Chilloutman
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2011
- Messages
- 19
I know, but... wait, oh my, I had to change Bureaucracy...
RFCE 1.3 Playtest Feedback
- Thread starter gilgames
- Start date
2phunkey4u
West-Eastern Divan
I remember there is a also one further down the Dnepr outside of the Muscovy flip zone. I found that more convenient. Never tried trading for fur from Sweden or Norway. Would that even count?
btw Isn't there a strategy discussions thread?
DC123456789
Deity
By the way, is there a reason why Finland drops from potential all the way to unstable? I get that you want to weaken Novgorod in the later game, but isn't that a little harsh? Going down to border would make more sense IMO- dealing with Muscovy is already annoying enough.
AbsintheRed
Deity
It starts as border, not as potential. Still think it should stay as border?
Maybe I should change the colors on the stability overlay, sometimes it's hard to notice the difference between red, orange and yellow
Shadow Warlord
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 272
Just had a quick playthrough as Novgorod myself. Osterland should probably stay border for Novgorod just so it's not too difficult to run around and get furs.
I'm also thinking their uu may need either a heavy cavalry or city strength bonus to help them fend off the Teutonic Knights (you need to hold Riga and capture/raze whatever city Prussia tries to settle in Livonia).
AbsintheRed
Deity
Actually it's enough if it's in your cultural borders
AbsintheRed
Deity
This is what you meant in the other post?
It's only 2 different messages for the player
Or rather, the same message in 2 colours, for different conditions
I guess in some cases both can trigger
Totally harmless, but I can easily remove one of them if it's annoying
DC123456789
Deity
My mistake. It is still quite annoying though, given that you basically have to have 2-3 cities there for the fur UHV.
gilgames
Priest-King
I tried novgorod again: -i found that if you skip novgorod city things are a bit easier. All went smoothly. i could sell chivalry for a few other tech, prussia spawned at war, so livonia was safe. i had all under controll until 1300. when plague sarted and about 8 keshik appeared from south. i had to gave up Bryansk, then Cholm was hit by plague, and instantly killed 2 units out of 4. oh i had only 2 knights. No mercenary all the time to hire, i could have good use 2-3-4 baltic mercenary cause economy was fine.
Novgorod isnt a bad civ just luck of production/unit production a lot. I mean it, building units is a real pain, like: courthouse 9 turns, and a gui 10. knights about 10-15-20 and only 1-2 city has the "power" to build it in 10 turns (mostly the capital only). with them i would give my half arm for a theocracy
And please reduce moscows flip zone from my core province! there is a late city spot with fur in novgorod and in the flip zone. Its not good to face 10 boyars because a puny furtrapper village..
Novgorod isnt a bad civ just luck of production/unit production a lot. I mean it, building units is a real pain, like: courthouse 9 turns, and a gui 10. knights about 10-15-20 and only 1-2 city has the "power" to build it in 10 turns (mostly the capital only). with them i would give my half arm for a theocracy
And please reduce moscows flip zone from my core province! there is a late city spot with fur in novgorod and in the flip zone. Its not good to face 10 boyars because a puny furtrapper village..
gilgames
Priest-King
I had cities all iron around, thats doent help, not enough hills, too late guilds...
Shadow Warlord
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 272
Novgorod itself is ok with Bureaucracy, and the UB comes before guilds. Production can still be a challenge, and unless you get horses from Smolensk you don't have any really good counters for Teutonic Knights.
gilgames
Priest-King
i know, thats why i allways start with cholm+ortodoxy, to gain horse fast enough. but to build an army of AL or knights is nearly impossible. timescale from 1200 to 1300 is a horrible time to novgorod:
- struggling with production
- forced expansion for fur
- prussian+lithuaninan agression
- mongol invasion
- polish/german threat
- looming deadlines for uhvs
- unwaited settlers in livonia + estonia
- plague
- and finally technological struggling.
i could be a fun game if you could at least focus on 1 thing, to help you out. quick expansion or good tech rate OR BETTER production. each of these could make it better. if you check ++ they filled they territory with resourses just like every civ's domain. they simply lack hammers and healt and happines too. and yes, you can change some fur to other stuffs, but you cant get all you need.
ps: when barbs took 2 city and pillaged my horse, i quited.when stupid cheater keshiks ruin in 2 turns, what you built for 400 years....i cant take it....
- struggling with production
- forced expansion for fur
- prussian+lithuaninan agression
- mongol invasion
- polish/german threat
- looming deadlines for uhvs
- unwaited settlers in livonia + estonia
- plague
- and finally technological struggling.
i could be a fun game if you could at least focus on 1 thing, to help you out. quick expansion or good tech rate OR BETTER production. each of these could make it better. if you check ++ they filled they territory with resourses just like every civ's domain. they simply lack hammers and healt and happines too. and yes, you can change some fur to other stuffs, but you cant get all you need.
ps: when barbs took 2 city and pillaged my horse, i quited.when stupid cheater keshiks ruin in 2 turns, what you built for 400 years....i cant take it....
I apologize for being so late to inform you of my experiences with this updated RFCE! I've become addicted to playing it again and it's definitely a lot of fun. So far I played Denmark, Germany, Byzantium, and Aragon. I try to play to the UHVs but I rarely make it to them because my play style is... unrefined at best... But anyway, I have a crashing save with Aragon; revision 1125... Just play two or three turns in. I'll try starting a new game with them. Also, is Cordoba supposed to convert to Christianity so often? I feel like they're too impressionable... Sure they treated the "heathens" more kindly than most other Islamic states but they still made living difficult for non-Muslims afaik. So, well, I digress. Thanks for keeping it going! I'm eager to hear more.
Shadow Warlord
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 272
I think it's because Cordoba doesn't do a good job of sending missionaries to spread Islam to their new cities. This results in Catholicism getting autospread to their new cities and making them more willing to convert.
Just got back with another round of gameplay. I took Sweden out for a spin and it was fun until... game freeze, yay! 
It freezes after turn 235 I believe, a couple turns into the save I have attached.
And yeah, that thing about Cordoba makes sense. I figured it was the AI using conversion to an advantage since they would benefit more from a majority religion. I'd suggest adding a UP that erases the non-state religion upon capture but that doesn't seem right for them, or a UP that immediately adds Islam upon capture but Arabia already has that one. Oh well, I'm sure we'll figure out a solution someday.
Also, (just like in RFCE ++) Orthodoxy loves to spread in Denmark. In a prior game with Sweden (one I did before the current one but missed the first UHV), they had Orthodoxy in three cities in Denmark province and two cities in Skåne, and later it spread to Stockholm (I sent my Catholic missionaries off with my other two settlers since I was already getting culture out of the capital). I don't believe that's historical?? I doubt I'm the only one who's noticed that though.
I also tried playing Norway (for the upteenth time). I've always had the hardest time racking up Viking points, in fact I can't even think of a time when I ever got that UHV completed (without cheating). I send my two Berserkers, Swordsman, and Archer to Ireland, pillage all the improvements there, and then capture the city. Usually all of my units survive, or at least the two Berserkers. Then I send the Berserkers to England, and I figured since there's a preplaced city in Mercia and East Anglia it would be easier to get those points, but no, not really. By the time I drop off those starting Berserkers, I've gotten two or four from Norway on their way. I've pillaged all of those improvements and captured all the cities in England but still don't have much more than 30-40 points. There's rarely an opportunity to gain points from sinking ships, and by the time I have the English provinces under my control, I don't have time to try invading France and get the last dozen points I need. Finally, if I'm not mistaken, I was trying to build Vinland and I was a couple turns away, then it suddenly told me I couldn't complete it. I think the year was 1000 exactly and I had North America access, so I don't know what the purpose of that was. So... those are just some of my gripes about Norway.
It freezes after turn 235 I believe, a couple turns into the save I have attached. And yeah, that thing about Cordoba makes sense. I figured it was the AI using conversion to an advantage since they would benefit more from a majority religion. I'd suggest adding a UP that erases the non-state religion upon capture but that doesn't seem right for them, or a UP that immediately adds Islam upon capture but Arabia already has that one. Oh well, I'm sure we'll figure out a solution someday.
Also, (just like in RFCE ++) Orthodoxy loves to spread in Denmark. In a prior game with Sweden (one I did before the current one but missed the first UHV), they had Orthodoxy in three cities in Denmark province and two cities in Skåne, and later it spread to Stockholm (I sent my Catholic missionaries off with my other two settlers since I was already getting culture out of the capital). I don't believe that's historical?? I doubt I'm the only one who's noticed that though.
I also tried playing Norway (for the upteenth time). I've always had the hardest time racking up Viking points, in fact I can't even think of a time when I ever got that UHV completed (without cheating). I send my two Berserkers, Swordsman, and Archer to Ireland, pillage all the improvements there, and then capture the city. Usually all of my units survive, or at least the two Berserkers. Then I send the Berserkers to England, and I figured since there's a preplaced city in Mercia and East Anglia it would be easier to get those points, but no, not really. By the time I drop off those starting Berserkers, I've gotten two or four from Norway on their way. I've pillaged all of those improvements and captured all the cities in England but still don't have much more than 30-40 points. There's rarely an opportunity to gain points from sinking ships, and by the time I have the English provinces under my control, I don't have time to try invading France and get the last dozen points I need. Finally, if I'm not mistaken, I was trying to build Vinland and I was a couple turns away, then it suddenly told me I couldn't complete it. I think the year was 1000 exactly and I had North America access, so I don't know what the purpose of that was. So... those are just some of my gripes about Norway.
Dunno about Vinland, but to get the Viking points you don't want to conquer anything at first. Land and pillage all the improvements in England, Ireland and France, then rotate your forces around pillaging as they rebuild improvements. Also pillage around Lubeck, Uppsala, Calais and pretty much anywhere you can land a couple of beserkers. Only conquer cities if they are large and when you get closer to the 1066 deadline - once you've captured a city you can't get any more points from it.
Park your navy in the Channel and you should be able to kill a few barbarian ships whilst you wait for your land units to pillage. I generally kill about four or five ships, pillage 30+ improvements and capture a couple of large cities to get the 50 points.
