(?) founded in Jerusalem, the ethiopians need to conquer it before it is founded (90AD?). This, though, is somewhat dependable about the Egyptian infrastructure (and existance).

In my game Phoenicians controlled it and Egypt had a East-Nile-Highway, so it was pretty easy. I was even able to get a horseman and a catapult to assist my spawned troops with that. Anyway, this is an improvement to normal RFC ethiopian game, since that normally consisted of waiting and reloading.

The rest was easy and Ethiopia was able to compete with France and Germany for the score lead (I even had to conquer 1900 collapsed Egypt, which was my vassal, to come 2nd). However, it is annoying that the late game overall scores are so low. Basicly they are uncompatible to earlier UHV-victory scores. I think score scoresystem is straight from normal Civ and that it hasn't really been modified to match RFC. This something that could be changed, if somebody knows how to.

BTW, can anybody tell me why my rifleman can't move to Per-Atum in one turn (2nd screenshot)?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

BTW, can anybody tell me why my rifleman can't move to Per-Atum in one turn (2nd screenshot)?

I've noted this many times. Corossol, you need to correct this bug. It seems that if you can build highways, your cities automatically have it, but then you cannot move outside the adjacent city squares and beyond without costing a move (even if there's a road or railway) unless there's also a highway on that square you've moving onto.

 

[Steb]

Thank you for turning the mouth of the St. Lawrence river into a less weird place!

Also, I'm not sure, but I haven't seen the AI build the Hagia Sophia or the Forbidden Palace. Are they afraid to move their capital? (Or am I blind because they actually build them?)

 

[blizzrd]

Spoiler :

If Madrassa replaces University as the unique building for the Arabs, shouldn't it allow Scientists as opposed to Priests?