Rhye's and Fall of Asia - Version 1.3

[merijn_v1]

ok just saying that because another modmod (RFC Classical World) makes the number of years per turn very little... (I know their starting date is 320BC but still....)
Shouldn't we make the mod more historical????

That mod has a complete different timescale. On normal gamespeed, an RFC game (doesn't matter which mod) a game is 500 turns. Those turns must cover our timescale, which is form 3000 BC to 1600 AD. RFCCW starts in 320 BC and ends around 800 AD. That is a lot less time in the same amount of turns.

And making each turn covering less years would be boring. You get a lot more turns in which nothing happens. You just hit enter to proceed to the next turn.

1. Don't know why Qin is at war with Zhou right at start date?
Qin actually defeated (captured Zhou around 260BC)

This is an RFC feature. Neighbouring civs have a chance to start at war with eachother. This is for several gameplay reasons.

Zhou around 800 or Qin start date should become very unstable and loses all its cities except capital to independents (NOT QIN AS QIN NEEDS TO CAPTURE IT ONE BY ONE!!!)

I don't fully support this. I support a negative stability boost when a neighbouring civs spawns. Which is already included. But I don't think that Qin should lose all their cities except the capital. That would just ruin the game.

 

[soul-breathing]

I second everything DC said already and might add a littleIf you started with the 3000BC scenario, there are mechanics designed to give the old dynasties a small chance of surviving; so it is possible, but unlikely, that you have to face the Qin or even Zhou when starting as Tang.

But still thanks for the feedback

But in fact, in 500AD scenerio, the dynasty name of Sui is also Qin Empire, I think maybe Qin and Sui use the same slot?

 

[adhiraj.bose]

hey wait, the last 100 turns get triggered in my version from 1400 onwards.. does the game end in 1600 Ad or 1500 AD ? I'm confused.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Hello! As a long time RaF-fan I discovered this gem just recently. An absolutely great mod! Many thanks for creating this mod, civ-addicted!

Here is my feedback after playing the first 10 (chronlogical) civs:

Balance:

- the following buildings seem very expensive, especially compared to the early units and in comparison in what they "do". I never build them: Silk weaver, jade carver, incese manu, batik, bath house.

- the Zhou get often killed within the first turns. Happened to me in my first try, too. Independents attack with a spearman and kill the archer defending the capital. Perhaps they should get a 2nd archer.


Bugs:

- Vietnamese scout has standard archer picture.

- Terraces do not remove forests. Intended?

- first Murya UHV requires to kill the independents (and babarians?), not only civlizations in persia/india.

- Han's UHVs should be chronically ordered.


Interface (some suggestions for "luxury-problems", most of these are in Dawn of civilization, another fantastic RaF modmod):

- It would be nice too have the turn numbers for the UHVs on the victory screen. Especially without calender it is not always possible to know how many turns are left till deadline.

- Same for being viewable if an UHV is fulfilled at the moment or not on the victory screen.

- If a tile is core/normal/instable should be viewable even with fog of war. (It works this way in RaF Dawn of Civilization.)

- In Dawn of Civilization the UHV related regions/tiles are marked as such. This makes it easier to be sure, which tiles have to conquered. (Examples: Was not sure where Burma ended for Chola and which is the "min-river" for Vietnam. Went the save way and killed the Tong.)

- A message when ressources newly appear or disappear. (Like the ones for new tech making them visible.)


Will write more feedback, when I have played the other civilizations.

And is there a stability guide for the mod, especially for the civics? Did you change other mechanisms from the base RaF?

Thanks again, for this fantastic mod!

 

[2phunkey4u]

Nanzhao: a rather casual civ to play.

UP does not work any more.
UHV #2 is tied to the capital city, not specifically Dali. I moved my capital to Chengdu to claim the MoH and did not win immediately once I settled all religions in Dali.

 

[civ-addicted]

Hello! As a long time RaF-fan I discovered this gem just recently. An absolutely great mod! Many thanks for creating this mod, civ-addicted!

Here is my feedback after playing the first 10 (chronlogical) civs:

Balance:

- the following buildings seem very expensive, especially compared to the early units and in comparison in what they "do". I never build them: Silk weaver, jade carver, incese manu, batik, bath house.

I hardly buildt them either, but with the new Silk Road mechanic they might be worth while

- the Zhou get often killed within the first turns. Happened to me in my first try, too. Independents attack with a spearman and kill the archer defending the capital. Perhaps they should get a 2nd archer.

How often? I played Qin a lot and Zhou has almost always been around

Bugs:

- Vietnamese scout has standard archer picture.

Sort of a bug, yes. The unit came out without a button, and i didn't want to use the other archer button I think i'll use the scout button, just to be save.

- Terraces do not remove forests. Intended?

Yes, otherwise they would remove jungle too. Where did you find Rice with trees on top?

- first Murya UHV requires to kill the independents (and babarians?), not only civlizations in persia/india.

The wording is a bit strange, true. I'll think of something else.

- Han's UHVs should be chronically ordered.

It's the text that's crooked The first 2's deadline is 600 AD. Regard it as fixed.

Interface (some suggestions for "luxury-problems", most of these are in Dawn of civilization, another fantastic RaF modmod):

- It would be nice too have the turn numbers for the UHVs on the victory screen. Especially without calender it is not always possible to know how many turns are left till deadline.

No Problem, can be added.

- Same for being viewable if an UHV is fulfilled at the moment or not on the victory screen.

That looks like a lot of work. I look it up how Leoreth handles it

- If a tile is core/normal/instable should be viewable even with fog of war. (It works this way in RaF Dawn of Civilization.)

Do you mean the shady part or the dark part? First: yes, second: no

- In Dawn of Civilization the UHV related regions/tiles are marked as such. This makes it easier to be sure, which tiles have to conquered. (Examples: Was not sure where Burma ended for Chola and which is the "min-river" for Vietnam. Went the save way and killed the Tong.)

Ha, that's the spirit Again, i would have to look into DoC's sourcecode to see how much it takes.

- A message when ressources newly appear or disappear. (Like the ones for new tech making them visible.)

True.

Will write more feedback, when I have played the other civilizations.

And is there a stability guide for the mod, especially for the civics? Did you change other mechanisms from the base RaF?

Not yet, but maybe in a bit
General changes? Mercenaries are removed, the stabiliy module had to be modified a little to fit the more detailed map (more cities -> more economic output -> higher economy stability), and the addition of a Silk Road mechanic, the Mandate of Heaven and the chinese civil war, but aside from that i try to stay faithful to the formula

Thanks again, for this fantastic mod!

No, i thank you for the feedback. Really helpful

Nanzhao: a rather casual civ to play.

UP does not work any more.
UHV #2 is tied to the capital city, not specifically Dali. I moved my capital to Chengdu to claim the MoH and did not win immediately once I settled all religions in Dali.

I didn't do anything with Nanzhao in a very long time, and i did't fumble with the UP. Maybe there was a python exception before the code and escaped before it got to the Nanzhao UP part, that would be my first guess.
True, i didn't consider that some might move the capital -___- The plan is to settle them in Dali of course. The code will need to be changed

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

On Zhou:

I have no exact number, but as I said was killed in my first Zhou game and Zhou was not present in my Qin game. Watched the replays in my other games and saw they "often" vanished before Qin.

Although observed Korea dying in around 1/2 my games within it's first turns: Probably attacking the independents/Barbs with it's swordmen leaving Pyongyang only with one archer and wuups. Perhaps a 2nd archer?


On Rice on trees: (Looked with WB)
1. Chola capital
2. S-China (NE of Vietnam)
3. W-China (near Chengdu)

- If a tile is core/normal/instable should be viewable even with fog of war. (It works this way in RaF Dawn of Civilization.)
Do you mean the shady part or the dark part? First: yes, second: no

Shady part, meaning discovered but unmonitored at the moment.


Thanks for your quick reply!

 

[SanJose]

Nanzhao's 2nd UHV requires "only major" or "major+minor" religions?

 

[2phunkey4u]

Only the major ones.

The UHV tracking in the victory screen originally is from SoI, isn't it? I rarely play DoC, so I can't say if there's a difference and one implementation is better than the other. But in general it really is a brilliant feature.

 

[merijn_v1]

I hardly buildt them either, but with the new Silk Road mechanic they might be worth while

I think more buildings could be balanced, especially the religious buildings. I'm planning to revise this soon. I will post a list of my ideas, so my ideas can be discussed.

The unit came out without a button, and i didn't want to use the other archer button I think i'll use the scout button, just to be save.

This isn't the only strange button. I have a reorganization of the unitstyles in mind. The buttons will change as well with this.

Yes, otherwise they would remove jungle too. Where did you find Rice with trees on top?

This is not true. It's possible to let the terrace remove forests, without removing jungle. This shouldn't be the case ofcourse, as rice shouldn't be on forest tiles.

Ha, that's the spirit Again, i would have to look into DoC's sourcecode to see how much it takes.

I think the province system of SoI and RFCE would fit this mod better. Not only do they show the required area for the UHV, they do a lot of other things as well.

 

[DC123456789]

I think the province system of SoI and RFCE would fit this mod better. Not only do they show the required area for the UHV, they do a lot of other things as well.

I agree. It makes stability maps so much simpler.

 

[kun5979]

1.When playing as Tang dynasty,i find it unworthy to expand to the westward(far and few resources).So the silk route is coming in the right time but not good enough, i hope we could bulid some specific facilitieson on map to benefit,to show the essentiality of controlling the west desert lands.

2.About Chinese Civil wars,A new chinese civ,except for human player,should not spawn if the stability is high,and should spawn in its core area whenever the stability is low.For example,when Tang falls,Song will spawn in Kaifeng and Ming in Nanjing at the same time,and Zhou,Qin,Han as well(to take good advantage of the dead civs,their tech should be with the era).

 

[adhiraj.bose]

In my last Chalukya game, the UHV goal for making Vatapi the most important city got checked in 756 AD . Why ?

 

[civ-addicted]

This isn't the only strange button. I have a reorganization of the unitstyles in mind. The buttons will change as well with this.

And we shouldn't forget about Bakuel's indian units. Might not be news to you but it did get me on the wrong foot last week

Spoiler :

Basically, Harappa, Ghaznavids and Delhi stay mostly the same (might be really just a personal thing, but i prefer the mesopotamian style for Harappa because it gives them a unique one in the end), because Bakuel's ME units are superb as well
Maurya and Gupta get one (i called it Aryan so far), and change Maurya's unique unit to the Gada Clubman, replacing the swordsman
Chalukya and Chola get the Dravidian part mostly, but since there are Deccan units, we rather split them in Deccan and Tamil respectivly.
I put down my ideas in a google spreadsheet already, let me know if you want to discuss it or get spoilered in general

The only reason i didn't implement it yet is because i try pretty hard to make the damn silk road thing thing to work.

 

[merijn_v1]

Leave the unitartstyles to me. You can focus on other things.

I will first inventorise what we have and then start reorganizing and updating. This won't be done within 1 day, but it gives me a nice small project to work on.

I want to subdivide the civs into the following artstyles:

Spoiler :

Chinese
- Han
- Qin
- Zhou
- Ming
- Song
- Tang
- Sui


South East Asia
- Burma
- Butuan
- Khmer
- Majapahit
- Nanzhao
- Siam
- Sri Vijaya
- Vietnam

India
- Chalukya
- Chola
- Gupta
- Harappa (only the early units)
- Maurya

Arabic
- Delhi
- Ghaznavids

Mongol
- Gokturks (could be a seperate style, as they are turkish, not mongol)
- Jurchen
- Mongols
- Yuezhi (only the early units)

Persian
- Hephtalits

Greek
- Indo Greeks

Japan
- Japan

Korea
- Korea

Tibet
- Tibet

 

[civ-addicted]

1.When playing as Tang dynasty,i find it unworthy to expand to the westward(far and few resources).So the silk route is coming in the right time but not good enough, i hope we could bulid some specific facilitieson on map to benefit,to show the essentiality of controlling the west desert lands.

With the core mechanics in Civ 4 you can't really reflect the importance of a certain region; think of the Cape of Good Hope in RFC, who ever considered settling there for being a nice spot. So this sounds like a nice idea but is hardly implementable. And just scattering around resources would make the area too juicy to settle instead of the barren desert that it really is (no offense).
I can't say now how the new silk road mechanics will work out, but getting one or 2 extra camels could make it worth

2.About Chinese Civil wars,A new chinese civ,except for human player,should not spawn if the stability is high,and should spawn in its core area whenever the stability is low.For example,when Tang falls,Song will spawn in Kaifeng and Ming in Nanjing at the same time,and Zhou,Qin,Han as well(to take good advantage of the dead civs,their tech should be with the era).

In general, i would agree. I thought of letting old chinese dynasties respawn in a traditional RFC manner, but that would need take a lot of time to code and playtest to make something presentable. Propably in the future, but for now there are other urgent matters.

In my last Chalukya game, the UHV goal for making Vatapi the most important city got checked in 756 AD . Why ?

It's meant to check in 760 AD, the text for the victory screen is crooked. Fixed.

 

[2phunkey4u]

Played Göktürks today. An interesting civ to play.

Capital name "Issyk Kul" is weird.
Shinto spread into my cities early. Weirder.
The culture bar in th city screen was never properly displayed and the civ scores stayed in the foreground, overlapping with GP assignment.

 

[civ-addicted]

Played Göktürks today. An interesting civ to play.

Capital name "Issyk Kul" is weird.

I just saw that we changed the cityname manager, that spot is actually supposed to be called Suyab, the capital of the Western Turkic Khaganate.

Shinto spread into my cities early. Weirder.

I found that already, but couldn't find the reason for that The spread mechanisms for Minor Religions will be revised soon, that's why i didn't found it to be unbearable, honestly. But it will be fixed in the foreseeable future, maybe within 2 weeks or so.

The culture bar in th city screen was never properly displayed and the civ scores stayed in the foreground, overlapping with GP assignment.

Do you have Python Exceptions enabled? If not, that just means that an error occured and exited the method before it could hide the civ score board.
I had to modify the city screen for the Gokturk and Tang UP, that's why there might be errors in the first place

 

[SanJose]

In my Burmese's game AI Thai moved all troops from Sukhotai to siege Paigu, so i free razed this weird city.

Spoiler :

Also Hephthalite Empire still alive, wins twice Election Buddhist Council

 

[civ-addicted]

In my Burmese's game AI Thai moved all troops from Sukhotai to siege Paigu, so i free razed this weird city.

Spoiler :

"It is known" (Dothraki proverb). That's an old but that Rhye encountered already and has never came to fix it You would need to dug in really deep into the AI... There should be some way to force the AI to keep some defenders though. I try to look into it someday, in the meantime, try to play fair