[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[God of Kings]

@sukritact is the one who will make governors not look like eggplants or calabashes.

 

[bbbt]

I'd be happy with just a symbol for each governor (i.e. a stack of coins for the financier, etc. like they ended up doing with the great people) and pulling the names from the spy names list.

Though honestly, I think I've gotten used to them already, even if I'm still not thrilled with the aesthetic.

 

[God of Kings]

At least the leaders themselves generally don't have heads shaped like eggplants or calabashes.

Pedro II, Pericles, Gandhi, and Alexander have exaggerated head shapes though.

 

[stealth_nsk]

So, by your math, it cost over $1,260 to make a governor that looks like an eggplant. Lol.

You miscalculated somewhere. $75K / 238 = $315. Together with picking names, translating those names to all languages and the testing.

 

[Wingednosering]

With R&F we'll have 34 civilizations. That would be 34*7=238 governors. If they have cool designer, which could make 2 high-quality governor artworks per day in a stable way, that's 119 work days or half a year. Cost of half a year for a good designer should be about $60K (with workspace, social expenses and so on). Together with names, localization and testing, let's say costs should be around $75K. Since only about 20-25% of the costs goes to developer, Firaxis need to make around $300K to make this DLC not a financial loss, thus selling 30K copies for $10. I understand what you'd probably buy it, but finding 30K buyers for pure easthetic Civ DLC is quite unlikely.

So, yep, mods to come.

There are some big assumptions in there. Skin tones, palace art and monument art all change by civ region (R&F seems to be making these even more unique). You could theoretically do...five of each to hit these regions?

Honestly, I'd like it if they simply made the skin tones tintable, tinted them for civs from certain regions and used some ethnically appropriate names for them.

As a game dev I can tell you that it's a miniscule amount of work to do that. It seems to just go against their governor design philosophy.

 

[Leyrann]

When you think about it (because, in my sense, the Water Park could only be built on coast rather than in the middle of the ocean), the only who might be reluctant to build Water Park would be, ironically, the Netherlands, because they need all this precious coast to build their sweet and wonderful tulip-powered doomsday devices-- hem, I mean, polder.

Well... I'm pretty sure the Netherlands only have one pier that would qualify in any way...

 

[stealth_nsk]

There are some big assumptions in there. Skin tones, palace art and monument art all change by civ region (R&F seems to be making these even more unique). You could theoretically do...five of each to hit these regions?

Honestly, I'd like it if they simply made the skin tones tintable, tinted them for civs from certain regions and used some ethnically appropriate names for them.

As a game dev I can tell you that it's a miniscule amount of work to do that. It seems to just go against their governor design philosophy.

Yep, you could make governors which differ by skin tone only, but:
1. It doesn't fit AAA game.
2. It kills the whole point of civ-related governors.

I agree what having some limited set of culture regions represented with different governors would be more appropriate in terms of amount of work, but in this case there will be a little inconsistancy as leaders from the same culture group will look identical, but have different names under different civs.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

In fact, I like the fact that they wanted to make the governors' mechanic a little more RP... But in this case, I feel it doesn't work. We will have 12 Amina fighting in the CS screen, and each civilization would have exactly the sames governors, with sames names. Names must have been changed through civilization/civilization cluster. Or simply named them "The Steward", "The Surveyor", without specific names.
And in an artwork sense, even if we have John Curtin leading Australia since the dawn of ages with a pocket watch, I don't fell that right that Governors have the same appearence through the all game. Does it really be difficult to make them a little changes to fit, like, Antiquity/Medieval/Modern appearence, like the never-will-I-see-this-people-because-they-are-useless Councillors in Civ V ? (I ask the question seriously: the only "artistic" hobby I have is writing and a little music, so I really don't know the amount of work required to make that).

One a side note: I like the eggplant governor. In fact, in terms of graphics, I really like them. I know that a lot of people don't like the art of Civ VI, but if you've started with civ IV (like me), it's a lot like that (the impossible wit of Louix XIV or the alien head of Gandhi were delights for me). I'm glad that they decided to go to a more "goofy" style than V, because it's the true nature of the Civilization franchise in my opinion. So, an eggplant governor is perfectly fine (I'm sick of realistic games ; I want games with great mechanics without a gloomy atmosphere)

 

[stealth_nsk]

In fact, I like the fact that they wanted to make the governors' mechanic a little more RP... But in this case, I feel it doesn't work. We will have 12 Amina fighting in the CS screen, and each civilization would have exactly the sames governors, with sames names. Names must have been changed through civilization/civilization cluster.

But since you don't see other civ governors during game, it's not a problem.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

But since you don't see other civ governors during game, it's not a problem.

You can see when the Diplomat is send to any CS. I would find it odd if you see in the CS screen 12 times the same face. But, a part of that, you're right.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

With R&F we'll have 34 civilizations. That would be 34*7=238 governors. If they have cool designer, which could make 2 high-quality governor artworks per day in a stable way, that's 119 work days or half a year. Cost of half a year for a good designer should be about $60K (with workspace, social expenses and so on). Together with names, localization and testing, let's say costs should be around $75K. Since only about 20-25% of the costs goes to developer, Firaxis need to make around $300K to make this DLC not a financial loss, thus selling 30K copies for $10. I understand what you'd probably buy it, but finding 30K buyers for pure easthetic Civ DLC is quite unlikely.

So, yep, mods to come.

In my humble opinion, they really didn't need to go all out designing the governors. Personally I would have preferred a simpler and more generic design that applied to all civs, with different names that were unique to each civ.

Minor quibble, I actually think the governor art is cool, it's just not what I would have done.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The Governor design reminds me a bit of MoO2's leader system (a good thing!), except they went with quality over quantity.

 

[Siptah]

I like the Governor design very much tbh. It's a bit strange that they all look the same for each civ, but it makes playing with them much easier (since you see the small icons and recognize them instantly without them having to use color coding or something). So that's also the reason why they have the same name for each civ - wouldn't make sense if they looked like that and have Amani called Aslaug.

Completely different thing: I wonder how often it will happen to me that I will be doing well considering era score and place a new city in the very last turn of the era, which will make me miss the threshold.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I like the Governor design very much tbh. It's a bit strange that they all look the same for each civ, but it makes playing with them much easier (since you see the small icons and recognize them instantly without them having to use color coding or something). So that's also the reason why they have the same name for each civ - wouldn't make sense if they looked like that and have Amani called Aslaug.

That's easy to solve though, all they would need to do is create a standard symbol for each type of governor, e.g. one that represents the Financier, one that represents the Surveyor, etc. They would be instantly recognisable but have different names per civ!

 

[Ondolindë]

@sukritact is the one who will make governors not look like eggplants or calabashes.

I’m excited for him. I hope he gets it. Hopefully he won’t be too busy working and leave us without his mods.

 

[Victoria]

I can see having good diplomatic visibility of a civ so I can see where they locate governors will be very useful.

WRT the artwork, Their looks are a delight, not bland at all and fit in with other VI artwork so at least there is consistency.

 

[God of Kings]

With modding, it would be possible to end those "Amani Conventions."

 

[Duuk]

That's easy to solve though, all they would need to do is create a standard symbol for each type of governor, e.g. one that represents the Financier, one that represents the Surveyor, etc. They would be instantly recognisable but have different names per civ!

Were I the designer, this is the route I would have gone.

That way, when you're looking to kill the Castellon in a city, you can easily see the Castellon icon, you don't really need to know what his/her name is.

 

[Phoenix1595]

I'd be happy with just a symbol for each governor (i.e. a stack of coins for the financier, etc. like they ended up doing with the great people) and pulling the names from the spy names list.

Though honestly, I think I've gotten used to them already, even if I'm still not thrilled with the aesthetic.

If they did not bother to visually depict GP or spies, I don't see why governors have to be any different. At the end of the day, though, I don't mind the artwork greatly (although Magnus could have been toned down to something a little more generic... I am not into the steampunk convention look).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To be honest the artwork of the governors was little off putting at first. Probably because I just noticed their gigantic heads on the city banner in the first screenshots (Yes, Pingala I'm talking about you). But they look great shown bigger on the governor title screen.