[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[stealth_nsk]

No, viable tall does not strangle wide. Penalties strangle wide. Wide vs tall, when implmented properly, lets you make a decision which bonuses you take. And I know that I, for one, will decide on going wide in 90% of the cases. If people want tall that badly though, sure, put it in the game, as long as I can play wide I don't care.

There's one important thing to note - player experience level. If you make those playstyles equally viable (as much as it's possible for the game like civ) for experienced players, who are familiar with all game systems, they will not be like this for new players. Approach, which requires familiarity with only half of the game will be way more effective for them than approach requiring full game power. And they'll not have any motivation to explore the other part of the game, as mastering tall play will be more effective.

There needs to be some middle ground, so tall play is viable, but wide or conquest should be better.

 

[sonicmyst]

Tall play is also going to have an impact to loyalties.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The other main issue is a production/value balance issue. Chopping is too powerful and many of the districts/buildings aren't worth their production costs (not to mention wonders) regardless of if you are tall or wide. I'm still hopeful that they will make adjustments that

I could see chopping nerfed to like 1/4 of what it is now. Large cities would be far more valuable if population added yield to buildings like if for example each population added 0.5 production to the workshop.

The second new district.

Is not that district Korea's unique district Sewong?

 

[Siptah]

I could see chopping nerfed to like 1/4 of what it is now. Large cities would be far more valuable if population added yield to buildings like if for example each population added 0.5 production to the workshop.



Is not that district Korea's unique district Sewong?

No. They announced two new districts for everyone: Government Plaza is confirmed. The other we've only seen in screenshots: a water park of some sort with a pier and a ferris wheel.
There are also two unique districts: the Seowon for Korea is confirmed. The other must be for one of the civs to be revealed in the next weeks.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

There have been many signs that tall play is being brought back as a viable option with R&F.

My hope is that they make use of the pre-existing code to have Great People Points tied to how many buildings are being actively worked.....rather than the current system.....as that would further encourage tall play, whilst still allowing for Wide Play to achieve the same outcome.

 

[Leyrann]

Note that we have seen the Water Park mentioned in one of the governor's promotion trees already.

 

[Siptah]

Note that we have seen the Water Park mentioned in one of the governor's promotion trees already.

Yes, that's why we know the name. We also know where it is in the tree. But we don't know what it does exactly - presumably it is similar to the EC in a way and gives amenities. But there has to be something that makes it different besides placement rules.
Or maybe the Entertainment complex will be changed and is more about loyalty than amenities, with the more late game water park being the main amenity district?

 

[God of Kings]

- What is the current situation with the Cree.

That has not been fully resolved yet.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Yes, that's why we know the name. We also know where it is in the tree. But we don't know what it does exactly - presumably it is similar to the EC in a way and gives amenities. But there has to be something that makes it different besides placement rules.
Or maybe the Entertainment complex will be changed and is more about loyalty than amenities, with the more late game water park being the main amenity district?

It would not be unimaginable that the water park would give tourism and maybe offensive influence against foreign cities.

 

[God of Kings]

It would not be unimaginable that the water park would give tourism and maybe offensive influence against foreign cities.

Coney Island, Atlantic City Boardwalk, Cedar Point, Blackpool, and such come to mind.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yes, that's why we know the name. We also know where it is in the tree. But we don't know what it does exactly - presumably it is similar to the EC in a way and gives amenities. But there has to be something that makes it different besides placement rules.
Or maybe the Entertainment complex will be changed and is more about loyalty than amenities, with the more late game water park being the main amenity district?

Don't we know that amenities are already tied to loyalty anyway in one of the livestreams? Cities will already be more loyal if they are happy. It would make since that a pier with a Ferris wheel generates some sort of tourism along with amenities.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

While watching the Korea video, at 52:06 they quickly hold over the entertainment complex and it say it can not be built in a city with a water park, why?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

While watching the Korea video, at 52:06 they quickly hold over the entertainment complex and it say it can not be built in a city with a water park why?

That's too much fun for one city to handle.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

While watching the Korea video, at 52:06 they quickly hold over the entertainment complex and it say it can not be built in a city with a water park, why?

You're right. I just paused it.
Edit: It is just a district for amenities built over water.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

You're right. I just paused it.
Edit: It is just a district for amenities built over water.

If they have the exact same purpose there is really not all that much reason for the water parks existance other than saving a few tiles.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If they have the exact same purpose there is really not all that much reason for the water parks existance other than saving a few tiles.

I've been saying maybe tourism based off of amenities all along, although I didn't know you couldn't have both in a city up until now.
Unless it is to save room on the land for something else, which wouldn't make much since at all.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Now I understand that the whole series is a little abstract and conceptual, and you have to just accept that time and and space work a little differently than you might expect; but it's stretching my imagination a bit too much when there is a giant dedicated "water park" area the size of an entire city that stretches out miles into the ocean.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I've been saying maybe tourism based off of amenities all along, although I didn't know you couldn't have both in a city up until now.
Unless it is to save room on the land for something else, which wouldn't make much since at all.

I would suspect something like that. Anyway you don't need an entertainment complex everywhere due to the area of effect buildings so the requirement of not having an entertainment complex would not be that problematic and it will likely make cities near coast somewhat more valuable, especially together with the governor fishery improvement.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

When you think about it (because, in my sense, the Water Park could only be built on coast rather than in the middle of the ocean), the only who might be reluctant to build Water Park would be, ironically, the Netherlands, because they need all this precious coast to build their sweet and wonderful tulip-powered doomsday devices-- hem, I mean, polder.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

When you think about it (because, in my sense, the Water Park could only be built on coast rather than in the middle of the ocean), the only who might be reluctant to build Water Park would be, ironically, the Netherlands, because they need all this precious coast to build their sweet and wonderful tulip-powered doomsday devices-- hem, I mean, polder.

Harbours have the same problem which is pretty funny