Rise and fall of the roman empire

[the_Monarch]

Wow! A lot has happened since I last looked.
@Drendor: First my sincerest condoleances to Consul Linkowicius for his terrible bad luck! I thought I was the only one harassed by such a tedious harpy . The only thing I would hold you accountable for would be the fact that you signed a RoP with Magna Graecia and Cisalpine Gaul, our long hated enemies. Well time will tell if I'm right. Congrats on the two FL's though and many more to come!
You said you were also training some Miles Socii and Eques. I doubt a 2hp cavalry is worth supporting. My hope was that pink gave the eques normal hps. Oh well, one unit I'll never bother with although I liked its graphics.

@Consul Civfan: you seem to have saved the day with that elite ship and the rest. Tell me, did you have to load the game? Well it doesn't matter only for my curiosity (because if you haven't, you're one lucky b@st@rd - hope you take it as a compliment ). Also I was curious, by the time you got "ill", what were the westernmost cities controlled by Rome? Did we manage to get a hold on Valentia? I think this city is vital to meet Hannibal in battle as it's near Carthago Nova and conveniently beyond a river. Anyway great report.

@Traianus: I'm sure the people of Rome will be tired of war by the time you ascend to power but I'm also sure you will be the one to tell them there's no other way to greatness. I'm guessing you're gonna go for Cisalpine Gaul? Wouldn't it be easier to take Bovianum and Syracusae before, now that the main army is south? Those Samnites were asking for it. Just a thought.

@Pink: I've only now managed to download the patch and I like what I see.
Well I liked your version of the pyramids more too . I hope you don't mind me taking that and some of the wonder splahes from RFRE. Cool leaderheads too. But the best part of all is the playable stuff I suppose. I'll just familiarize myself with the biqs before my turn which will probably coincide with Hannibal's march . Wouldn't miss out on that one for the world !!

Well good luck to you all since that seems to be the main difference between the king and the pauper!

 

[Drendor]

It´s time for senator Linkowicius to answer and take resposneability for his time as consul:

Captain Beaver: You are right about that I could have waited with my troops in Messana after the war declaration. Still though: I have never seen the AI attack a city with a full hp army stationed in it throughout my games so I dont know about the "let them invade on army until they are no more"-tactic.
Besides, it was darn bad luck to get two veteran legions at full health fortified in coastal fortress wiped out in two attempts out of two. Such bad luck is hard to take into consideration.
Also: one disadvantage with waiting 3 turns is that you only have a limited number of turns to work with after a war declaration until its time to sue for peace again due to war weariness.
As you know i assigned both consular armies to Sicilly. Wich resulted in the rapid conquest of all Carthagian strongholds on Sicilly except Agrigentum.
I´m extra satisfied with the smooth conquest of Lilybaeum, a city with walls and harbour on hills with a fortfied elite troop with 6 defense.
I left Sardinia and Corsic island for my successors.

Gaias: I did move those ships to Croton and Messana area but I had no luck in finding pirate ships. Note: I always end my naval movement in port so the 8 point movement units have a search radius of 4.
I did win 3 naval combats with veteran units but BAD LUCK AGAIN prevented our ships to promote to elite.

To your specific question: I dont know what progress Carthage made against Magna Greacia in the Massilia, Narbo and Saguntum area. I had no opportunity to send troops to that area anyway so I focused completely on Sicilly.
Maybe ApolytonCivfan knows more about this?

Monarch: Dont underestimate the new eques. They now have 8 attack instead of 7. They have an improved antislave-value and NO popcost so I do think they have their uses. I somtimes build them when I´m waiting for a city to grow it´s population. The miles socius shouldnt be looked down upon either. When it´s time for the reforms of Marius every Miles socius will be very valuable. 1 pop instead of 3 makes a HUGE diffrence. I agree that building legio is important but a miles and eques here and there will help as well.
The velites then? Hmmm... they have been nerfed but they are still very good against units with 1 point movement (read hoplai). They will be useless against the barbarians when we fight in AD.

Congratulations on the long waited for elite ship!!!!!!

Strength and Honor!

Senator Linkowicius

 

[Traianus]

Consul Marcus Licinius Traianus will make all all efforts to extend the influence of the Roman Republic. It is more than our duty. It is a simple question of destiny. However, only the fool attempts war on all fronts and it appears obvious then, that with the Carthaginian curs currently being tamed to the south we will have the luxury of choosing only one further target during the coming consulship.
I therefore move that we consolidate our position as masters of Italia and I respectfully request that the senate grant me leave to send emmisaries to the outlaw cities of Bovianum and Syracusae with a simple ultimatum; that they dismantle their military forces and surrender their gates to the senate and people of Rome... under pain of death.
It has, of course, not slipped my mind that we need ever be watchful of the treacherous Gauls to the north, however, I feel at this time that they are cowed by our growing strength and will not be tempted to betray the hospitallity of our borders with their filthy hordes. In short, senators - they can wait!
I feel I must raise the question of raising our legionary strength further in the conflict to the south. Lilybeum and Carales both seem ideal locations for recruitment of our cheap foreign legions. They will be needed if a final push to rid the medditerranean islands of the phoenician threat is to be realised.
Further I wish to address the request of outgoing consul civfan that an expedition be sent to contact the nations of the eastern Medditerranean. It seems a reasonable goal with one caveat in the form of the threat of piracy. I request the council of the senate on this matter.
A final thought. At first glance, I find the decision to commision 'Mare Nostrum' in Pisae somewhat quizical! Surely a port of more strategic value would be more suitable. I personally would nominate neapolis. I believe that further dabate is needed. However, I remind the senate that, with the completion date of c.253bc approaching, a decision will have to be reached promptly.
Strength and Honour.

 

[Drendor]

Consul Marcus Licinius Traianus will make all all efforts to extend the influence of the Roman Republic. It is more than our duty. It is a simple question of destiny. However, only the fool attempts war on all fronts and it appears obvious then, that with the Carthaginian curs currently being tamed to the south we will have the luxury of choosing only one further target during the coming consulship.
I therefore move that we consolidate our position as masters of Italia and I respectfully request that the senate grant me leave to send emmisaries to the outlaw cities of Bovianum and Syracusae with a simple ultimatum; that they dismantle their military forces and surrender their gates to the senate and people of Rome... under pain of death.
It has, of course, not slipped my mind that we need ever be watchful of the treacherous Gauls to the north, however, I feel at this time that they are cowed by our growing strength and will not be tempted to betray the hospitallity of our borders with their filthy hordes. In short, senators - they can wait!
I feel I must raise the question of raising our legionary strength further in the conflict to the south. Lilybeum and Carales both seem ideal locations for recruitment of our cheap foreign legions. They will be needed if a final push to rid the medditerranean islands of the phoenician threat is to be realised.
Further I wish to address the request of outgoing consul civfan that an expedition be sent to contact the nations of the eastern Medditerranean. It seems a reasonable goal with one caveat in the form of the threat of piracy. I request the council of the senate on this matter.
A final thought. At first glance, I find the decision to commision 'Mare Nostrum' in Pisae somewhat quizical! Surely a port of more strategic value would be more suitable. I personally would nominate neapolis. I believe that further dabate is needed. However, I remind the senate that, with the completion date of c.253bc approaching, a decision will have to be reached promptly.
Strength and Honour.

You had better check that we have no diplomatic agreements with Magna Greacic before you declare war on them.
The celts in the north would be the next logical target when Bovanium and Syracuse haave been conquered. After that we can either turn west and go for Massilia and get starting positions for the second punic war. I favor a push east after the celts are defeated though. The Illyrian cities are close to Rome and therefore has little corruption, meaning they have good production.
We should also capture the Thrakian goldmines as soon as possible but of course our main foe Carthage decides how much effort we can spend in the east.

A naval expedition to make contact with the eastern empires seems like a good idea, I´m all for it. Maybe we should wait until we have the more sturdy corvus? The expedition could consist of one trireme for defensive bombardment and scouting and one corvus for battle and a possibility to capture enemy ships. I don´t know wich route is the best though to avoid hordes of pirates. Maybe sail south towards Carthage and then head east towards Alexandria following the north african coast?

I also think that it would be much better to build the Mare Nostrum in Neapel. Our corvus would arrive much closer to the action.

 

[Traianus]

I checked the diplo. We have ROP(2) and Alliance v.Carthage(7) agreements with Magna Graecia. No gpt though. I suppose it's a reputation hit vs. the addition of two high production cities. Being a new war effort, will the senate will need to vote on this?
Also, I was thinking. Would it be an idea to number all new legions? I normally do this in my own RFRE games. I started it for fun but found it useful afterwards.

 

[apolytonCivfan]

For senate meetings

war with magnia graecia. I vote NO for war. reasons: need to for fight against Carthage later.

war with northern celts. I vote YES. reasons: take control of italy. Wait though till rop with them is finsihed. dont want to ruin our reputation.

When alliance with Magnia Graecia is over against carthage, make peace with carthage. wont ruin are reps. Demand massive amounts of gold per turn plus their treasury

 

[Traianus]

I see your point. But it's for that very reason (Italian unification) I wish to take Bov. and Syr. However, there is the rep. damage to consider and we are living in a Republic afterall so I'll wait for further senate votes before proceding.

 

[the_Monarch]

I, Publius Monarchus, leader of the hawk party vote yes for war with Magna Graecia first and with Cisalpine Gaul afterwards. We shall not permit the Samnite threat right at the gates of Rome. As for them beeing allies... You should really see if Massalia is on their side or in Carthaginian hands. In both cases I think that city is vital to our defense against Hannibal. After Massalia the Cisalpine Gauls should be surrounded on all flanks and shall submit to Roman authority right away.

I don't believe peace with Carthage brought all island cities to our influence, has it, consul? Could it be that we've lost all hope of gaining a foothold in Olbia, Aleria, Palma let alone Valentia? Rome's borders need strongpoints.

Tell us, consul Marcus Licinius Traianus, for my curiosity is still unappeased, what is our current situation? We, the Hawks, ensure you of our faith that Rome, under your leadership, however short, will prevail.

Btw, seems that 24 hours is more than enough for you guys to get a grip on things so I best prepare myself for an early blood and Carthaginian bacon on Sunday morning . Best of luck Traianus.

 

[the_Monarch]

But you could amass the troops before the RoP expires and declare war right after that to Magna Graecia. Ufffff, Drendor's "doves" and their RoP with our hated enemies!! Sorta reminds me of civ 2 and senate interference .

 

[Traianus]

I must remind the honourable senator that peace is not yet on the table as far the Punic dogs are concerned. They have yet much blood to shed by way of Roman steel. The islands will be secured. It is a fact!
Senate votes to date are 1 for war with the Gauls and 1 for war with the Greeks. I wonder if we are working with the consular veto in case of a tie? As it stands, I would be in favour of a military build up in greek territory with a view to complete invasion in 248BC when this false treaty expires.
We Romans are a proud race. I cannot abide the presence of greek cities a mere stone's throw from the walls of Rome. If you call me intolerant, then I say I am intolerant! Better that, than accept a foreign power on rightful Roman land. My coleague, senator Civfan himself has said that Italy must be controlled... and I agree with him. The Gauls will pay for all past sins. However, which do we look to first? A distant horde of filthy inbred savages who seem not to have the inclination, never mind ability, to organise themselves into anyting resembling an army... or the Greeks on our very own doorstep? And they are organised and, need I remind the senate, they have memories of crushing defeats not twenty years old in their heads and hearts. Some will say that it was not these Greeks under the command of the accursed Pyhrus but I say a Greek is a Greek! I do not trust them and I do not want them within the confines of Italia.
I, of course, am bound by the rule of the senate and people of Rome. I will follow with a full heart and strong swordarm, whatever path is laid before me but I urge you good men of the senate to sanction the elimination of, from Roman lands, these Greek intruders.
S.P.Q.R.
Strength and Honour.

 

[Drendor]

How important is our reputation? We will loose the ability to make trade deals in the future that involves us paying in gold/turn if we have bad rep right?

I dont think we will need to make that many deals of those.....

Any other bad side-effects with negative reputation?

How is the war against Carthage faring? What happens with rep if we make peace with Carthage before our alliance with Magna Greacic expires?

One alternative strategy: Move forces north and conquer Cesalpine celts. If western greeks still hold Massilia we position our troops against Massilia, Syracuse and Bovanium after the celts are subdued. This way our reputation remains intact and we only need to declare war on western greeks once to conquer them.

To the hawks: the rop with cesalpine celts and western greeks will soon be over and I wanted to protect our weak northern borders while we were busy on Sicilly. Vote for Linkowicius Vote for pragmatism!

 

[Gaias]

Consul Traianus, it would be advisable for you to decree the immediate production of 3 to 4 triremes for our emissaries travelling to the east. Reports of large pirate activity is known around the island of Crete and the Aegean Sea. Make it known that the captains of the ships that these vile barbarians of the sea should be eliminated once they are spotted.

WHEN our emisarries reach Asia Minor (as I expect no less than resounding success in this endeavor), I would be interested in the establishment of embassies in both Bithynia and Galatia. These... countries (if they would presume themselves to be ) could easily be persuaded to aid us in future agendas that we will have in that area. Then again, when one becomes a ally with Rome, the are a province of Rome, its usually they who do not know it yet! *laughs abrubtly*

Would it not make perfect sense to start the immediate production of a Portus Naves in Agrigentum. One can not known when such a port stronghold could be used, though Carthage does come to mind. We could use the such fine timber that Sicily is known to have in that area. It would have been convenient to have had Syracuse under our domain to make a sister Portus Navis. But then again you cannot be held accountable for another consul's past mistakes? Imagine what a grand port we could make with this fine timber from Sicily in Rome? Grand dreams indeed.

Of domestic concerns, would it not be wise to focus on mines near Rome. Our quota of baser metals and precious stones has been low of late. There are many rich hills in and around Roma, it would be well advised to start mining there about with our aquired slaves. It would greatly increase the production of the citizens of Roma to be able to obtain such high quality metals and stones from a local source. Also increasing our coffers with new taxes such trade would bring in.

I have given praise and sacrifice to Jupiter, Mars, and Neptune for all your future endeavors and garanteed successes!

 

[Traianus]

Many thanks , Senator Gaias. Your words of encouragement will add weight to our noble cause.


War with Carthage is still far from complete. Olbia, Aleria and Palma still await the sword. Any peace deal should include Saguntum or Valentia. I would think I'll be spending the entire consulship at war with them. How long has this war been going? Is war weariness likely to be a major factor?

 

[Gaias]

I, Senator Gaias, vote for the systematic conquest of the city Bovainum. Long has Magna Graeci catered to the whims of Samnite devils. Let them be cleansed from Latium once and for all! They dare attack citizens on Rome, and we worry what others might think of us? Let them think we are stong and not to be triffle with, less those that oppose us err on the side of our wrath! Down with the Samnites once and for all!

Though my ways are not of the warrior, I do believe that Illyria is a more viable target after our skill with Carthage is over. It has considerable strategic value to the lands in the east. Such value in fact, that one might be able to ferry over troops with ease if our eyes linger on the east more than a glance. Then of course if we hold the lands to the south and east of Gallia Cisalpina, we hold them on two fronts. Much easier to crush and and with two hand instead of one, don't you think?

Also Consul Traianus, when you demand peace reparations for Rome, make it known that Rome wants the control of Malacca. It is a fairly small colony within the Carthagian influence. If you are to negotiate a reclamation deal for it, it would give us a foothold in Carthage territory in Iberia. Could be quite useful if Carthage procedes itself with expansionistic tendicies, and we are forced to show Carthage its wrongful ways.

 

[the_Monarch]

Then I guess it's settled. Bovianum must fall before daybreak, consul. Not a single Samnite must come of it and defile Roman land. Senator Gaias is a long time reputed member of the hawk party. We shall overlook the doves transgression with their RoP on one condition: that they, and their cunning skill for diplomacy manage to "persuade" Pergamum and Bithynia to join our cause and "will" their cities to Rome. Of course serious funds are required for this endeavour so consul Traianus is expected to extract severe war taxes from the impudent Carthaginians, whenever time is right. Do not haste to make peace, haste to position your troops accordingly. We all agree that by the end of your mandate the whole of Italy MUST be Roman.

However senator Gaias should also think of an expansion westwards towards the luxuries of Narbo and to the link between Valentia and Massalia if both of them shall become Roman. We shouldn't expand in too many directions and although I remeber from my youth experiences that Illyria was not that hard to overcome and that it was a rich farm for foreign legions, I also remeber I never looked eastwards until the west was secure. We must deny the strong their comfort, in this case we must make Carthage pay (delende Carthago), for we all know that an adventurous campaig eastwards will leave the road wide open for the western scum.

I see you ask of war weariness. But my dear consul it is you who should answer that question for it is to you that the advisors account to. My opinion is that, since WE were the ones that declared war on them and since that war is slow and tedious the Romans will take to the streets and riot as we speak. But an iron will will put an end to the mob. It is up to you to cover yourself with laurels or shamefully fade into oblivion...

 

[Traianus]

Salve! Into history we advance.

 

[the_Monarch]

To senator Drendor: for a dove, my fellow senator you do not prize the value of reputation and diplomacy well enough. For no sooner shall we start to break our engagements than we shall find ourselves attacked from all fronts. As a republic we cannot afford to lose our reputation. When an emperor shall have a stronger army than any other foe can yield he might, by his own will, offend our neighbours' trust. But until then we must asure our borders. I suggest making Egypt our friend for they are among the last to be conquered on our list and their port of Alexandria will surely benefit our trade in the east once we get there.

However other matters are of strict importance right as we speak: the 3 island cities are your first objective, consul. Then, by the middle of your mandate you should amass your troops near Syracusae and Bovianum. Make sure Bovianum is attacked by our consular armies to minimize our losses for it is well fortified. Once these two cities fall peace shall reign in the south. By the end of your mandate you should have amassed all offensive troops at the northern border. We shall discuss weather east or west should be our next objective but I say even now that the legions will proudly march westwards. For the reasons I mentioned above. Imagine the disaster when the second punic war starts and we are ingaged in an unhistorical struggle with Illyria. They shall not bother us before we reach Carthago Nova for they lack the Animus Barbarii. That is all for today: strength and honor!

 

[Traianus]

Agreed, senator Monarchus. We will meet you at the northern border. Does the senate have any response to my proposed reform of the legions? I believe the common soldiery would appreciate a more personalised approach to their designation. They are, afterall, a superstitious lot. With the aid of the past consuls, new legionary insignia could be decided upon very quickly. For my part, I vow you would see a legio XVII 'Syracusa'.

 

[Gaias]

I see the wisdom and truth of your words senator Monarch when you say that westward is the key to the strength of Rome. My statement was hinged on facts of wealth and resources, not of tactical logistics. Once again I claim my lack of a warriors grace, for my skills lie more with domestic administration. I concede to the wisdom and honor of the hungry eagles that lay their eyes to the west.

Consul Traianus, let your enemies feel the strength of your sword arm and tremble at the size of you manhood!

 

[Traianus]

The ROP is now defunct between us and Magna Gr. However, the All.v.Carhago still has five turns to go. Will rep. be damaged by war now or is it ok to procede?