Rhino's Return - Immortal Brennus

[vranasm]

actually I think you should vassal them both and not make colony... if they somehow end in Mercantilism if they are vassals you have still the trade routes. Colony is independent.

You could probably vassal Zara too. That would make you very strong in the eyes of Justy/Louis.

I think you prepared your "bureau" capital so I think maybe still getting Edu and OU is still sound, but from the SS's I saw I think you could do pure hammer economy. It's actually pretty strong after AL (you should have at least 10 cities with 100H production).

I bet you could peak around 2.5k beakers at least...

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Building a Navy (Turns 598-614, Years 1406-1438 AD)

Short turnset. I get another Great Scientist as the turnset ends. I'm feeling like I should settle these guys in Oporto, but at 9 BPT, it would barely make a dent.

I've also been thinking about Bureaucracy vs Nationalism. Here's Oporto:

Spoiler :

76 CPT. So, Bur would bring in 38 CPT. But it would cost 50-some GPT. Now, that 38 gets multiplied, but I think it would only break even. Also, I want to stay in Caste, and the +2 happiness from the barracks is helping a lot of cities with the Emancipation unhappiness.

If I were playing for space race, I'd get Oxford in Oporto. With a 3x multiplier, 38 CPT is worth it. And it would improve as the rest of the cottages mature. But I'm beelining a conquest victory, and I think I'll stick with Nationalism and just letting my citizenry figure out how to read themselves, as they work the corn fields.

This is what I've realized about a bur cap: You really need to plan it with a ton of overlap from other cities. 100% of the cottages need to be worked by 1AD, or they just won't be mature in any reasonable timeframe, and you'll wind up wishing it was another farm / specialist city, like I am now.

1438: Steel completes. By this time, I have my navy:

Spoiler :

10 privateers, 7 frigates. I'm at even power with most of the world, and 0.7 with Justinian.

Lisbon will make a drydock and stay on navy, the rest of my military cities will build cannon. SE Horse is my Heroic Epic city; it's not the strongest production, but it's got a settled GG and is coastal, so it can handle both land and sea.

I've stayed in Pacifism until now, but I'll probably swap to Theocracy for making my land stack.

Here's the tech trades screen:

Spoiler :

Justinian has Rifling and Chemistry. I can't rely on a few frigates to sink his navy anymore. If Aggressive AI was on, I'd be pretty worried. But he isn't in war prep status, and I don't think he daggers, so I'll get 10+ turns of warning before he does anything.

You know who is in war prep mode? Gilgamesh. Which is awesome. Either he'll declare on me, saving me the diplo hit and possibly letting me sink a ton of his troops, or he'll declare on Zara and I have an even easier time taking him out. Though, most likely, I'll be ready before him and declare on him myself.

Next turnset: Build cannon, bulb music, research Military Tradition, and set sail for war with Gilgamesh.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Building My Army (Turns 614-624, Years 1438-1458 AD)

One more short turnset before things get interesting again.

Quick check to make sure I won't have any problems keeping my vassals:

Spoiler :

Nope. I have more than twice Justinian's land. Which means I don't need to try to take more land, or worry about clearing space around the cities I conquer. I can give them all back without worrying about my vassal un-vassaling.

I bulb music (that artist actually turned out to be useful) and research Military Tradition. Also, swap to Theocracy for building my stack. It costs about 40 GPT, which is pretty ridiculous, but whatever. Military tradition in 12 isn't bad.

My cities, ordered by production:

Spoiler :

Hmmm, I thought I had more on troops. My bad. Over this turnset, I make some barracks and workshops, and soon 2-3 more cities will be making military. I've also built a few more workers, since 14 just isn't enough anymore, even with most of the land already developed.

1440: Louis becomes Justinian's vassal.

Spoiler :

That could make my war with them a little more complicated, but it's a peace vassaling, so they should split at some point.

1458: SE Horse is up and running as a powerful Heroic Epic city.

Spoiler :

Almost 100 hammers per turn. You can get more with a landlocked city full of workshops, but it's quite good for one that can produce a Navy.

(I'll probably replace the horse and banana with workshops, though. Then work the last ocean tile, draft away the other specialist, and have a dedicated hammers city.)

Also in 1458, I'm ready for war. My fleet:

Spoiler :

A frigate and privateer will join them next turn, and there are a few more troops waiting at home, with more on the way.

I buy a map from Louis:

Spoiler :

Hammurabi's land, by my ships:



Gilgamesh's land to the NE of it (the double-clam is the same in both shots):

Here's the plan:

Sweep from South to North through Hammurabi's lands. He's Gilgamesh's vassal, so I have to take him out before Gilgamesh will capitulate.

The land looks pretty weak. I plan to grant that island independence, under a new and competent leader, though I need to verify that I can trade with it under mercantilism.

Then, cross the straight, and take a few more of Gilgamesh's cities to make him capitulate. If the war with Ham is going really well, I may just send my second load of troops straight to Gilgamesh, we'll see.

Then I'll probably give his cities back to him, since it'll be hard to clear enough land to keep them from rioting. If he's stubborn, though...

The other option, of course, is to conquer Gilgamesh first. Wipe him out, keep the land, farm it all. It's tempting, and it's probably the strongest long-term play (along with state property to handle colony costs), but it will seriously drag out the game, and I don't think I need it to win.

What about techs?

Spoiler :

Gilgamesh has muskets, nothing more. Hammurabi doesn't even have optics. Neither should put up much of a fight against cannon.

Next turnset: Conquering Hammurabi.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

My First Vassal (Turns 624-640, Years 1458-1490 AD)

Wow, the forums are back. Since I couldn't get my Civ fix here, I've played several turnsets today. Here's the first one.

When we left off, I was about to declare on Gilgamesh, and wipe out his vassal, Hammurabi. Just one more thing to check first: Any wonders I need to make sure I grab?

Spoiler :

Nope. Gilgamesh has zero. Louis, on the other hand, has roughly all of them. (His list keeps going if you scroll down on that screen.)

1460: Military Tradition completes. Not needed for this war, but nice to have.

Next: Replaceable parts and rifling.

Spoiler :

I thought about education, but it takes at least four techs to pay off. Probably more, since it takes a while to build the universities, and since I don't have one killer science city for Oxford. Besides, observatories are cheaper, and I haven't built them in most cities, anyway, so clearly I'm not hurting for a science multiplier.

1462: My landing party:

Spoiler :

This should be quick. Sadly, I lose to cannon -- one at 95% odds vs a longbow.

Anyway, the city is mine:

Spoiler :

Nothing great, but two resources, and it comes with the courthouse. Keep it. I'm still planning to turn this whole island into a colony after wiping out Hammurabi.

1470: The next city. Hammurabi has one longbow, and a bunch of obsolete stuff:

Spoiler :

The fighting is easy. I take the city, with seven people. Keep.

Spoiler :

Also, my second boatload arrives. That's them in the city in that screenshot. My great general healer joins the main stack.

At this point, I take a break, but do a test first: If I grant a colony independence, and were both in mercantilism, can we trade? Answer: Yes.

Spoiler :

Churchill is the new colony's leader.

Again, just for a test. I saved before doing it.

A bit later, I start another turnset. Here's my frigates, preventing Gilgamesh from attacking me:

Spoiler :

And I'm glad I have them, because soon, Gilgamesh sends his stack:

Spoiler :

Not sure why the mouseover didn't come out, but I think it was two carvels and four galleons. Over the next two turns, my forgets sink all but one, and he only manages to get three units onto my shores:

Spoiler :

I destroy them, along with another landing party, next turn.

Spoiler :

Hopefully that keeps Gilgamesh on the defensive, and makes him ready to capitulate once I take out his vassal.

1478: My stack is it Hammurabi's next city. Same story.

Spoiler :

It comes with a few people, and occupies the only spot to pick up both fish. Keep.

The first city I took it out of resistance, and starving. Between artists and building culture, I can just barely pop borders in one turn.

Spoiler :

10% culture slider is for happiness empire-wide.

I'm pleased with the micro

Also, I noticed that the upkeep is only 10 GPT. Maybe I'll keep it…

1480: Aaargh. I left two muskets defending the second city I talk, shifting the rest to the attack. I should have left more. Hammurabi attacks with obsolete units, but a lot of them, and takes the city back.

Spoiler :

I've retake it easily, but all this fighting destroys more buildings and population, and adds another point of war weariness.

1484: My stack at the next city. The other half of my units are retaking that other city.

Spoiler :

This one comes with a great prophet. Nice.

1488: Another boatload of units arrives to attack the next city. My 2-movers join in, too.

Spoiler :

By this point, I've decided to keep the cities. The maintenance isn't bad, and between mercantilism and representation, they can easily turn a net profit.

So, I burn this city, and whip a settler to place a new one in and actually decent spot. (I'll show you next turnset).

Next turn, Gilgamesh capitulates. I didn't even reach his island.

I'm lucky he did, though. Four galleons were about to attack this island:

Spoiler :

It's not all that bad. My 2-movers could've reached the city this turn. But still, I'd much rather have a vassal then have both of us burn our troops.

The trade routes are nice, but not a huge deal:

Spoiler :

If I hadn't made a point of growing my island cities to size 15+, these routes would be great. Whatever, I'm glad to have a vassal and some more resources, plus some more land, and the fighting was really easy.

Next turnset: War with Zara.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Conquering Zara (Turns 640-647, Years 1490-1504 AD)

Next up is Zara. How are his techs?

Spoiler :

Muskets, but nothing else. Should be easy.

1498: Remember city I razed, saying I'd move it? Here's where it wound up:

Spoiler :

I would've wanted a city here anyway, to use the grassland farms. So razing the one on the iron doesn't cost any land, and saves me maintenance.

1500: My stack is ready to strike.

Spoiler :

I win every single battle, with every single unit, but Zara has too many defenders, and I can't finish the city.

Spoiler :

Between turns, Gilgamesh takes it. The city was 51% Gilgamesh's culture anyway, and I was planning on gifting it to him. That's why wasn't worried about counting defenders and attackers and making sure I'd take it.

1504: Rifling completes. Justinian is working on railroads (machine guns). To counter them, I'll want artillery, which means physics is next.

I double-bulb most of it:

Spoiler :

Yes, bulbs are still worthwhile this late in the game. Each GS is worth 7700 beakers, and the next one costs 5400 GPP. Physics in 5.

And, not sure what triggered it, but Zara will capitulate now, and even throw in 675 G. The war only lasted 2 turns.

So, that continent is wrapped up. Next turnset, I'll bring that stack back to my mainland, and prepare for war with Justinian.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Starting the Next War (Turns 647-670, Years 1504-1550 AD)

One shot I forgot from last turnset: If you're wondering what the point of those other wars was, beyond some allies who are behind in tech, I also got some more resources:

Spoiler :

+2 health, +3 happiness, and another 2 happiness for "influencing other civilizations." Should make this war much easier.

1512: Physics completes. Artillery in 22. Not hugely fast, but not terrible.

1538: My stack and galleons are finally ready.

Spoiler :

These guys are ready to set sail.



And some reinforcements, for when the ships return.

Man, that took forever. If this wasn't marathon, I would've been better just gifting the troops to my vassals and building a whole new army.

Incidentally, for any newer players wondering how to build a big stack: That was all out of five cities. (One on navy, four on land). It's just a matter of having them continuously crank units, and ignoring things like observatories and markets.

One last look at the tech situation:

Spoiler :

Justinian is working on combustion, and he has land-based oil. I won't be able to stop him from building a modern navy. But, with artillery, at least I can defend my mainland easily.

I plan to drop my troops on his island before he gets a navy, so even if he shuts down reinforcements, he still has my artillery rampaging through his cities.

1546: I make land in Louis' territory, on a hill by his most wonder-heavy city.

Spoiler :

Ton of defenders, including some almost-contemporary units. I upgrade 2 rifles for hill defense. I was all "Yes, I'm finally going to get to use the Dun," but rifling makes walls obsolete, so no unique building for me. Seriously, the Celts get a weak building, a mostly-pointless unique sword, and the two worst starting techs in the game (mysticism and hunting). What gives?

1548: Artillery completes. That should counter Justinian's machine guns nicely. (Yes, I know machine guns are immune to collateral. But it gives me a strong attacker, and it will mess up the rest of his stack. My real worry was having nothing at strength 18 to attack a machine gun effectively.)

Next, I need an oil navy, too.

Spoiler :

I thought about education again, but universities are so expensive, and I don't have one killer science city, so Oxford isn't that awesome, either.

Also in 1548: I'd left my carvels just at the edge of Justinian's frigate range, trying to lure them out. It worked:

Spoiler :

I take out the three frigates. Not a huge victory, but nice to get them out of the way before he has transports.

And even more in 1548: Orleans is bombarded down. Most of my stack is fairly healthy, having weathered a fair amount of attacks. I attack, winning every fight, but there are just so many defenders. Here's the before and after:

Spoiler :

Before:



Next turn, with new reinforcements:



You ever feel like you're making zero progress?

Louis has so many defenders. I had no idea AIs did this without Aggressive AI turned on.

By the way, that's only the first landing party. The second group is on the way.

Next turn, round 2 is the charm, and I finally take the city. And what a city it is:

Spoiler :

Since I skipped the education line, the Great Lighthouse still works for me, and lets me move my research slider up one. Over 400 GPT in trade routes:

Spoiler :

Orleans also comes with the statue of Zeus, which I'm glad to have out of Louis's hands; the Sistine Chapel, which will be nice for popping borders; and, off the screen, Versailles, which is just perfect for starting a conquest.

Now I have a decision: Conquer Louis, or head south to Justinian? I'd like to clear some of Louis' culture, and eventually eliminate him so Justinian will capitulate. But I can't ignore Justinian while he techs an oil navy and who knows what else.

I'm thinking to take all my modern units south, and leave the old stuff (knights and muskets, plus some cannon) to take care of Louis. They wouldn't be that effective against machine guns anyway, but they will be great vs Louis: My power ratio with him is 3.5! (Yes, I have over 3x as much military.)

And now we're caught up to where I am in the game. Thoughts?

 

[Smilingrogue]

Isn't Justinian already at war with you? I thought Louis was his vassal?

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Right on both counts. But he's basically ignored me as I've taken Louis' city. The choice isn't about declaring, it's about which spots to actually attack.

 

[coanda]

I suspect either would work at this point, but my inclination would be to finish off Louis as quickly as possible, by taking your stack and splitting it multiple ways. Honestly, an oil-based navy shouldn't be a big problem. You'll have finished landing your army before he can hope to get naval dominance. If he tries a counter-attack, the absolute worst he might manage is to conquer one or two coastal cities, then get his army utterly crushed as your reinforcements arrive; that's just fewer units you'd have to fight on his continent.

Wipe out Louis, so you know the instant he's willing to capitulate and don't have to spend any longer than necessary beating on him.

 

[Smilingrogue]

I haven't ever persecuted a two front aggressive war, so I don't have first hand experience with it, but would your War weariness get too bad if you kill troops in two seperate nations' borders simultaneously? If yes, might be best to just beat on Louis now, finish him off or cap him and then move on to Justinian.

Finishing Louis should be easy if you outnumber him that badly and gives you a base to use to attack Justi from up close without having to entirely rely on your homeland for resupply. I am guessing that wonder city Louis had will make a good troop pump with minimal hassle.

 

[vranasm]

when I start to think "the AI does nothing! useless master of vassal I am attacking" it usually ends with "oops...where this 100 units stack came from?"

getting SoZ is very good catch, it would be really annoying to fight the WW.

not sure why you mentioned GLH conflicting with Education, because Corporation is the tech that obsoletes GLH and if you want Infantry you will need Corp btw.

not sure if you use them, but Airships would be very valuable addition to your warfare and getting airports is very good in multicontinent warfare too, but I guess for airports it's too late probably.

 

[Keilah]

I tried airships for the first time yesterday, and it looks to me like they just do a tiny bit of damage to one unit each. It would take 10 airships to do the work of 2 cannons...

 

[vranasm]

I tried airships for the first time yesterday, and it looks to me like they just do a tiny bit of damage to one unit each. It would take 10 airships to do the work of 2 cannons...

it all stacks up. In SG She-Wolves we were fighting airships+cannons+rifles+cavs war against Peter with Sam Infantry and artilleries and we won.

we had high airships attrition rate (thanks to sams), but as I said it all stacks... they are quickiest reinforcements you can get before flight.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Thanks guys. This input is really helpful.

Honestly, an oil-based navy shouldn't be a big problem. You'll have finished landing your army before he can hope to get naval dominance. If he tries a counter-attack, the absolute worst he might manage is to conquer one or two coastal cities, then get his army utterly crushed as your reinforcements arrive; that's just fewer units you'd have to fight on his continent.

Cool. That was my main concern, so this is really good to know. I'll focus on making the most of the troops already over there, instead of trying to do damage before oil.

when I start to think "the AI does nothing! useless master of vassal I am attacking" it usually ends with "oops...where this 100 units stack came from?"

Good advice. I'll have to avoid splitting my stack.

In terms of overall strategy, I'm thinking to take Louis' land to clear his culture, so Justinian and I both fight on even footing and I can get first strike. I think that's probably the most important thing: Wiping out his stack, either in Louis' lands or after it makes a landing to attack me. That should matter more than taking a couple of cities.

Ideally, he'll un-vassal from Justinian (it was a peace vassaling) and vassal to me, so then it'll be Justinian trudging through someone else's culture.

not sure why you mentioned GLH conflicting with Education, because Corporation is the tech that obsoletes GLH and if you want Infantry you will need Corp btw.

I actually have no idea what I'll get after combustion. I think I've only gotten combustion once in a serious game, on an archipelago map. So I have basically no experience with anything past rifles / cannon. I have 20+ turns before combustion, though, so it probably won't come into play. Are the first aircraft good?

On airships: I've have the same experience as Keilah. They hit 1 unit for 5-20%. Great vs small stacks, like taking out a transport, but beyond that, I just use them for scouting. And would they even be able to get from my mainland to the other continent? Or do I build them over there? Is there some guide on airships?

 

[midget_roxx]

This is exactly what I'm looking for. A nice AAR on Noble> levels to see what I'm doing wrong. I get smashed on monarch
Thanks for doing this:

 

[vranasm]

you can place airships in your or friendly city anywhere on the map (you use the turn for moving ofc), that's why I said they have quickest reinforcement.

fighters are better airships in this regard (max 50% damage compared to 20% of airships).

airships can see submarines (surprisingly)

the "small damage" thing was mentioned already, but doesn't mean it's useless. They target the best defender usually and reducing (if we talk about rifles) rifles from 14 str to something between 11 and 12 is not bad...can bring you winning odds with cavs with pinch (they are 15 base x 11-12)

MG have intercept though (if I remember correctly)

You should typically take away around 15% str first airship attack, intercepting MG's are a bit problem.

Airships are interesting if you need to pin down some moving stack. AI typically stalls the stack and let it heal first...

if you have some beachhead you should have 8 airships attack at least (2 cities per 4 airships) each turn due to the overlap going on. If the terrain is favorable and you have ring cities you probably can even attack from 3 cities.

 

[Keilah]

so you can move them across the world in 1 turn? thats cool. but only 4 max per city?

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Justinian Strikes Back (Turns 670-680, Years 1550-1570 AD)

Thanks for the input everyone, and the kind words midget_roxx and others who've enjoyed this thread.

Those of you warning me that Justinian would attack soon were prescient. It starts out small:

Spoiler :

He lost more than he won, but he still won a few. And once he gets Combustion, I'll have a hard time reinforcing.

But I am pleased to see a couple of J's galleons:

Spoiler :

I lose a frigate and sink his stack. Hopefully that got rid of six land units, too.

1554: My next shipment of troops arrives to attack Tours:

Spoiler :

That includes a few 2-movers from my main stack. But Orleans isn't hurting for defense:

Spoiler :

1556: Holy cow, Justinian steals biology. Caught me totally by surprise. And he gets it at a bargain price:

Spoiler :

That's about 1/3 of the beaker cost.

Also in 1556, I take Tours. It's nothing special, but it comes with a courthouse and some other buildings, and I keep it.

Spoiler :

1558: Justinian's next stack arrives. I lose three cannon and wipe it out.

Spoiler :

The last three attackers were straight from a ship that just pulled into the harbor. I felt slick.

Also, Justinian just finished combustion. I'm nervous that he'll tech artillery next, robbing me of any military advantage. But no, he goes for medicine, because the Red Cross will totally with him this war.

1562: My first airship arrives. I never knew that it could rebase to any city, I thought it was only cities within its range. This is very cool.

It reveals very few defenders in Justinian's nearby cities:

Spoiler :

I think I should move on them.

1564: A few turns after researching Combustion, Justinian's first oil ships come out. That was fast. Of my boats, and I take a transport out at a cost of two frigates.

Spoiler :

There's a destroyer up north, though, and my wood-based Navy can't do anything against it.

But the attack continues. I capture Paris in 1566:

Spoiler :

Three settled great prophets, the two temple-boosting wonders (UoS and Minaret), and the pyramids, which might be useful for police state. (I don't swap because I need Combustion, but it's a nice option for later.)

1568: Steam power completes. Railroad in 12.

Where's the coal?

Spoiler :

No coal on my mainland. Seriously? How is it possible that three civilizations would have zero coal between them? I'm glad I kept Hammurabi's island.

As I move my stack south to attack Justinian, he moves his north to attack me.

Spoiler :

I'd moved there before taking Paris. At the time, I just wanted to keep them as far away from J's other cities as possible. I hadn't realized that clearing Louis' culture would free up roads, since all those tiles are really Justinian's culture, up to the hills 1S of Orleans.

I retreat my stack 1NW to the hill, and hunker down. I lose 2 cavalry, a rifle, and the artillery, so not too bad:

Spoiler :

The great general retreated to the city, just in case.

But my stack is in no shape to counter-attack. I'm also feeling spread thin, between defending Orleans and Paris and continuing to attack Louis. I take a break, get lunch, do some actual work, then load the game and make peace.

But first, my stack has already reached Lyons:

Spoiler :

It's not a bad city, but it's completely culture crushed, and barely commands any tiles anyway:

Spoiler :

Burn.

Now I make peace:

Spoiler :

Someone get that dude a haircut, STAT.

I knew Justinian would offer favorable terms because I checked them when he got combustion. Now I have 10 turns to consolidate, heal, and bring some new units over. Depending on what Justinian researches after medicine, I might wait until I get combustion before declaring again. We'll see.

Also this turnset: I passed the population threshold for victory:

Spoiler :

That was before Paris, even.

 

[vranasm]

hihi I vaguely counted the justy units and counted around 40 units thrown at you...lucky they came in 3 waves ;-)

too bad you had to raze lyon, looked like neat city.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Rebuilding My Stacks (Turns 680-690, Years 1570-1590 AD)

Via vranasm: Justinian threw around 40 units at me last turnset. Which makes me feel better about needing to rebuild.

First question: Are levees worth it? Let's take a typical river city:

Spoiler :

It has 9 riverside tiles. (12 if it took all of Babricate's). A levee costs 540. So it will pay off in 45 to 60 turns (depending on how many extra tiles I give it).

Which isn't bad. But it isn't great. And since my timeframe is 10-20 turns to prepare for the next war, I'll pass.

What about universities? Babricate is my best Oxford city, and adding that plus a 25% bump to my top 6 cities, I'm looking at +200 BPT:

Spoiler :

Education + buildings = 10k beakers. (1 hammer = 1 beaker). That's about 50 turns to pay off (plus 10 to research and 10 to build the unis = 70 turns from now). Again, pass. If I'd done when I defeated Zara, it would be paying off about now. Which, thinking back, was a slow part of the game and probably would have been a good idea. Oh well, too late now. I'll bulb it when i get another GS.

What about State Property? I know the real point is the food, but I'm always impressed with the maintenance savings, too.

Spoiler :

It would be about 130 GPT, with inflation is probably about 200. Which is actually really good. My 33 free specialists (Mercantilism) bring in about 200 CPT, and there's no food bonus. SP really is a great civic. I should prioritize it more next game.

Also, notice the civic upkeep. Organized would save about the same 200 (with inflation). Which is about 7% of my economy. It would be about 10% if I wasn't running Nationalism. A nice bump, if you're looking for a late-game civic.

Back to the game. In 1588, Paris comes out of resistance, and promptly starts starving:

Spoiler :

Let them eat cake!

It'll work merchants until it starves down to size. Also, I have 3 workers making farms, with more on the way.

1590: Railroad completes. Combustion in 8.

Justinian finished Medicine last turn, and goes for Assembly Line next. Infantry are good, particularly on offense, but they just seem like a much weaker move than artillery. I don't see them crushing machine guns, or standing up well to artillery. (They can cost me a couple arties, but won't hold a city). I'm not worried.

(Should I be? Like I said, I rarely get this late in techs.)

1590: I have 2 somewhat-respectable stacks:

Spoiler :

I'll need to shuffle a few older units to pressing the attack vs Louis, and probably shift a few cannon to the attack vs Justinian.

Also, Louis has an island in Justinian's territory:

Spoiler :

West side of the continent, midway down.

I'd asked my vassals to attack it, but they ignored me, landing in Justinian's mainland and getting slaughtered. That was also part of why I made peace: I couldn't eliminate Louis.

This time, I'm taking care of Marseilles myself:

Spoiler :

Two cannon, four attackers, and four frigates to bombard.

So, the plan is to declare in 4, burn Marseilles, and send one stack west and the other south. Thoughts? Like I said, I rarely make it past Steel. Would you wait for a navy first?

Edit: Change of plan. Louis is researching Physics... in 46 turns. He's no threat. I should consolidate my stacks and attack Justinian, smash his stack, then finish Louis. Or just keep going south, since I only need 7% more land to win.