Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

Rate this mod!

  • I can't play Civ without this: no more loading times!

    Votes: 203 66.6%
  • A good mod, but I won't play with it

    Votes: 54 17.7%
  • I don't like the map

    Votes: 13 4.3%
  • I don't like the terrain

    Votes: 9 3.0%
  • I don't like the additions

    Votes: 5 1.6%
  • I don't like the rules changes

    Votes: 21 6.9%

  • Total voters
    305
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Aeon221 said:
Until the Renaissance (with the brief exception of Rome), Europe was a technological backwater of EPIC PROPORTIONS!

So IMHO, crippling their early development is JUST AS IMPORTANT as boosting their later improvement.

I know this, and I tried to do it, but I must be very careful.
In fact I don't cripple Rome and Greece early, and this causes them to expand in other civs territory. Once this happens, Euro civs never recover.
 
Asclepius said:
Whether they are a seafaring Civ or not is not really the point. If the British hadn't had such a huge Navy, the war in the west (both in WWI and WWII) would have been won by Germany simply because of the U-Boat.
The German tactics for the use of U-boats was not like modern submarines as stand-off weapon platforms. In fact, the Germans perfected a concept known as the "tonnage war", which has been the cornerstone of all modern submarine tactics since the second world war.

The Tonnage War is a concept based on the assumption the enemy has a finite number of vessels and a limtied capability to replace them, and if the tonnage sunk is greater than the tonnage fielded into sea as replacements then the war will eventually be won by means of attrition. This calls for the U-boats to operate in large wolfpacks in order to be effective, and target convoys carrying supplies as a priority rather than warships - the assumption being a heavier transport is worth more tonnage than an escort, also the assumption being a sunken troop transport beats a sunken destroyer escort in overall value to the war effort.

The U-boats were unneffective means of warfare during the better part of the war - until 1942 there were too little of them to be useful in any sort of tonnage war, and from 1943 onwards the mass production of American escorts simply rendered the war too costly. Due to a lack of viable rockets and missiles that could be launched from subs, the use of a U-boat for anything other than a hunting wolfpack in a tonnage war wasn't even considered in the war.
The U-Boats weren't destroyed due to British numbers - David Jordan in his book "Wolfpack" explains very briefly but trutrhfully how the British Admiralty didn't even consider them threaths until too late, and didn't even bother developing SONAR capabilities to counter them. Not until the Americans committed their coast guard (and attached air force) and jointly developed a viable SONAR did the tide of the U-boat war begin to turn towards the allies.

If anything beat the U-boat it was the American merchant marines' numbers, the massive production power of the American shipyards which simply fielded too many ships to make a tonnage war an option, the cooperation between the US Navy, US Coast Guard, the royal Navy and Royal Air Force which led to the sinking of massive numbers of U-boats and Kriegsmarine vessels, and the dog-gone determination of Hitler to cause more harm than good to his general staff.
 
Back from another session of British dominance.
-Shakespeare's pedia entry still uses old city/metro size numbers.
-The Magnetism boats say they sink in ocean, but the pedia claims Magnetism allows sfe ocean travel.
 
Thanks everyone.

While we still discuss of the zeppelin, I've found a way of having religious wonders built earlier and -I hope- tuned the discover of the new world and the tech costs.

I'm beginning now with the flavour animations.

I'll have an huge amount of things to remember - it is very likely to forget something.

In the next version your main work will be checking that every civ has its right units.
 
First things first Rhye...
My 2 cents on carriers. You have correctly put in WW2 Carriers and Modern Carriers. Now then the talks floated around Nuclear Carriers. Well these are very special to USA. Most other nation with modern carriers have the most significant types the Angle Decks or VTOL/Jump carriers. Nuclear Carrier should more so be a UU for USA, but you got enough of those so just make it a flavor unit for the yanks.
Flavor units for Modern Carriers:
France = Charles de Gaulle
England = Hermes
India = Gorshkov
Russia = Kiev
USA = Nimitz
Spain = Principe de Asturias
Lots of others to pick out for all the other nations.

WW2 Carriers from Wyrmshadow
Graf Zeppelin for Germany
Essex for USA (Among many other)
Kaga for Japan
Ark Royal for England
Arromanches for France
then just pick any flattop for the rest perhaps CV Yorktown that he made also for generic carrier with lots of civ3 colors.

Well then you might consider those naval aircrafts.
Easy enough.
Land Based aircrafts (jets and props) set up as Transport Only Aircrfat and Transport only foot WITH Capacity 1
(unit with tranposrt capacity >0 can't be loaded to other with same stuff).
I think this is how set it up. Just keep re-base and such other aircraft things.

This the AI will work out at least in some test scenarios I made.
Don't mess with rebase and other thing.

If you like I'm sure not the only one to give a hint on the masses of aircraft that could be considered as such Naval planes. Think of it as each nation should have 1 prop-fighter (Zero, Corsairs and Seafires) and 1 dive/tropedobomber (like Kate, Avenger, Swordfish) for WW2 Carrier and then 1-2 jetfighters (depending on any jet upgardes F-8 & F-14) also same for strike aircrafts (like Phantom,F/A-18 and Harriers)
All these naval aircrafts have the lethal sea tag on AND have perhaps more defense and offense as a whole BUT shorter range. This makes them very different from land-based beside the capability of being able to land on carriers.

All this will as many says OOOH no more units, BUT I think modern times have that effect to increase and expand quality in modern weapons. As I said before lots more difference between a Gloster Meteor and a F/A-18 Hornet than a Musketman and a Flintlock (even if it spelled doom for Pikemen with the importance of the Bayonnet)

Looked over your Modern Tech tree (what I saw on that picture any way) and Rocketry should have the first types of jets, then Space Flight was clearly Supersonic aircrafts birthday. Later on Smart Weapons gives us the jets of today. Easy as that. No added tech !!!!!!
If you would consider 1 tech it should be right there between Rocketry and Space Flight setting up Supersonic. That was the key advance before Space Flight could commense.

Rocketry is more like V1 and V2 rocketry stuff and early subsonic jets.
Never understood how the Cruise Missiles could be placed in that tech. Surely the Tomahawk is known for a Smart Weapon if there anything like that. Just watch the old films from Gulf War. My suggestion to move the cruise missile to Smart Weapons adding on that simplier rocket for all like V1, V2 or Scuds.

Even so Rhye you thought that WW1 biplanes should have that early Flight tech so in historical importance I vote for adding at least more advanced jets to balance the importance of the jet aircraft.

Hm Stealth fighters actually are a bit ill placed. It's a bomber F-117 not a fighter.

On other modern jet bombers I agree that the Tu-95 Tupolev "Bear" is a fine Russian bomber, but I think it's a prop.
Many nations today uses jet fighterbombers or strike/attack bombers. The days of that huge bomber (B-52) are gone. Then lots of those units on CDGroup.
Tornado, Canberra, Vulcan, Tu-22, A-10, A-6, A-7, Arado 234 (germanjetbomber), B-36, Jaguar, F/A-18, F-104, F-105, F-111, F-15 Strike Eagle, Su-25 and on and on and on. Just pick some.


The Zeppelin issue
Zeppelin as the most german like? My 2 cent on that says the STUKA, what other aircraft has more Nazi written over it. Almost all folks knows about the Stuka a true German UU bomber if any. How much more than a pretty sight did the Zeppelin mean to WW1. Good for recon both before and perhaps after WW1, but really I can much more units that ment more.
Please change that.

Another thing came to my mind. Stealth Attacks are not much used. This most be the most modern jets not only stealth aircrafts. Unit with ability to strike stealth must mean that it can pick out a single unit in a pack. Just look at those TV-guided bombs from Iraq. Tick all those units in that selection so that the modern strike-aircrafts can hit anything it wishes. Very true to real life IMHO.
 
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Japan.SAV

Here's the latest save of my Japan game. We're a little ways into the industrial age. I have done a little bit of imperialistic war, destroying the Mayas and the Incas. Now I have significant settlements on four continents. My colonies include much of the Asian mainland, some Indonesian islands, a piece of Australia, California, the Panama Canal, and the entire Pacific coast of South America.

China stupidly declared war on me, so now I'm going to have to fight them before Kamikazes.
 
Looked over your Modern Tech tree (what I saw on that picture any way)

Is Cemo not a tester??? If he isnt, RECTIFY! ;p

I agree that it would be nice to have a seperate category of naval aircraft. The Marine Corps Air Station near where I live flies different jets than the USAF would, and I assume that it is the same all over.

Do we really need a stealth fighter? Couldnt it be replaced with a JSF of some kind? Stealth fighters seem kinda stupid haha
 
I don't think we should bother cramming in a huge number of modern units that won't be used in most games anyway.
 
After a week's absence, I am back!



Well, alot of things must be said:

1. For the third time, remove the Armoured Car! It's just... not even sensible. Replace it with Mobile Infantry; that is what is needed.

2. About the U-Boat and Zeppelin debate, let me throw in a third idea for a German UU: an infantry replacement with high attack and defense. Historical basis? In both WW's, Germany's infantry inflicted approximately 30% more casualties than they received, not because of excellent weaponry or troops, but because of their excellently trained officers. Other nations had a doctrinal training (If A happens, perform action B), but Germany inherited the Prussian method of officer training and each officer would more or less spend their entire life going through academies and apprenticeships to build them for leadership.

3. About the flying units: I can't say I like the biplane or U2. Just not enough usefulness. You could get the same intelligence through espionage as you could through their use, and by the time they roll around you should have plenty of money for espionage. And, if you are going to make the bombers inable to land on carriers, then in order to keep the balance you need to raise the bombard of fighters and give them Lethal Sea bombardment to keep the sea dominated by planes.

4. About cruise missiles: If you are going to do anything with these, make them cheaper. Personally, I'd just remove them and give certain naval units their bombard rating. I don't use them, the AI doesn't use them, and while elaborating on them is cool, I don't think it'd change anything.

5. About drafting: One thing I realized this past week was that although drafting may date back into prehistory, mobilization does not, and the unfortunate thing about Civ3 is that it requires you to be mobilized before you can draft anyone. You might want to consider moving drafting back to Nationalism. Not nice, I know, but it's just a constraint placed on you by the game.

6. About governments: More than anything else here, I would like a differentiation between urban and rural monarchies. There is a world of difference between the monarchies of Rome and the Italian peninsula (urban) and the monarchies of France and Germany during the dark ages (rural/feudal). And you've gotta admit, Absolute and Constitutional Monarchies simply didn't appear often enough to warrant their appearance. They are just an example of an urban monarchy. Perhaps you could differentiate between the ancient and post renaissance forms of urban monarchy as well.

7. A small wonder proposal: Public Schooling. Available with the Corporation, Public Schooling would increase trade by 25%-50% (Your choice) in every city, but also generate two unhappy faces in each city. Historical reasoning should be obvious - modern compulsory schools were a product of large trusts attempting to create a stable and predictable economy through forcing consumerism and destroying competition ab ovo on the populace at large, and yet it causes much unhappiness and torment amongst those forced to stick go along with it. I can't remember if you removed the Corporation or not; if you did, put it at Industrialization.

8. Could I get a list of the UU's, Rhye? I'd like to do some nitpicking, if you will. ;p

9. Is there any way to make every city in the empire produce one culture per turn once the Printing Press is discovered? It would make sense, if you ask me.

10. Just gotta have ten things to say. Can't help it, it's a law of physics!
 
1. Agreed. The Armored car is silly.
2. The Zeppelin is kind of fun, but I think any of the three are fine as a second UU.
3. I can see some use for the U2, but not too much. The Biplane is good, but I think that it's too easy to get to flight in our current tech tree.
4. Messing around with units carrying other units is an unnecessary complication. Simplicity in units is best.

7. There's plenty of wonders now as it is.

9. It wouldn't be possible without creating a small wonder which adds a +1 culture improvement in every city. And I think we have enough small wonders now. But we should make Printing Press more useful. Right now, it's just an added cost to Free Artistry. It has no use on its own.
 
If you’re really stuck for an Egyptian UU might I suggest the mamluk? Mamluks were non-Muslim slave-soldiers who played an important role in the development of Egyptian society. As outsiders they were dependant on leadership for their position, and as non-Muslims were able to skirt the prohibition of conflict between Muslim nations. They were defeated by the Ottomans, but remained in control of Egypt under ottoman rule, and Napoleon, but regained control of Egypt as soon as he departed. Originally there we a kind of infantry, but later developed into heavy cavalry. They didn't really pop up until the 9th century A.D., but they managed to maintain control of Egypt from this period until early 1800's when they went the way of the Knight's Templar.

As a Civ unit you could make them early, balanced infantry with a chance to enslave a defeated unit to create another mamluk. Eventually they would upgrade to heavy cavalry. I know they come on to the scene a little late, but if you're really stuck for another Egyptian UU this might be the way to go. What do you think?
 
Sh3kel said:
The German tactics for the use of U-boats was not like modern submarines as stand-off weapon platforms.... (SNIP)
These historical posts are interesting but not exactly relevant to discussing what to do with Rhye's mod. I try and keep my posts short and to the point.

It's not the total tonnage sunk per month that was important but the total sunk from the ships which were available at that time. You contradict yourself by first saying U-Boats were "ineffective" and then later "SONAR turned the tide towards the Allies". If they were ineffective, what tide was being turned?

When effectively used, there were more than enough U-Boats to bring England to its knees and for a few months this certainly was the case. Hitler’s interference in deployment orders and the breaking of the Enigma codes gave the British enough of an advantage to be able to strike back. This doesn't alter the fact that the U-Boat, singlehandedly, almost caused the British to be starved of both food and weapons. It could be argued that only chance tipped the scales in favour of the Allies. What if... the British hadn't captured an Enigma encoder? What if ... the German B-dienst had decoded the North Africa convoy route...? It still doesn't alter the fact that the U-Boats were a significant historical unit that better represents German power than the Zeppelin does.
 
cemo1956 said:
Looked over your Modern Tech tree (what I saw on that picture any way) and Rocketry should have the first types of jets, then Space Flight was clearly Supersonic aircrafts birthday. Later on Smart Weapons gives us the jets of today. Easy as that. No added tech !!!!!!
If you would consider 1 tech it should be right there between Rocketry and Space Flight setting up Supersonic. That was the key advance before Space Flight could commense.

Agree completely and had suggested as much already. No need for extra techs, just shuffle the types of aircraft back and forward a bit to squeeze in a second generation jet.

cemo1956 said:
Rocketry is more like V1 and V2 rocketry stuff and early subsonic jets.
Never understood how the Cruise Missiles could be placed in that tech. Surely the Tomahawk is known for a Smart Weapon if there anything like that. Just watch the old films from Gulf War. My suggestion to move the cruise missile to Smart Weapons adding on that simplier rocket for all like V1, V2 or Scuds.

Agree.
 
argh. I'm drowning....

I thought I could advance to the last part of the project, apart from some details (Germans UU for example), but now I have to stop.

Some random thoughts (I'm too lazy now to reply post-by-post)

->Is cruise missile too early? No problem, I'll put it later.

->There is no Smart Weapons tech!!! That silly tech was removed.

->Germans have a lot of potential UUs. The choice is difficult as America or Russia or France.
The Zep remains my favourite (could be my love for Led Zeppelin? :) ), but I considered various alternatives before adding it (including the mentioned infantry: the Wehrmacht sounded a good name for it, but its animation is taken by Modern Infantry now). I didnt think of the U-boat, and as I've said it is a valid alternative. The feared Stuka was too short in terms of life.
Anyway, the discussion remains open.

-> I considered the Mameluke, but there were 2 things I didn't like: 1) they are more a dinasty than a unit. During mamelukes egyptian armies were composed by various types of horses, camels and archers. I don't find appopriate a unit with that name. 2) I prefer an ancient UU for Egypt

->for cemo: I'm sorry you've spent some time with that long post, but I must point out that I won't put flavour units. I'll use flavour animations. So I don't need civ-specific names: the name remains the same. What will change is how units will look, depending on the cultural group. An example: the current swordsman will be Euro-only. Mediterranean civs will have their own animation, African civs will have a black swordsman and so on.

->what do you exactly mean with "mobile infantry"? Can you show some animation?

->If you don't want the armoured car, then you'll have to fight with Sh3kel and Blasphemous. They wanted that unit. In any case I need something that comes with motorized transportation and upgrades to the mech inf.

->the list of the UUs...well I haven't time. Look inside the editor. And they are not definitive.

->U2s now are more useful, as upgrade for the explorer.



more later....
 
->the draft: do you mean the "conscription of units" flag? It is in Nationalism

->I don't agree with the point on the goverments. "rural" monarchies are represented by the Feudal Monarchy; the rest of the monarchies are divided by the power (theocratic, absolute, constutional) instead of the size. The size would mean dividing Signorie/Principati as small monarchies from medium sized monarchies and large empires.
The same with republic: the "city state" should be the smallest form.
But there is absolutely no way to privilegiate small nations rather than large, with the editor. Check yourself: there is no way. A large empire is always better for any government,
 
Rhye said:
->what do you exactly mean with "mobile infantry"? Can you show some animation?
Don't need a new animation, just give modern infantry a movement of 2.

Rhye said:
->If you don't want the armoured car, then you'll have to fight with Sh3kel and Blasphemous. They wanted that unit. In any case I need something that comes with motorized transportation and upgrades to the mech inf.
I count at least 3 people against the Armoured car. Mech Inf doesn't need or deserve a progenitor. Put the first tank in Mot Transport and you have room for two tank upgrades.
 
Asclepius said:
I count at least 3 people against the Armoured car. Mech Inf doesn't need or deserve a progenitor. Put the first tank in Mot Transport and you have room for two tank upgrades.

In that case we have again the same problem.
If a tank goes in Mot. Trasnport, then it is a MKIV or similar. You already refused that possibility.
 
I forgot to say one (important) thing:

-> No more modern units. I have gone too far until now, compared with my original project. I agreed to something I wasn't sure at first, but now we've reached the limit.
Units that come with rocketry will not change because rocketry will be put more distant from advanced flight.
 
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