Rhye's Catapult

[Barak]

I am testing 0.11 as India (not much in production there, but TONS of resources).

So far so good, until France failed to spawn due to the Roman's destroying the barb city that had grown in Paris' location. China for the second time has expanded north prior to expanding south. Also the Greeks were smart enough to settle Constantinople this time (they didnt my first go through as Rome)

 

[V. Soma]

I think a possible solution is decrease tech rate and try to reduce India, China and Egyptian gold income somehow else at the same time

On my way here to the workplace (60-70 mins long) I was thinking about this...
Yes, Rhye, I think that the way you suggest is the logical solution...

I was thinking that
1.
Europe could be given a special civics or something that enhances gold income
2.
There could be an economic penalty for large empires like the ones in Asia...

I thought both 1. and 2. could be tied to a specific historical era,
or that these factors should be made specific for eras, or something...

Now, maybe it is all the same to give plus money to Europe
or to take away from the big ones...
it is just the question how we set the tech rate.

Yes, lowering the tech rate seems to be more elegant and simple,
because then only the big empires have to be "cut" economically.

So it is 2. that have to be solved...

I believe there could be a combination of factors
that lead to "financial punishment":

- population
- land size
- number of cities

Well, what we have to find out is the following:
how do these three factors "behave" in case Europeans and the others?
If there is a "setting" of these that is characteristic only of the big Asians,
then we can set "penalty" for those civs with this setting.

Eg.: it may be that it is specifically characteristic for China, India and maybe Egypt, Persia that:

- big land size
- big total population
- big number of cities (more than 5 in AD 1000, for example)

(all at the same time)

What is considered to be "big" should be checked again and again at certain eras or turn #, and adjusted...
...and the "big" ones could have penalty factor "turned on"...

I am just rambling and fumbling - I hope you can follow it...

EDIT:
In the afternoon I will try to gather data in tests of how the land/pop/cities go and differ for the civs

 

[Rhye]

I remember in Rhye's mod for Civ3 that this specifically was made impossible. Maybe something to consider for this map too...

in RoC as here a sea route was impossible, while a land route was possible but very hard because of barbarian camps.
I'm adding some barbarians then

 

[V. Soma]

in RoC as here a sea route was impossible, while a land route was possible but very hard because of barbarian camps.
I'm adding some barbarians then

Rhye, check the sea route, too... isn't there an all-the-way coastal link?

 

[Rhye]

idea: i could rise their handicap level. Not very fair, but could work

 

[Rhye]

Rhye, check the sea route, too... isn't there an all-the-way coastal link?

the north passage is blocked by ice.
The south one...maybe it needs some barb galleys

 

[V. Soma]

Rhye, weekend is coming... we'll we have a new toy to play with?

 

[Blasphemous]

Hey everybody... I'm in Germany now (since April 2) and will be staying here until the end of the month (longer than originally planned). I've only read up to page 11 (@20/p), my apologies if I'm missing something here.
Glad to hear the new patch is out and that the mod is finally being tested... It's kinda too hard to follow all of the playtesting so I'm gonna stop trying... I'll try and just jump in when I'm back home with my trusty ol' computational machine.

 

[Rhye]

Rhye, weekend is coming... we'll we have a new toy to play with?

sure, maybe tonight

 

[Lachlan]

Cool i will wait for it

 

[Barak]

One reason why India can expand quickly is as an organized leader Asoka gets the 50% reduction to civic upkeep. Once I built my 6th and 7th cities I naturally could continue to run at 90 or 100%.

Also an observation on religion while playing India. I founded Hinduism, build Stonehenge, and used the first great prophet to found Theology (granting me Christianity). This is only important as it was done prior to the spawning of the West Euro civs. If we desire Christianity to be founded in Europe, could we restrict that and Islam to certain civs only?

 

[Vishaing]

Currently I think the biggest weakness Europe has is not whether or not the older powers have more cities, but the fact that the older power's cities are already built and improved as is their terrain. The European powers can't say that, so I would suggest the addition of more barbarian cities, like what you did for Mesopotamia as they would build a few improvments. OR, we could modify the unit list to give the European powers a 'special settler' unit that would establish a city with a ton of buildings in it already. I'm pretty sure that's what the settlers in the XX mod do, as European founded cities start with a bunch of buildings, but it didn't seem that other cities did.

Perhaps we could start a newly founded civ's newly founded cities off with a plus of 300 production reserve, or however much is needed, to let them build a few buildings right off the bat to serve whatever needs they, well, need.

Oh, and yes, in my last two games France didn't spawn, but I noticed that both times Rome went up and burned Lutetia to the ground. I think I'm going to try it as the Romans and try right before they spawn put a bunch of well developped barbarian cities in their areas to test what's more important, cities or techs.

 

[V. Soma]

Currently I think the biggest weakness Europe has is not whether or not the older powers have more cities, but the fact that the older power's cities are already built and improved as is their terrain.

Yes.

The European powers can't say that, so I would suggest the addition of more barbarian cities, like what you did for Mesopotamia as they would build a few improvments. OR, we could modify the unit list to give the European powers a 'special settler' unit that would establish a city with a ton of buildings in it already. I'm pretty sure that's what the settlers in the XX mod do, as European founded cities start with a bunch of buildings, but it didn't seem that other cities did.

Perhaps we could start a newly founded civ's newly founded cities off with a plus of 300 production reserve, or however much is needed, to let them build a few buildings right off the bat to serve whatever needs they, well, need.

Oh, and yes, in my last two games France didn't spawn, but I noticed that both times Rome went up and burned Lutetia to the ground. I think I'm going to try it as the Romans and try right before they spawn put a bunch of well developped barbarian cities in their areas to test what's more important, cities or techs.

I have also thought about it a lot, and barb cities that would turn to be cities of the newcomers
seem to be a strong idea, as It would give the needed
developed land and also big population at start!

But how do you prevent the old civs taking the tasty barb cities?
How do you make sure these barbs do not cause too much trouble to the old civs?

Perhaps some special features could make it, like:

- giving barb cities extra defense bonus
- maybe also defense bonus for civs's cities against barbs...

- do some change and let barbs develop more faster in tech than they do now

- not letting certain civs' units go to certain geographic areas
(this could be coded as settling is coded, and be set for certain eras)

 

[Rhye]

before seeing how it works in the next version (that contains different handicap levels), can you report some late game maps or events? (especially about colonization: I'm interested in seeing if civs have respected their broader coordinates)

 

[V. Soma]

OK, Rhye, I try to make a test that long

BTW, I like the idea of different handicaps...
...and maybe making barb civs well developed is not a really historic concept... I dunno...

 

[Barak]

Rhye, are there particular civs you would liek us to test as?

 

[V. Soma]

Well, well, I see

- A Roman founded city (Ravenna) at the very north end of the map east of Scandinavia at the Ice Block

- There is also a Japanese city there at the north Ice Block (Nara)

- There is another Japanese city north of the Gobi desert in Asia

- There is an Arabian city (Baghdad) at Lake Victoria in Africa
/That may be accepted/

 

[V. Soma]

Rhye, are there particular civs you would liek us to test as?

I always paly the tests as the Incans - I just put down the capital,
set it on some quechua and thus I don not cause trouble to the AIs, nor myself.

 

[Barak]

thats a good idea.....hadn't thought of it that way.

 

[V. Soma]

Yay, I am to report English settling on the shores of South America!

EDIT: England has also a colony in the middle of Africa

Japan has one city on New Zealand.

India in Sumatra, I guess.

Also there was some meeting of settlers - of 5 nations on Madagascar!
The Arabs "won" the city (in 1844).
What I am not sure about: did the other civs' settlers stand there doing nothing?

Well, a pic of this, anyway, see below