[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[nzcamel]

No Korea, Dutch, Portugal, Maya?

Strange, are any of the City-States getting upgraded into CIvs? I thought they would add new ones to replace those.
So that Korea hint was just a hint? No Korea in this expansion? Seoul will still be a city-state.

It'd seem not. Which is odd. You'd think at least one of those would have been in.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

No not necessarily, he said the Number has not changed, not that the cities have not changed

Good point.

 

[JacquesBquick]

Speculating on the new civs:

I drew up this spreadsheet a while back quantifying the most notable civs absent from Civ 5, based on past appearances. The most notable absences are Mongolia, Babylon, and Zulu, but I'm not 100% sure we'll see all three in R&F. Babylon is a little too close to Sumeria, and there's always a chance they'll opt for a new civ over Zulu, who've been the most frequently featured African civ across the series. Beyond that?

Likely:
Mongolia
Korea
Dutch
Inca (or another Native)
Ottoman Turkey
African civ, possibly Zulu or Mali

Possible:
Carthage
Celts
Babylon
Italy (I don't really buy the Italy tease in the trailer)
Byzantine
Other Latin American (Argentina? Mexico? Colombia?)
Other Native American (Iroquois? Comanche?)
Another African civ. Wouldn't be surprised if they try to represent both west & south Africa

If I had to guess, I'd say we see 5/6 of my Likely picks –– let's say Mongolia, Korea, Dutch, Inca, and a new West African civ, maybe Nigeria or Yoruba. There's a solid chance Turkey gets added, possibly at the expense of one of the above options. Not only are they a very notable absence, but they fit the "well-suited for a bonus related to new expansion systems" line from the announcement.

For the other three civs, I would wager on a modern Latin American civ, such as Argentina or Colombia. A North American native civ or a second African civ to cover South Africa – could see the Zulu return. Finally, I could see one more Mediterranean civ being added, whether that's Italy, Carthage, or the Byzantines. But to be honest I would expect Ottomans to make it in before any of those three.

So my speculative lineup could include Mongolia, Korea, the Dutch, Inca, Nigeria, Turkey, Colombia, and Zulu.

great list and I like your reasoning here. I agree on Mongolia, Dutch, Korea for sure given the themes in the trailer. I'm not so sure on both Inca and Colombia in the same expansion....maybe that's not fair of me, but two for South America seems unlikely given the greater numbers of notable civilizations in other parts of the world. South America currently only has Brazil as a modern civ, I think Inca are most likely. North America only has US and Aztec. I'd certainly like to see a third each for NA and SA. There's always the Maya, or if we are looking for more modern choices, which i think would be important, we also have Mexico and Canada to consider, though having Mexico and Aztec is....odd, though we also have two greek leaders and alex of macedon, so its not so farfetched

I think dual leadered Italy would make a lot of sense, (though like you i don't see italy in the trailer). someone somewhere here said A florence/venice like athens/sparta dichotomy could make great sense in this game. I don't buy that 'no new city states' means no korea. they clearly just switched up a city state to bandar brunei to make room for Indonesia. Its nothing really to find another city to fit in a particular theme if its time to graduate Seoul (or Lisbon, Amsterdam, Toronto, Carthage, etc.) They did this in Civ V often.

Thus my list is: Mongolia, Korea, Dutch, Inca, Italy (Florence/Venice), Sioux, Portugal, and Ottomans.

 

[Zaarin]

My mouse hand was heading over to the like button...and then my eyes hit this!

I'm not terribly interested in classical antiquity: if Rome and Greece were left out, I probably wouldn't even notice. But I do also think that Babylon was more significant than Rome simply for being first (well, second...).

Anton Strenger just tweeted that there are no new city-states, but some are getting new bonuses.

That kind of kills Korea and Netherlands then, maybe.

Not necessarily. If Seondeok is the leader of Korea, her capital would be Gyeongju, not Seoul.

 

[HEF]

Beautiful intro to Sid Meier's Civilization VI: Rise & Fall!

So it's all about the ladies, eh?

O.K. ...

I'm in!

 

[ferretbacon]

Sure...but the gap between knights and tanks is even more painfully obvious.

I didn't think of that. I'd say they're equal. Would be nice to get Riflemen and maybe Cuirassier(?). Maybe we'll get them in the second expansion if they add an era or something.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think dual leadered Italy would make a lot of sense, (though like you i don't see italy in the trailer). someone somewhere here said A florence/venice like athens/sparta dichotomy could make great sense in this game. I don't buy that 'no new city states' means no korea. they clearly just switched up a city state to bandar brunei to make room for Indonesia. Its nothing really to find another city to fit in a particular theme if its time to graduate Seoul (or Lisbon, Amsterdam, Toronto, Carthage, etc.) They did this in Civ V often.

Thus my list is: Mongolia, Korea, Dutch, Inca, Italy (Florence/Venice), Sioux, Portugal, and Ottomans.

Looking at the statement again, that seems to be plausible as in the number of city-states will not increase. I like your list but would swap maybe Portugal for Mali.

 

[Art Grin]

If we assume that Firaxis will not put their focus on European civs and keep them at about two this time then the Dutch are kinda guaranteed to lose the race to the Celts and Byzantines.
Rome has a huge gap in its city-list concerning cities on the Balkans and Anatolia IIRC.
That's a pretty good hint at the fact that Firaxis was considering the Byzantines as a future civ. Also the Byzantines have been a stable expansion civ since Civ3. So I'd wager they'll be in the expansion. The Celts are just very iconic and beat the Dutch when it comes to sheer name value.

 

[Siptah]

Is it a possibility that Anton Strenger is designing the first expansion and Ed is already planning the second? The interviews didn't hint that he would step down in any way.

 

[JacquesBquick]

Looking at the statement again, that seems to be plausible as in the number of city-states will not increase. I like your list but would swap maybe Portugal for Mali.

yeah you're right. i pulled an ed and got too euro-centric!

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Is it a possibility that Anton Strenger is designing the first expansion and Ed is already planning the second? The interviews didn't hint that he would step down in any way.

Yes, that is very possible IMO. I got the impression that the World Congress is something that Ed wants to implement. So he could be working on it for the 2nd expansion.

 

[Olleus]

I didn't think of that. I'd say they're equal. Would be nice to get Riflemen and maybe Cuirassier(?). Maybe we'll get them in the second expansion if they add an era or something.

Only way they would fit nicely into the "upgrade units every other era" framework (which I personally love) would be to add a new era in the early modern period of history. Say, an Enlightenment era between the Renaissance the Industrial era. IMO, the game really needs this for immersion.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Is it a possibility that Anton Strenger is designing the first expansion and Ed is already planning the second? The interviews didn't hint that he would step down in any way.

Pure speculation, but I would imagine Ed will take a much more reduced role. I would expect they give him a shot at something new. I mean I am sure he is partly involved on this xpac, but then is on a wholly new project by the time the 2nd one rolls around.

Maybe he can revamp Beyond Earth and really unlock some of the potential hinted at (but never achieved) from the last iteration.

 

[nzcamel]

I didn't think of that. I'd say they're equal. Would be nice to get Riflemen and maybe Cuirassier(?). Maybe we'll get them in the second expansion if they add an era or something.

I know guns didn't immediately obsolete knights etc; but they stand out like a sore thumb once the others are gone in game.

The Celts are just very iconic and beat the Dutch when it comes to sheer name value.

I'd say the Dutch are more iconic than the Celts in terms of their overall impact on world history.

 

[nzcamel]

Only way they would fit nicely into the "upgrade units every other era" framework (which I personally love) would be to add a new era in the early modern period of history. Say, an Enlightenment era between the Renaissance the Industrial era. IMO, the game really needs this for immersion.

That sounds good, cos I do like the "upgrade every other era" frame work.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Maybe he can revamp Beyond Earth and really unlock some of the potential hinted at (but never achieved) from the last iteration.

If Ed Beach were doing a Beyond Earth 2, that would be amazing. I'd buy that!

 

[JacquesBquick]

The Celts are just very iconic and beat the Dutch when it comes to sheer name value.

what do you mean by 'name value'? The Netherlands have definitely been a major player in world development. go to any random person, if they have only heard of one or the other, they're way more likely to have heard of 'the Dutch' than 'the Celts.'

 

[Art Grin]

what do you mean by 'name value'? The Netherlands have definitely been a major player in world development. go to any random person, if they have only heard of one or the other, they're way more likely to have heard of 'the Dutch' than 'the Celts.'

The Celts are much more well known than the Dutch when it comes to the average person.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I know guns didn't immediately obsolete knights etc; but they stand out like a sore thumb once the others are gone in game.

But on the other hand I'd rather not spend the game incrementally improving my units. I know where people are coming from but I don't know . . .

 

[nzcamel]

The Celts are much more well known than the Dutch when it comes to the average person.

Other than Celtic Cross tattoos; what is the Celtic equivalent to clogs, dykes, and windmills? Oh and Santa Claus!?