Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Drendor, Mar 20, 2006.
Breaking the alliance will damage our reputation. I would recommend to wait for the alliance to pass. We will need a good reputation to organize a war effort later on against Pontus. To me they are a real threat to the future.
As the ROP is now over, you can mass troops outside the territory of Magnia Graecia. As it seems this will be the next target for roman expansion.
*suddenly waking up after a nap during the long senatorial session*
*hearing about a vote pointing toward a war with the Samnites*
*Standing up with a reddish and infuriated face*
The greeaaaaat (and definitely chubby) Senator Olivero won’t stand another war in the South. Northern lands must be protected and the Gauls and Illyrians have been daringly raiding through our borders again and again! Hear me brothers!
Tell me Consul Marcus Licinius Traianus, what benefits we could have from a backwater village lost in the Apennines. Bovianum has no economic or strategic importance, it is isolated and worthless. In addition, my spies report that conquering this eagle stronghold (250%+40% in defence!!!) would be a hazardous undertaking, and losses are likely to be very high unless you Consul want to set a siege for the forthcoming 10 years?
There are better ways to extend to grandeur of Rome. Let’s bring civilization to these Celtic wretches! Let’s us show to pirates who rules the Sea. Let’s make my…uh… our estates more wealthy by securing new fertile lands along the Po river!
I -senator Olivero- vote for a WAR in the NORTH as soon as we are done with the Punic rats. Let’s us deal with the remaining Greeks later on (when we have many ballista), as they are harmless (to my estates) and have shown to be good friends in adversity against Carthago. We Romans must respect our allies and protect our friends.
On another note, I agree here with my colleagues that our new shipyard would be better located South in Neapolis (although Ariminium came to my mind as well) while indeed any legion should be properly named. And that’s not just a number but also a nickname from the Consul was has raised them. It remains to me to wish you Consul, great success against our enemies.
Looking good! I have no access to internet over the weekend, so I hope I could be done with my turn beforehand. Or maybe get the sav on Friday but then it will be hard to consult with my peers?
*looks over to Senator Olivero with bemused tolerance*
Ahhh! I see our GREAT and PORTLY Senator Olivero has grace us with his spoken exuberance. So good of you to join us finally Senator. It would seem your late night trist with the Macedonian envoy kept you up till the early hours of night. One must claim sleep where one is able, especially in the halls with matters of state at hand. *chuckles derisively*
Come now Senator Olivero, I jest. Your many years and vast knowlegde of such matters are a boon to us all. We would all be wise to heed the words of one such as Senator Olivero. I mean, if not wise with patience, how else would he have survive the tedium of these meetings? Hmmm? *slow smile spreads across Senator Gaias face*
To the war with Magna Graeci, Senator Olivero's insight cannot be ignore nor taken lightly. Greatly would I like to see the seething snakepit of vile contempt that is Bovianum, I am convinced by Senator Olivero that such an action is not worth the price of the Roman Legions... yet. Mark my word. Jupiter will strike down the Samnites with great vengence and Mars will crush all the remain beneath his might boot. The gods cannot be denied!
Ah yes, for the matter at hand. I do concur to the naming convention that Consul Traianus and my fellow Senators has brought forward. Might I be so bold as to make a suggestion? Considering the great honor we depart with these titles to the Roman Legion, should we not reward those with the most battle experience. Perhaps the elite of the elite should be rewarded with names such as "Legio IV Syracuse"? To show the prestige and strength of such Legios.
The hour is late and I must retire these procedings. Consider all we have said Consul Traianus and pick from it what you will. I have sleep I am in need of catching. For unlike other *glances over a Senator Olivero* some of us prefer the comfort of a bed and warmth of a woman, to the cool, hard embrace of the stone Forum.
I am outraged that this republic as fallen so low that we break our ROP and military alliances on a flicker of thought. Imagine the consequences when, in the future, we will want to wage war. Not a single nation will forget the honorless blood that will stain our hands and faces. They will ask exhorbitant prices for their help and will not even hesitate to back stab us, since we did the same to others. Is this the reputation of Rome we want abroad? Nay. We cannot allow our hunger for battle and riches dictate our decisions. Magnae Graecia will be Roman, of that I can promise you. But not this turn or the next. We must wait for the natural expiration of our contracts with them or risk losing the ability to divide other nations by creating wars serving no one's interest except Rome's. We need Macedonia against Greece and Dacia, Syria against the whole of Asia Minor and Egypt and we still need the Numids against Cartage. Have you all forgotten that this war is not finished? We cannot break Cartage today, merely reduce its size. The final assault on their capital will require help, help that only the barbarian Numids can offer.
For those reasons, I vote for WAR but against the northern Celts. Mediolanum will serve Rome's interests far more than Bovianum or Syracuse. Moreover, they will allow us to gain land routes to the barbarians of Illirycum and to the capital of Magna Graecia.
Concerning the Legion's reforms, I vote in favor of naming them after places and giving them a number.
Also, I would like to remind that, had we waited a bit more in Messana with the bulk of the army before venturing forth, the Cartaginians would have done a fine job for us of conquering Syracusa. Alas, I cannot change pasts mistakes, merely hope that they won't happen again.
Edit : Damn, just realized 2 posts were made while I was typing. Well, it is kinda hard to write well in a foreign language and to find a style that matches a senator's.
@Pink : Personnaly, on friday, I am errrrrrrrr... taking vacations in bars and clubs so count me out to discuss our strategies on that day.
PS. Traianus - when do you expect to finish your sequence? Should I wait the weekend over before starting my game, as I won't be there on Friday as well?
*in a hurry to a meeting*
I vote for northern celts first, Greeks later!
Ok it's settled then. Our armies shall march north but be warned that we shall not tolerate the Samnites for long. We should discourage their raids as soon as the Cisalpine Gauls are defeated.
The alliance should expire as soon as we sign peace with the wretched Carthaginians (this will of course damage our reputation if sooner than the military alliances against them expire anyway but that is something we will have to live with). Once peace is signed we have no more obligations towards the Gauls or the Greeks since, as I'm told, our RoP with them expired. So, in a swift blow (as I believe the roads to Ravenna and Mediolanum are complete) we shall overtake the scum of Gallia. But then I strongly suggest that, from a strategical point of view it is imperative to eliminate the gaps between our borders: Bovianum, Massalia and Syracusae (I wouldn't call the largest city on Sicily a mere village, senator Oliviero...) And the need of prime timber shouldn't even allow us a second thought.
If we manage to take Saguntum and/or Narbo the Hawks shall be most pleased and affirm their continuous support for the consul's upcomming mandates . Let us not forget the opportunity of Gaul goods in the area and the grip on Carthaginian soil. From my past experiences, I again recolect that apart from a few pirate raids, the Illyrians and Germans didn't pose any danger until our ancestors subdued Carthago Nova in a different simulation. So, by the time the 20 turns of peace with Carthage expire we should have our borders secure. Hannibal will not wait.
One more thing consul, when imposing a peace treaty you should really impose a regular tribute on Carthage (of at least 1gpt) so as to be able to "declare" war once the 20 turns expire and they will be less eager to pay .
Perhaps you senators should take a look at the main forum as there is another debate there. Of course senator Oliviero has the veto there but I hope he will see it our way.
About the legio naming, I suggested that earlier. Here's a list of historical legion names I employed in my earlier games :list of Roman Legions
Ever amenable and even-handed, the good senator Monarchus has demonstrated his vast knowledge of foreign affairs. Others in the senate would do well to pay close attention. The Greeks are not our friends. They never will be. However, enough arguement. The senate speaks and I obey. It will be the gauls who feel Roman steel in their gizzards this consulship.
On the matter of the punic expedition, I feel talk of peace is still somewhat premature. Our legions stand ready to take Olbia. Aleria must follow and boats have been commisioned to ferry a task force to the Balearic islands, where I hear the climate is most accomodating. The vast force assembled in Agrigentum will provide much of this army since it is now not required for the conquest of Syracusae. Therefore, our Reputation will be beyond reproach. The agreements with the Greeks should be long gone by the time peace is an option with Carthage.
In short, senators, be assured that I will first wring the necks of the Carthaginians before I squeeze their coffers dry!
I envisage this plan unfolding this very evening, senator Olivero. I see no further need of discussion. The sword has seen enough of it's scabbard and I intend to present a report and save of the grand exploits of the Taianii family's first consulship by morning.
May Saturn protect the senate and people of Rome!
Construction of Mare Nostrum moved to Neapolis. Legio begun in Lilybeum, Agrigentum and Pisae. Corvus in croton, Trireme in Tarentum, Eques in Roma,
Granaria in Capua.
Some forces moved towards north. Two further legions advancing towards Olbia.
Amphibious attacks repeled at Carales.Eques completed in Roma. Production of Velites begun. Completion of further stretches of road near Mediolanum.
Extra forces moved to northern border.
Further Amphibious attacks on Carales. No Casualties. Tarentum completes Trireme, starts Praesidium. Neapolis completes Mare Nostrum, starts Granaria.
Capua completes Granaria, starts f.Magnus.
Forces advance to Aleria with reenforcements shipped from Lilybeum to Carales.
Legio XIX completed in Pisae, began cumba. Miles socius in Arminium, began portus. Velites completed in Roma, began velites.
Legionary forces kill three defenders in Aleria without loss although our consular army is reduced to 2hp in the first assault. It appears that Aleria
is defended by funditores alone now. Samnite peltasts emerge from the vicinity of Bovianum and threaten a large contingent of our workers. They are under guard of one legio and two miles socii, however.
The newly commissioned forces are sent to the northern border.
Completion of a foreign legion is rushed in Agrigentum at a cost of 156g. A carthaginian troop of slaves is added to city population.
The samnite outlaws are defeated in a hail of pila. They retreat in the direction of Bovianum.
Completion of Carthaginian legio XX in Lilybeum, praesidium begun. SPQR legio XXI commisioned in Roma.
Velites bombard and critically wound the remaining defenders of Aleria. Legio X finishes them, becoming elite and earning the title 'Gemina'. Are you watching,
Caesar? The bull is born!
Cumba rushed in Panormus for 44g. Further roads begun in the direction of Genua. The ROP agreement here is expired but still in effect.
Mare Nostrum produces it's first corvus. Corvus produced in Croton, began Trireme. Further advancement of troops and road building in Cisalpine Gaul.
Roma produces velites, now producing opes in order to allow it's population to recover.
Our army numbers 21 legions now. Three of these are FL. My plan for my reminaing turns is to send forces from Pisae to Aleria, from Carales to Palma. When the current tyle of road is finished near Genua, I wil cancel the ROP and declare war next turn when they demand I leave their lands.
Should I renegociate the other expired ROP's. None of these civs seem to be very afluent at the moment.
Well done so far!
Dont sign peace with Carthage until our alliance with Magna Greacia expires.
Try to conquer all islands if possible but sign peace before lux is at 50% cause of war weariness.
When signing peace; either ask for a city, preferably in north africa to get a stronghold there OR in Spain so that we get a base close to Carthage Novo.
Or we could ask for their treasury and a hefty amount of gold per turn.
One trick with asking gold per turn is to for example ask for treasury + 41 gold/turn and offer peace + 1 gold per turn. Since we are actually giving them 1 gold per turn they will be reluctant to break the peace treaty before the 20 turns expires.
You know that we dont need a granary in Neapel until portus Campania gets obsolete? The same with Rome and some other cities.....
Renegociating ROP with Pergamum, Aeatolia, Achai and other nations that we wont encounter in a long time could add some nice extra gold coins to our ever hungry treasury.
Valentia, Valentia, Valentia!!!! Cartenna will be negociated AFTER the second Punic War.
Is this a bug? Double deals don't work in peace negociacions in my game. One side must pay tribute so I can never negociate to actually give something other than peace in return for their tribute (although I'd have liked to at some points when he is "very close to striking a deal" but won't accept money for it ).
Btw: great job, consul Traianus. Senator Drendor is right about the last RoPs.
250BC - Adendum
Production switched from granaria to Pharos in Neapolis. ROP signed with Aetolia, Achaia and Eastern Greeks. gold and 1gpt.
Pergamene fleet arrives off Sicilia, heading for Carthage. Their timing is perfect as we are about to sail for Palma and will need all the distractions
possible. Eight units board and sail. The plan unfolds. All velite units currently stationed in Sicilia coordinate a massive bombardment of Carthaginian
ships near the shore, heavily damaging a quinquereme. Simultaneously, our new corvus fleet sails toward Carales in order to distract the remaining Carthaginian fleet.
Our ruse works perfectly. The Carthaginian fleet ignores our task force in an attempt to engage the combined Roman/Pergamene threat.
Once again our velites bombard and injure the already weakened punic boats. The corvus fleet follows up with two kills and a promotion.
The Balearic taskforce safely lands near Palma as a smaller force disembarks north of Aleria.
Roma switches production to Eques to coincide with population growth in 3 turns.
Our Alliance with Magna Graecia is now expired, however, we feel it prudent to leave the agreement in place... for now.
More roads completed in Cisalpine Gaul. Our forces there are sizeable but not overwhelming. We will postpone our declaration of war until the last stretch of road to Genua is completed. Maybe by then we can free some of the forces engaged against the Phoenicians.
A cumba is rushed in Croton at a cost of 44g. We will need to start ferrying some of our Sicilian forces back to the mainland so that they can head north.
The Pergamene fleet mounts a direct invasion of Carthage, landing near Utica. We wish them luck, for they will surely need it. Brave men.
Our forces near Aleria as the attack begins on Palma. A cavalry charge rips through the first line of defenders without taking casualties, however the bombardment of our velites is without effect and we lose our first unit of miles socius all too easily. The second unit prevails, as do both legions, but the Punics still have a least five more units defending and their funditores are inflicting heavy casualties. It appears we will need more soldiers.
The up side is that war weariness seems to have had little effect so far.
We rush another cumba in Olbia so that forces maybe ferried north to Aleria.
Samnite Peltasts once again emerge from Bovianum, this time heading for Capua. A unit of velites intercepts them doing some damage.
War weariness finally rears it's ugly head, causing shortages in some punic cities. The lux slider is set to 20%.
Palma has received a bolster to it's garrison so our assault there has stalled. reenforcements will take time to arrive. Elsewhere, the city of Aleria is surrounded and will be the scene of heavy fighting soon.
The Carthaginian fleet is on the move again, but with no obvious target.
We have seen no more of the Pergamene fleet.
The Pergamene fleet returns from out of the fog, looking distinctly battered. The Phoenicians launch two amphibious attacks on Messana, killing the Mamertin but losing to a praesidium. Our fleets destroy a quiquereme and cumba near Lilybeum. Two velites are despatched to aid the Balearic taskforce but more will be surely needed if that city is to fall.
The consular army at Aleria defeats a defender followed by a nail-biting encounter when a velite, reduced to 1hp, kills a phalanx libianus. Legio IX completes the capture of the city.
I graciously hand over control of the armies now to incoming Consul Olivero. I wish I could say that the Punic campaign was complete, however, some work remains if Palma is to fall. I have begun the enlistment of funditores in both Olbia and Aleria. These units are quite effective in attack and defense, as we found out near Palma. As legions currently cannot be trained here, these will make excellent foreign units.
Our troops are positioned in the north, with more on the way, for the upcoming Cisalpine campaign. Again, I had wished to begin this invasion myself but I feel sure that my successor will redress this shortcoming.
Regarding the numbering of the legions; I have begun this process but, with the blood lust upon me, I left it too late to complete the task. I trust my successors will carry on this tradition.
Wishing you the speed and luck of the gods.
Outgoing consul Marcus Licinius Traianus.
Edit. My save game repeatedly refused to upload which is why I zipped it. I'm a little afraid now that it won't work on another machine. Let me know if so and I'll upload an original format version.
Good job Consul Traianus! The Senate applauds your exploits and will welcome you with all the honors due to your rank. We have elected Senator Olivero as replacement to continue the war with the Cartaginian scum.
The honor of putting an end to this war will surely fall to you, our newest Consul. But bear in mind that we still need contact with the eastern nations to sow the seeds of war in these far away lands. They will mature slowly, but once fully grown, the benefits will be simply overwhelming.
I just finished a tour of our forces to see if they could be contacted properly (meaning the save works), and I have found cause for alarm in some situations which natures had escaped me before. Please excuse me for my poor hearing of former Consul Traianus' report to the Senate, but some of his words have been lost to me due to, shall we say, a slight snoring made by a certain attentive Senator. However, it is now in my opinion that the war with Cartage cannot be ended with the simple capture of our pre-war objectives. The Cartaginian, although quite sloppy when it comes to military planning, were still able to conquer from the Greeks Narbo and Saguntum.
*Count on the Greeks to run away like women when fight is involved!* someone whispers, releasing some nervous laught
Thank you for your assessment of the situation senator. But mere jokes will not make Cartage abandon its prizes. I would like to vote on a measure extending our objectives to any city Cartage takes from the Greeks. These new targets will of course make the war longer and our citizens angrier, but it is imperative that we do not allow the ennemy to keep outposts between our provinces, effectively cutting the Republic into two separate territories. More troops will be needed, more legionnaires will die, but in the end, let us all remember that it is for the good of our children and their children that this war is fought.
Strenght & Honour.
Consul Traianus, I commend you on your bravery in the face of adversity from these Carthagian dogs. Your continuous victory (as their was no doubt) will surely strike fear into the citizens of Carthage. Though the war is all but finished, your tactical superiority has left nothing but for others to clean up.
Your inability to capture Palma quickly and easily in unfortunate, but not unexpected for such a target deep in enemy territory. It would served us well to have such a jewel of the sea in our grasp, to launch future attacks against our enemies. Rome is mighty and strong, yet even we are not immune to the failings of others. Learn this well.
Roma is the centre of all prestige, glory and wealth. We should not be wasting our time training the great citizens of Roma to Velite units. Our commanders train the citizens of Roma hard and produce soldiers that are twice the man of any other. We should constrain ourselves to training only worthy unit formations; Legio and Eques are strong, proud units that any citizen of Roma would be honored to join.
Our decision of training foreign nationals in the Legio formation is a stroke of genius. Using the newly captured citizen of conquered cities will bolster the might of our armies. Let us not forget that much of Latium still lays fallow and untapped. Reintergrating our captured slaves into Roman cities, while they could be used to work these fallow fields is not a wise decision. What is the strength of Rome if we cannot feed our own army? Think on that well.
Overall Consul Traianus you rule with iron determination and formiddable skill. We of the senate of Rome, commend you for your loyal service of office. The people of Rome commend you for the riches you have brought them. The gods of Rome commend you for the glory that you have brough in their name and the name of Rome!
(Although having arrived a bit late at today's senatorial session, Senator Olivero looks relativly fresh for an early morning speech)
My dears friends and collegues, Senators, we thank Senator Marcus Licinius Traianus for his efforts. It is with great honour that I take the nomination from the Senate to serve (use) the Republic once more. Although I must soon head in my Ariminium estate for private state affairs that will keep me busy for the weekend, I will do my best to discuss with you of the most urgent matters and strategic directions today. But first, I will need to hear from our envoys a more detailed account of the situation. I ask you Senators to delay the senatorial session for a couple of hours, so that I might plan our strategy (and take a nap) carefully and submit it to you before leaving to the North.
Very well so!
Very well, I have heard enough from our envoys.
Senators, for time is short and the seats of the Senate cold in this early spring, I will do it quick.
Outgoing Consul Traianus has left Rome in a very peculiar situation. It seems we are at a crossroad with many choices to make. For his successful war against Carthage, I say, the Consul and his predecessor have done a great good. Our armies are ruling the islands and I am sure Palma will fall soon. I won’t take the merit for such a take, for Palma -except for his good wine- is still a very small fish to catch, like the other islands we took and anyway, the prize for these new Roman provinces, even if small, will go to my young friend Traianus.
Now, you have wisely elected me to guide you as we are slowly coming out of our war with the Punics and looking north. Yes, NORTH, senators, NORTH where the great rivers flow out of the snow-covered mountains to water rich and fertile grasslands, NORTH where we will be able to open new horizons toward more trade with foreign nations, and I am sure more conquests. But it is also NORTH, the land of the Celts, these dogs and their bragging leaders, the like of Brennus, who thought they could plunder Rome and yet prosper. It is our duty to eradicate these people, or at least to put their wives, young men and children into slavery, while building news colonia and estates in these lands that are rightfully ours.
Let me come back to the current situation, as left by my young colleague Traianus. First, always first, on Italia. I observe that the Pharus has been commissioned in Neapolis. I doubt this is a wise choice, for the Mare Nostrum has been already built in the city and there is little need to have another military shipyard in the same port. If you ask me, Senators, I would keep this wonder for a much later time, it might come a day we will need the Pharus to connect new lands to Italy. With our war going north, we will soon no longer need to sail the seas on these aberrant and expensive ships.
I also notice a great deal of conscription is going on in the provinces of Italy. I understand we are in a war but at this pace the population of the whole Italy will soon be inferior to any of the Greek City state! I propose to start distributing grain and build granaries in the main cities of Italy, to encourage a healthy grow of our population.
Seeing how fast the Republic is spreading abroad, who knows, we might soon have a foothold in Spain; I also suggest that we put our next efforts on increasing the number of praetors to make sure new provinces are wisely managed (plundered). With your agreement, I will make sure this is undertaken in less than 2 years from now, although only my successor (unless you name me for a second mandate of course!) will be able to actually undertake the reform.
I also heard from outgoing Consul Traianus that he was too busy sailing go and forth between islands for actually properly rename our brave legions. I ensure you brothers than this will be done and proper tribute paid to the bravery of our soldiers. Each legion will be given a proper number, while it will remain the prerogative of the current consul to nickname a legion reaching the elite level.
Now, of matters of war, I will strike a peace with Carthage as soon as acceptable. I will of course get Palma first (so that we may get their nice wine readily available for our states parties) but I will not further strike them in their Spanish colonies, unless there is majority for it naturally, including those they stole from the Greeks (Narbo, Saguntum). The peace will involve hopefully the secession to us of one of these (or Valentia) and I will make sure I get some gold from them (with the possibility a little few of it goes to the Republic). In the matters of the war against the descendants of that wh*re, Dido, I believe our expensive navy is now quite able to fight them further and will make sure some of their ships roaming around Sicily are sunk before any peace is signed. It is time for some daring naval undertaking, especially now that my son has been named admiral.
For I will be away to Ariminum and not able to consult with you before Monday, I also want to seek with you whether you would agree, if the war against the Gauls goes well as it should, that I proceed with a quick strike on the Illyrians and their so-called ‘queen’ Teuta. I believe that for little costs, we could further use the troops mobilized north and extend our possessions. This will also ensure we have some good supply of timber, something we will really need if the so called hawk-party *eying Senator Monarchus (that’s a hideous feeling, to be looked upon by the dead fish eyes of Consul Olivero!)* keeps in mind a strike on Bovianum. You will need a great many siege engines to take the eagle nest!
To close this speech, and hear from you what you could possibly add (oh bother!), I have to share with you some concerns I got from a Macedonian friend of mine that a union between Carthage and Macedonia seems to be in the works, and they are some likeliness that they will consummate this union by striking our very close friends the Pergamenes. This is something I will have to confirm if happening, but it is disturbing nonetheless.
*Reading his notes*
Oups, and I quickly add that indeed, as soon as done with the nearby Punic navy, my son will sail east and make good contact with the Greeks of Aegypt and Orient.
Senator Olivero said:
"I also notice a great deal of conscription is going on in the provinces of Italy. I understand we are in a war but at this pace the population of the whole Italy will soon be inferior to any of the Greek City state! I propose to start distributing grain and build granaries in the main cities of Italy, to encourage a healthy grow of our population."
I agree but remember that cities with commercial ports and Rome with the senate dont need granaries. But building granaries in all other cities is mandatory.
Well, I have to go now. Without a clear signal from at least a few of you considering my bold strategies above, I will do my best and hope not upset too many follow senators!
Maybe should we start communicating by SMS
Separate names with a comma.