Riots in St. Louis

[Timsup2nothin]

Ferguson PD did those things, not the STL County PD. The general consensus of Missourians is that the police should have went in there and busted heads, brutally suppressing the protesters (peaceful or otherwise). Most Missourians view the protesters (both peaceful and violent) as self-entitled crybabies who need to get jobs and start contributing to society. I'm not saying whether or not I support their view, but this is how the vast majority of Missourians view the riots/protests.

This seems to come from a more informed source than Paul in Saudi, and supports his observations...though I'm not suggesting that I see Saigon as spokesman for 'the general consensus of Missourians' either.

 

[jackelgull]

Ferguson PD did those things, not the STL County PD. The general consensus of Missourians is that the police should have went in there and busted heads, brutally suppressing the protesters (peaceful or otherwise). Most Missourians view the protesters (both peaceful and violent) as self-entitled crybabies who need to get jobs and start contributing to society. I'm not saying whether or not I support their view, but this is how the vast majority of Missourians view the riots/protests.

This seems to come from a more informed source than Paul in Saudi, and supports his observations...though I'm not suggesting that I see Saigon as spokesman for 'the general consensus of Missourians' either.

How is this view unique to Missouri? America has always traditionally been unsympathetic to the poor.

 

[Antilogic]

I noticed several posters have repeated the "leaked" information from one of the multiple autopsy reports that claims it wasn't an execution (and is somehow "justified"). I would advise some suspicion of what is very likely an intentionally leaked excerpt.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

How is this view unique to Missouri? America has always traditionally been unsympathetic to the poor.

Some places are more vocal in expressing their lack of symp0athy than others. I can't speak to whether Missouri is or isn't, since my only time spent in Missouri was driving through. I will say that the one Missourian I recall from my Navy days was vocally prejudiced against rednecks when he thought their neck wasn't red enough, and everyone else pretty much all the time.

 

[Antilogic]

Looks like the decision is coming today or tomorrow:

...

NOW, THEREFORE, I, JEREMIAH W. (JAY) NIXON, GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and Laws of the State of Missouri, including Sections 44.010 through 44.130, RSMo, do hereby declare a State of Emergency exists in the State of Missouri.

I further direct the Missouri State Highway Patrol together with the St. Louis County Police Department and the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department to operate as a Unified Command to protect civil rights and ensure public safety in the City of Ferguson and the St. Louis region.

I further order that the St. Louis County Police Department shall have command and operational control over security in the City of Ferguson relating to areas of protests, acts of civil disobedience and conduct otherwise arising from such activities.

I further order that the Unified Command may exercise operational authority in such other jurisdictions it deems necessary to protect civil rights and ensure public safety and that other law enforcement agencies shall assist the Unified Command when so requested and shall cooperate with operational directives of the Unified Command.

...

Link.

 

[tetley]

Thanks for posting the order.

It also looks like--as expected--Darren will be let off. It doesn't seem you would declare a state of emergency ahead of time if he was indicted. Also interesting is that Ferguson PD is stripped of power--and the feds aren't taking over, either (which I say is a good thing: that would set a dangerous precedent).

 

[useless]

We will learn soon enough whether it's okay to kill black people in dubious circumstances in Missouri soon.

 

[gay_Aleks]

We will learn soon enough whether it's okay to kill black people in dubious circumstances in Missouri soon.

Well, for all it's worth, at least, it could be said that it is not something new.

 

[Saigon]

Some places are more vocal in expressing their lack of symp0athy than others. I can't speak to whether Missouri is or isn't, since my only time spent in Missouri was driving through. I will say that the one Missourian I recall from my Navy days was vocally prejudiced against rednecks when he thought their neck wasn't red enough, and everyone else pretty much all the time.

It's not so much a lack of sympathy as it is:
1. Sympathy for the security forces involved. Since the riots in Ferguson broke out, I have seen people buy meals for uniformed police officers at restaurants and wish them well. Most of the police officers and National Guardsmen are good people who are upstanding members of the community. They are these people's mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children, etc. I remember being in a cafe where they had the riots on TV and a woman said (not an exact quote) "my son is in Ferguson with the National Guard and is having rocks thrown at him by these criminals."

2. People in general (in Missouri or elsewhere) are sympathetic to the poor who are working to improve their lives and don't just want handouts for doing nothing. Either accurate or not, most people view the rioters and protesters as just that, beggars.

 

[useless]

There's probably a racial element to it as well, Saigon.

 

[tetley]

Shooting a black guy and it being ok is nothing new. What is new is that ALL things are ok so long as you do it under the guise of the badge. Don't cross the brotherhood, and you'll be fine.

 

[Saigon]

There's probably a racial element to it as well, Saigon.

I am by no means an expert on racial discrimination, but I don't think racism is nearly as widespread as some would have the American people believe. I think racism is largely non-existent in society. That is not to say that there aren't isolated cases of racism, but to accuse the majority (or even a significant minority) of the American population of being racist is absurd.

 

[kramerfan86]

I feel like I am in a small minority where I am actually waiting for the overall report before making a judgement here. The officer's injuries (if they exist), where Brown was shot, and if there is any physical evidence in the police car (which is leaked but I am not trusting leaks on that) will tell the story pretty quick IMO. I dont feel this one will be as "gray zone" as some controversial cases are.

 

[useless]

I am by no means an expert on racial discrimination, but I don't think racism is nearly as widespread as some would have the American people believe. I think racism is largely non-existent in society. That is not to say that there aren't isolated cases of racism, but to accuse the majority (or even a significant minority) of the American population of being racist is absurd.

Non-White people (especially African-Americans) would beg to differ.

 

[kramerfan86]

I think Saigon is right where the majority of Americans themselves are not racist, but there is still systemic racism at place where even non-racists can perpetrate racially based problems. Do I think its quite as widespread as some claim? No, but I also dont thinks are as hunky dory as some think either.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not so much a lack of sympathy as it is:
1. Sympathy for the security forces involved. Since the riots in Ferguson broke out, I have seen people buy meals for uniformed police officers at restaurants and wish them well. Most of the police officers and National Guardsmen are good people who are upstanding members of the community. They are these people's mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children, etc. I remember being in a cafe where they had the riots on TV and a woman said (not an exact quote) "my son is in Ferguson with the National Guard and is having rocks thrown at him by these criminals."

2. People in general (in Missouri or elsewhere) are sympathetic to the poor who are working to improve their lives and don't just want handouts for doing nothing. Either accurate or not, most people view the rioters and protesters as just that, beggars.

If I were in Missouri I might be buying meals for cops. Maybe when I showed up in their gun sights gratitude would give them pause.

 

[JollyRoger]

Donut ask, donut tell.

 

[Antilogic]

It's not so much a lack of sympathy as it is:
1. Sympathy for the security forces involved. Since the riots in Ferguson broke out, I have seen people buy meals for uniformed police officers at restaurants and wish them well. Most of the police officers and National Guardsmen are good people who are upstanding members of the community. They are these people's mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children, etc. I remember being in a cafe where they had the riots on TV and a woman said (not an exact quote) "my son is in Ferguson with the National Guard and is having rocks thrown at him by these criminals."

2. People in general (in Missouri or elsewhere) are sympathetic to the poor who are working to improve their lives and don't just want handouts for doing nothing. Either accurate or not, most people view the rioters and protesters as just that, beggars.

Do you think characterizing people exercising their first amendment rights as criminals and beggars might be a bit unsympathetic?

I feel like I am in a small minority where I am actually waiting for the overall report before making a judgement here. The officer's injuries (if they exist), where Brown was shot, and if there is any physical evidence in the police car (which is leaked but I am not trusting leaks on that) will tell the story pretty quick IMO. I dont feel this one will be as "gray zone" as some controversial cases are.

Generally, leaks like these are intentional and done to control the media narrative (unlike the Snowden leaks, then there would be a significant effort to clamp down on the leakers). So yeah, let's see the full evidence. In court, because I don't see how the known facts don't add up to a trial. We have several largely consistent eyewitness accounts, the weapon bagged and tagged, etc.

I think Saigon is right where the majority of Americans themselves are not racist, but there is still systemic racism at place where even non-racists can perpetrate racially based problems. Do I think its quite as widespread as some claim? No, but I also dont thinks are as hunky dory as some think either.

Most Americans seem to think racism is limited to de jure slavery or Jim Crow.

 

[Farm Boy]

Too much PI gaming for you Antilogic!

 

[Antilogic]

Too much PI gaming for you Antilogic!

That is likely true.