lumpthing
generic lump
That's weird. Well if it still doesn't work tomorrow just post here and I'll add it to the wiki on your behalf.
Rhye's and Fall RAND: Preview #2
- Thread starter Rhye
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lumpthing
generic lump
I added Fierabras' Dutch changes and The_Coyote's German changes to the wiki: http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-rand-suggested-city-lists
Fierabras
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
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Thanks for adding, lumpthing. Could you please make one more change?
Den Haag should be it's original founding name 's-Gravenhage. Although most people know it as The Hague (Den Haag) today, I think it fits better with the naming convention Rhye is using. Secondly, 's-Gravenhage (= the count's hedge) is more consistent with 's-Hertogenbosch (= the duke's forest), which is also known as Den Bosch.
Den Haag should be it's original founding name 's-Gravenhage. Although most people know it as The Hague (Den Haag) today, I think it fits better with the naming convention Rhye is using. Secondly, 's-Gravenhage (= the count's hedge) is more consistent with 's-Hertogenbosch (= the duke's forest), which is also known as Den Bosch.
lumpthing
generic lump
I took the liberty of implementing the Haag/Gravenhage switch Fierabras recommended and including the full rationale in the notes.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
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- Sep 21, 2007
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- 4,878
Updated the Chinese city list. Taiyuan should be added (very ancient and several emperors came from that city). Also Taiwan is a good source of non home-continental cities.
Metal Alloy Man
Back in Black
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Just to let you guys know, I really think Trabzon(Trebizond) is needed for the Turkish list and should be left off the Greek list considering it's part of the Turkish heartland. Shouldn't Shiraz be on the Persian list as well? Algiers should also be removed from the Turkish list as it was founded by the Arabians and represents the Moors who I consider to be more Arabian than Turkish. I also think Singapore should be added to the Khmer list.
Metal Alloy Man
Back in Black
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Also I think Singapore should be added to the Khmer list.
Ok, now I have a wikidot account, and in the next days I'll update the Roman list.
I was thinking of putting the Sicilian and Sardinian cities as extra-continental: they are totally Italian, but the Romans considered them provinces, not a core part of the empire. Opinions?
As far as I know, the Khmer had nothing to do with Singapore. Correct me if I am wrong here.
I would say it should be English, if anything. I know it had a history before the British, but not with any civ in the game [I don't know if the Dutch or Portuguese had anything to do with Singapore, but it wasn't as important as the British].
Trebizond is on both and should probably be removed from the Greek.
Algiers is currently on both the Carthage and Turkish lists. I agree it shouldn't be Turkish, but whether it should be Carthaginian or Arab, I don't really know, but would likely pick Carthage.
Shiraz agreed, unless it is already there under a different name.
I would say it should be English, if anything. I know it had a history before the British, but not with any civ in the game [I don't know if the Dutch or Portuguese had anything to do with Singapore, but it wasn't as important as the British].
Trebizond is on both and should probably be removed from the Greek.
Algiers is currently on both the Carthage and Turkish lists. I agree it shouldn't be Turkish, but whether it should be Carthaginian or Arab, I don't really know, but would likely pick Carthage.
Shiraz agreed, unless it is already there under a different name.
Úmarth
Megalomaniac
Once again I'm conscious I'm not Italian, but I would say don't. Your reasoning is sound, but there are already a tonne of cities for the extra-continental list from the non-Italian provinces (I could fill it up with cities from Britain alone).
Metal Alloy Man
Back in Black
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I kinda agree with Umarth here as well, the Roman Empire was so large I'm pretty sure we should have enough cities from other areas of the empire. Of course you could add them as part of the core empire which is what I'd do if I were you.
Metal Alloy Man
Back in Black
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@Say 1988
Singapura is almost always part of the Khmer Empire in my games and is much more Khmer than British in my opinion because it was founded by a southeast asian people similar to the Khmer, not the British, remember it has to be founded by the civ in order for it to be on the list. I think we should leave this for Rhye to decide but remember, Singapura is almost always Khmer in RFC and I've never it seen it being British ever in RFC. Remember RFC gameplay can affect these lists as well.
Singapura is almost always part of the Khmer Empire in my games and is much more Khmer than British in my opinion because it was founded by a southeast asian people similar to the Khmer, not the British, remember it has to be founded by the civ in order for it to be on the list. I think we should leave this for Rhye to decide but remember, Singapura is almost always Khmer in RFC and I've never it seen it being British ever in RFC. Remember RFC gameplay can affect these lists as well.
Nope. There are plenty of cities founded by other civs. London, Boston, Istanbul, Paris, Kiev, just to name a few.
It is not about who controls in in RFC, this discussion is about history. From my knowledge Singapore was founded by southeast Asian people, but not the Khmer. It was ruled by Malays, until European control.
It was the primary British possession in south-east Asia and was hugely important trading post and military base.
A big question is about barb and independent cities spawning. It could also be one of those, but I would put it as British.
Metal Alloy Man
Back in Black
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@Say 1988
Yes I understand your point but the general idea is to have the city founded by the civ that it was historically founded by and of course there will be exceptions. As for who controls it in RFC, yes it does matter, remember in the initial post Rhye was going to send people RFC settler maps, this proves my point. I do understand that Singapore was an important outpost for the British but if we give it to them than we might as well give all the French colonies in Indochina to the French which would be wrong, because France didn't found them. Also, remember that we don't want rampant exceptions and that the Malays are much more like the Khmer than the British. England has enough other overseas that we can use anyway.
Yes I understand your point but the general idea is to have the city founded by the civ that it was historically founded by and of course there will be exceptions. As for who controls it in RFC, yes it does matter, remember in the initial post Rhye was going to send people RFC settler maps, this proves my point. I do understand that Singapore was an important outpost for the British but if we give it to them than we might as well give all the French colonies in Indochina to the French which would be wrong, because France didn't found them. Also, remember that we don't want rampant exceptions and that the Malays are much more like the Khmer than the British. England has enough other overseas that we can use anyway.
wilcoxchar
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
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I would like to suggest that Jeddah (either Ǧiddah in Latinized Arabic or Jeddah as is now used on official Saudi maps) be added to the list of the Arabian continental coastal cities, if not being made the first one. The city of Jeddah is the main point of arrival for pilgrims to Mecca and has been a major Red Sea port throughout its history since the founding of the port in 647. It is also now the second-largest city in Saudi Arabia behind Riyadh and is considered the commercial capital of Saudi Arabia.
EDIT: Also, are there any lists that haven't been done or need adding to? I'd be glad to help with this and am greatly looking forward to the mod!
EDIT: Also, are there any lists that haven't been done or need adding to? I'd be glad to help with this and am greatly looking forward to the mod!
Keep in mind that the Arabs aren't Saudi Arabia. That would be included, but they encompass the various Arab caliphates, and other states.
I don't know for sure, but I believe Riyadh was not a particularly important city until fairly recently. Jeddah, I have only heard of and know nothing about.
I don't know for sure, but I believe Riyadh was not a particularly important city until fairly recently. Jeddah, I have only heard of and know nothing about.
wilcoxchar
Warlord
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I do realize that the Arabs aren't just Saudi Arabia, but Jeddah has been important throughout its history as one of, if not the, major Red Sea port on the Arabian Peninsula. It probably isn't well known because Islamic history isn't covered very well in the western education system.say1998 said:
Also, I found Riyadh in the city list and if Riyadh is in there, then Jeddah should be too.
I added Algiers to the Turks - I can remove it. Done
Singapore was never Khmer. At the same time, some of the Vietnamese cities (in French Indochina) were - Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City/ Prey Nokor being the most obvious example (the Vietnamese still call the city Prey Nokor, 250 years after they lost it).
Shiraz is the Persian Sirajis - I realized that when I did the list. Since Rhye evidently already knew this (from the game), I decided not to add it to the wiki. If you want, I will add it. Done - Note: Sirajis isn't actually a port, so it's in Category 1.
Since some of the civs didn't have a list, I did lists for all that had been left out (finished with Persians and Aztecs, Greeks as well; added some Turkish names, especially for Categories 3 and 4). Wilcoxchar, you can always add to the lists if you want; just take a look at them. I'll add Jeddah to the Arabic list if it's missing. Done
Also: added Saida (Sidon) to the Arab list. I don't believe it's on any other ones right now... Tyre, Acre (Akko), and Byblos can also be used, but whether Persian, Arabic, Turkish - I don't know.
Singapore was never Khmer. At the same time, some of the Vietnamese cities (in French Indochina) were - Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City/ Prey Nokor being the most obvious example (the Vietnamese still call the city Prey Nokor, 250 years after they lost it).
Shiraz is the Persian Sirajis - I realized that when I did the list. Since Rhye evidently already knew this (from the game), I decided not to add it to the wiki. If you want, I will add it. Done - Note: Sirajis isn't actually a port, so it's in Category 1.
Since some of the civs didn't have a list, I did lists for all that had been left out (finished with Persians and Aztecs, Greeks as well; added some Turkish names, especially for Categories 3 and 4). Wilcoxchar, you can always add to the lists if you want; just take a look at them. I'll add Jeddah to the Arabic list if it's missing. Done
Also: added Saida (Sidon) to the Arab list. I don't believe it's on any other ones right now... Tyre, Acre (Akko), and Byblos can also be used, but whether Persian, Arabic, Turkish - I don't know.
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