[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Boris Gudenuf]

Probably an unpopular suggestion, but seeing as how the AI gets all sorts of perks to prop them up, I wouldn't be opposed to AI players and city-states having their units auto-upgrade for no cost when they unlock a better unit. Maybe one unit per turn so that if you're in a war with them they don't all turn from Musketmen>Infantry instantly.

It would be a bit unfair, but, honestly, preferable to fighting against AI that's not only incompetent but also using outdated units.

Agreed - ANYTHING would be better than what the game has now.

I just finished a game in which I Turtled and went for a Cultural Victory, but kept my army strong so I wouldn't get surprised while piling up National Parks and Seaside Resorts. At the end, I had just upgraded to Infantry and Battleships, and my two nearest neighbors were still fielding Heavy Chariots and Pikemen - one of them apparently never got Iron and so still faced me with Spearmen and Warriors! Any kind of combat action after about the first 100 turns is Pathetic: the AI not only has no tactics, it has no contemporary units if they require any kind of Resource to upgrade.

You actually have to consciously avoid getting a Domination Victory to get any other type: it's so easy to militarily steamroller the AI by the Renaissance that to wait for, say, a Science Victory requires a very unreal style of play for the last 2/3 of the game. I'll be honest, I haven't had the patience to get a Science Victory yet - I either wrap it up with a 'Blitz' Domination ending in the Industrial Era, or quit in disgust and start another game...

Perhaps by the next Upgrade package to the game they can include a thorough revision of the Resource Requirements, Upgrade Paths, and Tech Tree...

 

[agonistes]

Don't forget that a city-state has to be able to afford the maintenance on its units.

Agreed - ANYTHING would be better than what the game has now.

I just finished a game in which I Turtled and went for a Cultural Victory, but kept my army strong so I wouldn't get surprised while piling up National Parks and Seaside Resorts. At the end, I had just upgraded to Infantry and Battleships, and my two nearest neighbors were still fielding Heavy Chariots and Pikemen - one of them apparently never got Iron and so still faced me with Spearmen and Warriors! Any kind of combat action after about the first 100 turns is Pathetic: the AI not only has no tactics, it has no contemporary units if they require any kind of Resource to upgrade.

You actually have to consciously avoid getting a Domination Victory to get any other type: it's so easy to militarily steamroller the AI by the Renaissance that to wait for, say, a Science Victory requires a very unreal style of play for the last 2/3 of the game. I'll be honest, I haven't had the patience to get a Science Victory yet - I either wrap it up with a 'Blitz' Domination ending in the Industrial Era, or quit in disgust and start another game...

Perhaps by the next Upgrade package to the game they can include a thorough revision of the Resource Requirements, Upgrade Paths, and Tech Tree...

If they taught the ai to reserve gold for upgrades, that would do wonders.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Maybe time to update the tooltip of the barracks and stable.

There's a lot of things missing in tooltips.

Bananas can be harvested with Irrigation, Crabs with Celestial Navigation, but neither of the two is actually ever listed.

There's missing mentions of envoys (I think it's with Cultural Heritage) (the icon anyway).

 

[Kimiimaro]

Four days!

 

[AvianBritish]

Four days!

I can't believe how close it is and yet we still need to wait 2 more days to know about the final Civ. I hole the Zulus have some sort of cool cattle/pastures ability just to make them a bit more intresting and not all warmongery.

But either way, I can't wait to play!

 

[Leyrann]

Agreed - ANYTHING would be better than what the game has now.

I just finished a game in which I Turtled and went for a Cultural Victory, but kept my army strong so I wouldn't get surprised while piling up National Parks and Seaside Resorts. At the end, I had just upgraded to Infantry and Battleships, and my two nearest neighbors were still fielding Heavy Chariots and Pikemen - one of them apparently never got Iron and so still faced me with Spearmen and Warriors! Any kind of combat action after about the first 100 turns is Pathetic: the AI not only has no tactics, it has no contemporary units if they require any kind of Resource to upgrade.

You actually have to consciously avoid getting a Domination Victory to get any other type: it's so easy to militarily steamroller the AI by the Renaissance that to wait for, say, a Science Victory requires a very unreal style of play for the last 2/3 of the game. I'll be honest, I haven't had the patience to get a Science Victory yet - I either wrap it up with a 'Blitz' Domination ending in the Industrial Era, or quit in disgust and start another game...

Perhaps by the next Upgrade package to the game they can include a thorough revision of the Resource Requirements, Upgrade Paths, and Tech Tree...

Sounds to me like you just need to play on larger maps. I've actually scaled down map size because I felt like domination or religious victory just took too long on a huge map.

 

[CivLuvah]

Sounds to me like you just need to play on larger maps. I've actually scaled down map size because I felt like domination or religious victory just took too long on a huge map.

True. I tried going for a domination victory on a Huge map before and I failed to own every capital. On the other hand, when I tried it on a standard map I was able to achieve a domination victory.

 

[liv]

So we will likely get a Zulu tease tomorrow? Last one. Even if the civs were spoiled they were still fun so they will be missed

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Sounds to me like you just need to play on larger maps. I've actually scaled down map size because I felt like domination or religious victory just took too long on a huge map.

I've never played on a Huge map, because, unfortunately, my old Mac can't handle them - slows time between turns down to glacial. I have won a Domination Victory on Standard and Large maps, and Cultural on Large map, but a Science victory has eluded me on both: long before I reach the last Techs, I've given up waiting and just conquered everybody, or slapped down a bunch of Resorts and National Parks and cultured the AI to death.
I repeat, with the current AI's handling of units and upgrades, ANY Domination game becomes a steamroller after about the Renaissance. In fact, I don't think I've ever built any unit later than Infantry or Artillery, and in all my games I've only built about 2 aircraft of any type - I still have no idea how the Tank or Modern Armor graphics look, because I've never needed them.

I do not consider this a Good Thing: I've written books about WWII armor, furcryingoutloud, and I'd like to field them in a game. But to do that, I'd have to 'sandbag' for about 1-1/2 Eras to make the game last long enough: it's artificial and turns the game into a twisted form of sandbox. I would dearly LOVE to see the AI come at me with Industrial or Modern Era units, but it ain't happened yet...

 

[Zaarin]

I've never played on a Huge map, because, unfortunately, my old Mac can't handle them - slows time between turns down to glacial. I have won a Domination Victory on Standard and Large maps, and Cultural on Large map, but a Science victory has eluded me on both: long before I reach the last Techs, I've given up waiting and just conquered everybody, or slapped down a bunch of Resorts and National Parks and cultured the AI to death.
I repeat, with the current AI's handling of units and upgrades, ANY Domination game becomes a steamroller after about the Renaissance. In fact, I don't think I've ever built any unit later than Infantry or Artillery, and in all my games I've only built about 2 aircraft of any type - I still have no idea how the Tank or Modern Armor graphics look, because I've never needed them.

I do not consider this a Good Thing: I've written books about WWII armor, furcryingoutloud, and I'd like to field them in a game. But to do that, I'd have to 'sandbag' for about 1-1/2 Eras to make the game last long enough: it's artificial and turns the game into a twisted form of sandbox. I would dearly LOVE to see the AI come at me with Industrial or Modern Era units, but it ain't happened yet...

I built aircraft for the first time in my last game. I never had occasion to use them, but they looked cool hovering over my civilization anyway.

 

[Disgustipated]

I use aircraft all the time if going for a conquest victory. I know this sounds weird, but I'd rather build my civilization up to the point of bombers and helicopters and conquer everyone that way. Even if it's technically longer than doing it in the industrial age. It's so annoying moving a 2 move bombard or artillery around the map, I'd rather wait for bombers instead. You can conquer like 4 cities at once (more if you really try) with bombers and helicopters.

 

[AvianBritish]

I love the aircraft mechanics in Civ6; they look cool when deployed and I think it's great how you can station them in Aerodomes and Airfields; the only annoying thing is that they come into the game so late and it takes so long to build the aerodrome and hanger; that it's just not worth it unless you have a city not doing anything at that moment in time.

 

[Katakanja]

I built aircraft for the first time in my last game. I never had occasion to use them, but they looked cool hovering over my civilization anyway.

I build biplanes quite often, but their sole purpose is to trigger the eureka for advanced flight. Much like yourself I think I can count the number of times I've used them in anger on one hand though

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well, based on everybody's comments, I guess I'll have to sandbag a bit.

I just started a game as China (because, using a Mac, I expect to have to wait another month or so to play R&F) so I guess I'll try to stretch it out until I can use Flying Tigers as well as Crouching Tigers...

 

[Ondolindë]

I just find it comical to see a helicopter transform itself into a ship of sorts when entering lakes, coast and ocean tiles. Why is that?

 

[Zaarin]

I just find it comical to see a helicopter transform itself into a ship of sorts when entering lakes, coast and ocean tiles. Why is that?

Because helicopters are "cavalry."

 

[Disgustipated]

I just find it comical to see a helicopter transform itself into a ship of sorts when entering lakes, coast and ocean tiles. Why is that?

Yeah because it's a land unit. Kind of annoying too, because helicopters can't attack ships either.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Yeah because it's a land unit. Kind of annoying too, because helicopters can't attack ships either.

Another example of the 'straitjacket' Civ Unit classifications.

- And a particularly bad one since helicopters have been used since at least the Falklands War to help decoy/defeat incoming missiles targeting ships, and to fire missiles against ships, and to extend the effective range of ships' weapons by spotting for them 'over the horizon'. But I suppose none of that is possible when you have a cavalry horse for a pilot...

 

[Disgustipated]

not to mention the most important role of anti-submarine warfare...

 

[thecrazyscot]

The best representation of helicopters in civ is still Civ 2.