Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Blasphemous]

1. For the third time, remove the Armoured Car! It's just... not even sensible. Replace it with Mobile Infantry; that is what is needed.

I agree, and no Rhye, me and Sh3kel both wanted Mobile Infantry, not an armored car.
Mobile Infantry should be 8.6.2 (or 8.5.1), while regular Infantry should be 7.7.1. And modern infantry should get 2 movement as well.
About an animation, just anything that shows WW-era infantry in a vehicle. Best if it would get out of the thing before fighting (the vehicles were used to transport the infantry between places where they fought, they didn't actually fight while in the car/on the bike).

4. About cruise missiles: If you are going to do anything with these, make them cheaper. Personally, I'd just remove them and give certain naval units their bombard rating. I don't use them, the AI doesn't use them, and while elaborating on them is cool, I don't think it'd change anything.

Agreed. No point in keeping a unit that nobody uses, and making them so cheap that they are widely used would make them overpowered. Their current price is pretty fair, it's just such a bother to use them...

5. About drafting: One thing I realized this past week was that although drafting may date back into prehistory, mobilization does not, and the unfortunate thing about Civ3 is that it requires you to be mobilized before you can draft anyone. You might want to consider moving drafting back to Nationalism. Not nice, I know, but it's just a constraint placed on you by the game.

It is possible to draft when not mobilized, I've done it many times. =|

->I don't agree with the point on the goverments. "rural" monarchies are represented by the Feudal Monarchy; the rest of the monarchies are divided by the power (theocratic, absolute, constutional) instead of the size. The size would mean dividing Signorie/Principati as small monarchies from medium sized monarchies and large empires.
The same with republic: the "city state" should be the smallest form.
But there is absolutely no way to privilegiate small nations rather than large, with the editor. Check yourself: there is no way. A large empire is always better for any government,

Well, you could always make a very very powerful gov't that has the highest level of corruption... That would cripple larger nations but benefit small ones.

Don't need a new animation, just give modern infantry a movement of 2.

Mobile Infantry is a proposed post-WWI unit, not a modern unit. Modern Inf should still have a movement of 2, and also airdrop with a range of 3.

I count at least 3 people against the Armoured car. Mech Inf doesn't need or deserve a progenitor. Put the first tank in Mot Transport and you have room for two tank upgrades.

It's not that mech inf needs a progenitor, it's that during WWII Infantry was driven from place to place very often, rather than marching. Mob Inf also is a much more appropriate mo-trans rubber unit than the armored car.

 

[Asclepius]

In that case we have again the same problem.
If a tank goes in Mot. Trasnport, then it is a MKIV or similar. You already refused that possibility.

Why does it have to be a WWI era tank? The time line isn't that rigid and as I've said before units are around longer than the date in which a particular tech is researched so a general early tank (but NOT as early as WWI) is still appropriate.

 

[Asclepius]

Mobile Infantry is a proposed post-WWI unit, not a modern unit. Modern Inf should still have a movement of 2, and also airdrop with a range of 3.

Ahh, I see. In which case I disagree. I don't believe the scale of the map is large enough to show truck mounted troops, Most WWII era troops weren't mobile enough to warrant keeping up with tanks. For example a lot of German troops which were supposed to be motorized had nothing more than a bicycle. Agree with the Modern Inf stats though.

It's not that mech inf needs a progenitor, it's that during WWII Infantry was driven from place to place very often, rather than marching. Mob Inf also is a much more appropriate mo-trans rubber unit than the armored car.

I hate to say I have to disagree again but only the Brits and Americans were truly motorized but only by the end of 1944. Also motorized forces dismounted well away from the front line so basically they should act as ordinary foot soldiers but if you give them a movement of greater than 1 then they will retreat from combat against slower units. This is not realistic.

 

[Rhye]

Ahh, I see. In which case I disagree.

I hate to say I have to disagree again

No, really we're not going very far in this way...I won't accept any requests if your opinion is fragmented...

 

[Rhye]

The industrial tech tree ends and the modern one begins in the '20s/30s.

So in the mot. tranportation place the only tank can be a WWI (MKIV) or post WWI light tank (Renault FT17)

 

[Asclepius]

LOL, this is going nowhere :shakehead

How about we skip the unit.. .... and try to fix the more serious problems with this mod. i.e. the fact that the AI doesn't seem to colonize anymore. Or the fact that colonies have no effect on the game.

 

[Blasphemous]

Doesn't colonize anymore?! In my game as england, it's just almost 1300, I just recently reached Africa with my first Caravel, and at least most of the western coast is colonized by the Europeans. I even saw a Galley off the coast that had just dropped off a settling pack iirc. This means they didn't even wait for magnetism to colonize.

EDIT: And my first colonizing party will set out next turn, so we'll see just how much colonies matter.

 

[Asclepius]

Doesn't colonize anymore?! In my game as england, it's just almost 1300, I just recently reached Africa with my first Caravel, and at least most of the western coast is colonized by the Europeans. I even saw a Galley off the coast that had just dropped off a settling pack iirc. This means they didn't even wait for magnetism to colonize.

EDIT: And my first colonizing party will set out next turn, so we'll see just how much colonies matter.

It seems to vary a lot from game to game but how many developed colonies do you ever see in the Americas or Australia, the areas that are not connected to the Euro starting locations? Most of the time there are none in Australia and only a handful of non productive single states in Latin America.

 

[Blasphemous]

Well, soon enough I'll find out when the Americas and Australia get discovered...

 

[onedreamer]

It's not that mech inf needs a progenitor, it's that during WWII Infantry was driven from place to place very often, rather than marching. Mob Inf also is a much more appropriate mo-trans rubber unit than the armored car.

What you are describing is true but you are implementing it in a completely wrong way. The movement bonus in this game is not just what the word says, it is also a "retreat" ability that infantry should not get in any way. This bonus is meant for units that always have a superior movement ability toward others, and not just when driven. Infantry in WW2 was driven from place to place and that's all... they didn't fight from up their transport vehicles. This means they should be just infantry as they infact are (ie footsoldiers), and you should instead implement a ground transport that can load them to reflect what you described in the quote.

 

[onedreamer]

I voted I don't like the map.
While the map itself is not badly done, there are too many european civs in the game (+ you must include Austria) and too few space for them on this map.

just my personal opinion ^^

 

[Blasphemous]

Hmmm... You have a point...
Since the AI cannot deal with land transports, perhaps the underused paradrop ability should be renamed "rapid transport" and the icon altered to show both a parachute and a car, and then Infantry can upgrade to Mobile Infantry with motorized transport, which has the same stats (and even the same animation), costs 5 shields more, and has rapid transport with a range of 2. This would then upgrade to Modern Infantry with the stats it has now but with an added rapid transport of 3. TOW could also get rapid transport of 2 (useful for defensing minor objectives near a city in a rush.)
IIRC, paradrop requires an airport... Since airports already have little use for a contiguous developed nation that's not at war, and even at war the benefits are minimal, maybe we should rename airport to something else that would represent rapid transport as well as flight... Or airport could require the thingy that allows rapid transport, and become a cheap building for air trade only.

 

[Aeon221]

Hmmm... You have a point...
Since the AI cannot deal with land transports, perhaps the underused paradrop ability should be renamed "rapid transport" and the icon altered to show both a parachute and a car, and then Infantry can upgrade to Mobile Infantry with motorized transport, which has the same stats (and even the same animation), costs 5 shields more, and has rapid transport with a range of 2. This would then upgrade to Modern Infantry with the stats it has now but with an added rapid transport of 3. TOW could also get rapid transport of 2 (useful for defensing minor objectives near a city in a rush.)
IIRC, paradrop requires an airport... Since airports already have little use for a contiguous developed nation that's not at war, and even at war the benefits are minimal, maybe we should rename airport to something else that would represent rapid transport as well as flight... Or airport could require the thingy that allows rapid transport, and become a cheap building for air trade only.

No.

Just no.

Railroads already represent rapid transit. Mobile infantry seems goofy. Just leave the modern infantry units alone. They work fine!

AND airports give tons of benefits. I dunno about you, but I like being able to build veteran bombers and rapid drop massive armies into cities I captured with those bombers and some strategic paradropping.

If I thought the AI could handle it, I would request a massive cargo plane that could rebase with troops in it to replace the airlift ability... but since they cant its hardly worth mentioning.

Ohh, et Byzantium delenda est! haha mutilated some Cicero ;p

 

[Gunner]

About an animation for a German infantry UU, have you looked at the one used by the Germans in the Age of Imperialism scenario? Its pretty good and seems very "German."

 

[Rhye]

I voted I don't like the map.
While the map itself is not badly done, there are too many european civs in the game (+ you must include Austria) and too few space for them on this map.

just my personal opinion ^^

well take a look at the other Earth maps in the forum...you'll change your mind

 

[Horton]

Rhye,

My current test game is as Russia and I am finding the Cossack to be overpowered. 6/5/2 makes it a nearly unstoppable unit in its era. The 5 defense allows them to roam freely deep within enemy territory with little fear of effective counterattack by the AI. No horse unit should have that much defense, please consider moving their defense to 3 and giving them the ability to blitz or perhaps make them cheaper.

Also, I really think there needs to be an increase on attack power for the medieval militia unit that comes with feudalism. As it is, there is no good foot attacker with an strength over 3 until very late in the medieval era. This creates a huge reliance on horse or artillery to defeat 4 defense muskets and then fusiliers. A civ without iron and horses really has little hope of making any headway at all until they can mass produce fusiliers and terbuchets/cannons. We need a 4 attack foot unit available early to Mid medieval era.

In my Roman test game, I had to use 3/3/1 legions from early in the ancient era until I could build fusiliers, way too long a life for an ancient unit IMO.

 

[Rhye]

Thanks Horton.
I'll consider putting the man-at-arms back as a middle step between swordsman and colonial inf., and lower cossacks defense to 4.

Have you read the last pages?
What do you think of the zeppelin, of the armoured car/mobile infantry and of modern jets/modern bombers?
I'd be glad to hear your opinion.

 

[Aeon221]

I voted I don't like the map.
While the map itself is not badly done, there are too many european civs in the game (+ you must include Austria) and too few space for them on this map.

just my personal opinion ^^

While I disagree completely about what he thinks about the map (its so good that other people have used it!), I do agree that there are too many Euro/ME civs... but you know what I am going to say already, dont you Neo ;p

Byzantium... Byzantium... Byzantium... must... die... ;p

PS: Writing a vicious attack on Rousseau for my Euro paper. Its delightful! ;p The man says more wrong things than I DO! hahaaha

 

[Khift]

About Mobile Infantry: Crap, I'd forgotten about retreat. With that... well, yeah, it is a little insubstantiated. And the rapid transport thing wouldn't work well. Too complicated.

Either way, the Armoured Car is bunk. (And railroads don't represent motorized transportation, silly, they represent infrastructure. The thing about railroads is that they can't go off track and into enemy territory!)

It is possible to draft when not mobilized, I've done it many times. =|

Gah! Shows you how often I draft in-game...


About my government idea: Size had nothing to do with it. Just where the power lied and how advanced the techniques were. If the power lay with the king solely and the people were organized into large cities, it'd be urban, if the power lay in the nobles and the people organized into manors, it'd be feudal. Just that simple. I simply suggested a differentiation between ancient urban monarchies which were little better than despotisms (Rome, for example) and the post renaissance monarchies (Absolute and Constitutional monarchies come to mind). There would be three monarchies: Ancient Urban, Feudal, and Baroque Urban. Names could be changed, of course, this is just theory.

Nothing to do with size. It's just a simpler and more streamlined system.


About the Cossacks: SOMETHING needs to be done about this unit! It just keeps getting shafted and dejected in it's every rendition. 6.5.2 is too powerful. 6.4.3 is too useless. 6.3.3 + blitz is too weak. 8.3.3 is too redundant (Sipahi).

I'd suggest 6.3.2 + ATAR, except that it isn't exactly light cavalry.

Perhaps 6.3.3 + Enslave to Cossack to show that as they won battles their size only grew, both from new recruits and from indoctrinating their enemies. But even that seems too funky.

Whatever the answer is, it's gotta be good! Cossacks need some lovin'!





A paper about Rousseau, Aeon? Throw some attacks on his book Emile for me while you're at it, will you? ::grin::

 

[Rhye]

-> No I don't agree with governments. And Roman Empire was totally different from a despotism...there was the senate!

->the armoured car...the choice is yours. In that place I can put an early tank like the Renault FT17, or an even earlier MKIV, and call it "Light Tank".
Otherwise I can leave it where it is. Remember that its place is accurate, as the Austin Mk2 armoured car was used by the british as a sort of tank for crushing irish rebellion. In 1922 they entered stadium during a game, and entered the football field and shot to the spectators.