[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[WillowBrook]

I don't think this is worth it's own thread, but the golden age exodus of the evangelists dedication has made me enjoy pursuing a religious victory. I found them tedious in vanilla (I only did one or two), but the extra movement and spreads really help.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Mountain tunnels. That's the other geography altering improvement that's likely coming in a future expansion, along with canals.

Sorry for the random thought. It's WillowBrook's fault. Her post led me to think about the pantheon that allows your religious units to avoid terrain costs, and that led me to think about religious units being able to cross mountains ("faith can move mountains", "faith can move across mountains"), etc.

 

[Rosty K]

I don't think this is worth it's own thread, but the golden age exodus of the evangelists dedication has made me enjoy pursuing a religious victory. I found them tedious in vanilla (I only did one or two), but the extra movement and spreads really help.

Though it makes me feel even more that the Great Prophet points should have some use after all Prophets are gone...

 

[Victoria]

Though it makes me feel even more that the Great Prophet points should have some use after all Prophets are gone...

even if its just extra faith, that sort of makes sense, something attracted the prophet in the first place

 

[Flaxton]

Could be Religious Leaders or Lessor Prophets, with abilities like double T3 Holy city bonuses, cause a +500 religion effect within 10 tiles, increase shrines faith by +1, add an additional faith effect, increase followers by 1 in all your cities. Destroy all inquisitors in a radius. Force a peace treaty. +3 amenity in Holy city etc

 

[acluewithout]

Great Prophets should be available the whole game and let you choose between:

- founding a religion (up to whatever is the max for that map),

- if you’ve founded a religion already, allow you to Evangelise Belief (ie pick another Belief) or start and inquistion, or

- get a random bonus, being either relic, religious work of art, unlock your policy cards, or a random civics boost.

 

[God of Kings]

Given that, there should be industrial and later era Great Prophets such as Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard.

 

[acluewithout]

I was thinking more Martin Luther King.

I don’t think a “Great Prophet” literally has to have founded a religion, at least not more modern ones.

 

[Rosty K]

Given that, there should be industrial and later era Great Prophets such as Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard.

Bob Marley

 

[Cerilis]

There should be some mechanic preventing one player to grab all the early ones though. Like Prophets after the first to be much more expensive for that particular player or something. Else one could prevent other players from getting religions by just continuing to grab them.

 

[agonistes]

Great Prophets should be available the whole game and let you choose between:

- founding a religion (up to whatever is the max for that map),

- if you’ve founded a religion already, allow you to Evangelise Belief (ie pick another Belief) or start and inquistion, or

- get a random bonus, being either relic, religious work of art, unlock your policy cards, or a random civics boost.

Could just be the later prophets give a massive faith bomb. But one later religion would be cool too.

 

[Rosty K]

But one later religion would be cool too.

Could also be something quite opposite, like proclaiming the atheist state (your cities are harder to convert, but you get some bonus in return), or religious freedom (your religious units can spread any of the religions already founded, so you can pick and choose beliefs in your cities and/or take the religious fighting to neutral grounds).

 

[God of Kings]

Could also be something quite opposite, like proclaiming the atheist state (your cities are harder to convert, but you get some bonus in return), or religious freedom (your religious units can spread any of the religions already founded, so you can pick and choose beliefs in your cities and/or take the religious fighting to neutral grounds).

The atheist state would get a huge science boost for example. However, the atheist state would no longer be able to generate any faith, all faith would be zero, and have zero bonuses from pantheons or religion. Foreign religious units would have a very difficult time converting the state's citizens.

 

[Rosty K]

The atheist state would get a huge science boost for example. However, the atheist state would no longer be able to generate any faith, all faith would be zero, and have zero bonuses from pantheons or religion. Foreign religious units would have a very difficult time converting the state's citizens.

In this form it sounds more like a policy card really...

On the other hand, when the Prophets are gone and religions have been founded, it could just be Religious GP (Great Preachers or something), who may operate as normal GP, each providing some unique faith/religion related bonus. E.g. extra beliefs (unique for the GP), boosts to faith buildings, etc.

E.g.: Torquemada. Get a free inquisitor, all inquisitors get +XX strength/charges, nobody expects them.

 

[acluewithout]

The atheist state would get a huge science boost for example. However, the atheist state would no longer be able to generate any faith, all faith would be zero, and have zero bonuses from pantheons or religion. Foreign religious units would have a very difficult time converting the state's citizens.

I don't see why an Atheist state would necessarily have higher science or not be able to generate faith.

I've often wondered how atheism or just secularism should be added to the game. There's a reduction in religious tourism after Enlightenment, but that's about it. If Firaxis make religion impact loyalty, perhaps that impact could be reduced from, say, the industrial era onwards. Perhaps there should also be basically 'atheists' pressure which starts from some era onwards, and which can convert some of your citizens to atheists. This would only spread passively.

At the moment, I just assume that at some point some of my citizens which are 'religious' aren't actually all that religious. As in, whether they're eg 'christian' or not is more about their cultural background.

 

[Rosty K]

I don't see why an Atheist state would necessarily ... or not be able to generate faith.

For example to unlock the 'I find your lack of faith disturbing' achievement

Huh. Apparently, if your neighbor is wiped out, it makes Robert the Bruce happy, because there is indeed peace. I wonder if it's intended behavior

 

[Leyrann]

The atheist state would get a huge science boost for example. However, the atheist state would no longer be able to generate any faith, all faith would be zero, and have zero bonuses from pantheons or religion. Foreign religious units would have a very difficult time converting the state's citizens.

I'm just saying... Naturalists.

 

[Uberfrog]

Huh. Apparently, if your neighbor is wiped out, it makes Robert the Bruce happy, because there is indeed peace. I wonder if it's intended behavior

Well “happy” in that you’ve fulfilled his agenda, but it’s unlikely to offset the amount of warmonger penalties you have accrued if you actually wipe them out...

Just because the AI pop up when you satisfy their agenda doesn’t mean their opinion of you is actually net positive

 

[Victoria]

I don't see why an Atheist state would necessarily have higher science or not be able to generate faith.

Rationalism was a move away from blind faith and look what happened to the ottomans by keeping it.
I’m not saying it’s all to do with faith by any means but it seemed to be of some benefit.

 

[acluewithout]

All I really meant was that Civ tends not to pigeonhole certain concepts, eg governments can run any policy they want (albeit governments affect what slots you have). Likewise, Civ doesn’t create any negatives for religion, and let’s you harness religion to give you science or culture or gold.

I think having Atheism favour or reduce a particular yield would cut across that. I’d rather just see Atheism reduce religious pressure or affect how religion impacts on loyalty. Something like that.