RifE 1.20 Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[Wodan]

You said cottages were a resource.

Yeah, you're right. Sorry. I should have said " generator" or something.

But regardless of what is actually in the tile, the only time you build Cottages is when the tile isn't generating enough . The function of cottages is to give where there is none.

The former only really applies on resources, right? And hte latter is hardly true. Rivers, for example. Don't you mean "the only time you build Cottages is when the tile doesn't have a resource of some kind"?

No, when your population grows (higher happycap) you need more cottages.

Because cottages upgrades are limited*, they don't scale growth. It is population that grows to harvest more , the fact that cottages upgrade is immaterial. They could be replaced by a flat-rate improvement that has the same average output. All the upgrade mechanic does is make you more vulnerable to pillagers.

* Limited in this context means that they reach maximum potential within a short time compared to the time considered. Since it's early game compared to late game, I think they do. Cottages become Towns in 100 turns, I think. That's short compared to the time between early and late game, which means that Cottages don't scale available between early and late game.

This is broad strokes of course and to some extent they do grow output. I'm not convinced it is to a great extent, and the fact that fixed income/pop strategies are viable supports my position.

Again, have to think on this some. Thanks for your thoughts.

But city-specific bonuses are also empire wide, in that they require techs to build.

Not always. GPP generation for example, or settled GP.

But how could the map make a cottage city better than a specialist city when everything else is set up for the specialist city?

Low food potential? To me that would suggest a production city or the settler should settle somewhere else. No other space left -> late game, the cottages wont mature. The one scenario that makes sense is strategically important spot. In that case I could see cottaging, not because it is good; only least bad.

Other reasons?

Because the city in question may have single-city bonuses. Because the empire-wide bonuses are biased toward a specific end, and it is necessary to generate other things too (i.e., the reason city specialization is a good idea is because the empire needs at least some units, some research, some gold, some GP, etc. City-specific bonuses and multipliers make it most efficient to have those things concentrated in one city for each item.)

I'm not questioning a GP-farm, in a cottage economy, specialist economy or aristograrian. Nor military production centres.

I question that it is a good strategy to make a cottage city when you are already set up for some other dominant strategy, for instance aristograrian. Legacy cities get a pass because they are already "done". You claimed that even if aristogracy was available from the beginning, some cities would still be cottaged.

Sure. The basis of Aristocracy is farms.

• You need fresh water. No water = cottages are your only option unless you're going to make it a production city or something.
• Farms get a food hit under Aristocracy. So if there are not enough food specials, then farms won't cut it. If they are grassland, then cottages are still viable.
• Farms still have a 2 commerce limit. That's inferior to Towns. (I know you argued that "on average" they may be closer to equivalent. But even on average I think the cottages will provide more raw commerce, even if not the maximum if all the Towns were mature.)
• Farms don't provide hammers.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

 

[adecoy95]

ive always thought it pointless to build cottages, the market and the gambling house produces sooo much coin that it will do more than any cottage strategy could have in my last game, i was playing mechanos, and i had 40% research speed, i got market, and then gambling houses, and that shot up to 100% with coin to spare! to me its all about the hammers, max those hammers, there are so many buildings that need to be built.

max hammers, build a few farms in some good food tiles, bam, your set

 

[Lone Wolf]

Farms get a food hit under Aristocracy. So if there are not enough food specials, then farms won't cut it. If they are grassland, then cottages are still viable.

That's why it's usually Agristocracy. Also, Sanitation.

Farms still have a 2 commerce limit. That's inferior to Towns. (I know you argued that "on average" they may be closer to equivalent. But even on average I think the cottages will provide more raw commerce, even if not the maximum if all the Towns were mature.)

But remember that Agristo farms produce 2 + food to boot, which enables working more 2 farms, as opposed to cottages, which don't allow for more growth.

Farms don't provide hammers.

Relevant only with a lot of plains in your land and for the Elves.

Obtaining fresh water is usually easy, so it's only plains where Agristo can be suboptimal.

I think that Agristo is usually stronger then cottages, unless RiFE had been changing something. In regards to base FfH, I think that agristo needs to be nerfed somehow.

i was playing mechanos, and i had 40% research speed, i got market, and then gambling houses, and that shot up to 100% with coin to spare!

Mind you, 20% of 1000 is bigger then 100% of 100, so it's not always all about the %.

 

[lordrune]

Fully developed cottages give +2 hammers now, though, in addition to commerce bonuses. That ends up being quite considerable.
Agristocracy is even stronger in RiFe as farms have a +1 base bonus to food.
But pretty much everything's beefed up in RiFe as it is *shrug*.

 

[Valkrionn]

Might be time to discuss this in it's own thread, rather than the ever-larger stickied thread...

Self-quote time.

I like the discussion, but it's making the thread even more bloated than it was (You guys have added nearly 4 pages with it! ) Seeing as I can not replace this thread without bugging a moderator, I'd appreciate it if you moved the discussion to a different location... Either a new thread, or the Module thread, here.

 

[Wodan]

Nah, we've beat it to death.

 

[lordrune]

Moving back to the feedback thing...

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but can minotaurs could be toned down?
They're taking out civs early as things stand... maybe they could be held around their starting lair, similar to the way Acheron works?

 

[Schwarzbart]

at a other Place ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=348959 ) it is already Mentioned that Minor Minotaur will get 4/4 (instead 6/4 now) and if I undestand it corect crazed will removed in the next Version.

 

[Wodan]

They found one of the RifE bears in real life.

 

[Valkrionn]

They found one of the RifE bears in real life.

Those poor bastards....

 

[admtanaka]

This is an issue carried over from base FfH, but has anyone tried to normalize the audio tracks? Some are quite loud in comparison to the others.

 

[JanusTalaiini]

This is an issue carried over from base FfH, but has anyone tried to normalize the audio tracks? Some are quite loud in comparison to the others.

Honestly - whichever Civ 4 designer made the call to have volume scale with number of casters without a maximum limit deserves a serious wedgie.

 

[admtanaka]

Honestly - whichever Civ 4 designer made the call to have volume scale with number of casters without a maximum limit deserves a serious wedgie.

Another questionable decision -especially annoying when you win 50 combats in between turns.

 

[Viatos]

Is it intentional that Fallen Angels (Thanatos and Dullahans of the Legion) cannot acquire Flying at Combat 5? It was a nice feature.

 

[Valkrionn]

No, forgot to make it an alternate prereq. Will do so.

Edit: Also, it's not just for the D'tesh; Mercurians get it too, assuming you're able to get them down to evil.

 

[blade117]

There should be an evil Mercurian leader, just for that purpose.

 

[Valkrionn]

The question then is how we allow them to spawn; Had lots of issues with that originally. Have an idea, though.... Need to talk to Opera about it, as it's related to one of hers.

 

[Autolycus]

Just wanted to say, Nice Work!

 

[Schwarzbart]

Verminicous have you found a way to prefent Wild Troll (scout Replacement of the Jotnar) to be able to upgrade to a other Hunter Typ or is this some strange bug I encounter because of the Modules I use?´
If this prefenetion is from you then finaly Archmage and other limited units can prefented from having full Jotnar + full normal Unit limit.

 

[Viatos]

Verminicous have you found a way to prefent Wild Troll (scout Replacement of the Jotnar) to be able to upgrade to a other Hunter Typ or is this some strange bug I encounter because of the Modules I use?´
If this prefenetion is from you then finaly Archmage and other limited units can prefented from having full Jotnar + full normal Unit limit.

That sounds like a bug - Wild Trolls should upgrade to Troll Goblincatchers, unless maybe you're capturing them with Command?

D'tesh: swap some button art around, perhaps. There are lots of evil/undead looking buttons...and I have confused Gift Essence with Flay Flesh no less then three times now.

Also, update some events to check for D'tesh civilization - they are particularly vulnerable to getting the Body Mana sickness event, for instance, which the Scions are immune to.