Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[Redking]

Perhaps more important than the crucifixion (in this context) was the advent of the New Testament/Gospels, indicating the spread of the religion rather than its inciting story. The creation of the aggragate Gospels would more directly correspond with the rapid opening of various church/basilica improvements, acting as a marker for the proselytizing movment's delay some time after the actual "passion".

Just a suggestion.

- Redking

 

[pinktilapia]

Hi folks,

Overview completed in the 2nd post! Sorry if it is arduous and lengthy to read!

 

[pinktilapia]

@redking

I do get your idea in a positive way, as you may have notice in the overview So, it will be (maybe, it will make other happy as well!):

1) Crucifixion, which makes local people in Jerusalem unhappy (reflecting Jewish troubles, in the same period)

2) Holy Christian Scriptures (when was the Bible written?), needing the Crucifixion as a prerequisite and increasing the effect of basilica (since we can't make it a prerequisite for Christian buildings throughout the map)

Beside to build Christian improvements, the sequence will be the following:

1. Build a Christian persecution in the city (need an adequate advance like something of the same name)
2. Build a Church (prerequisite: Christian persecution)
3. Build a Basilica (need a church and an advance like Constantin's Conversion)

 

[pinktilapia]

Built - effect -city (nation)

The Colossus - Vanilla - Built in Rhodes (Pergamum)
The Pharos - Vanilla (Great Lighthouse) - Built in Alexandria (Egypt)
The Great Library of Alexandria - + research - Built in Alexandria (Egypt)
The Great Library of Pergamum - + research - Built in Pergamum (Pergamum)
Phoenician Trade Empire - +1 trade - Built in Carthage (Carthage)
Hellenistic Academy - + research and culture - Built in Athenae (Greece city states)
The Oracle of Delphus - Vanilla - Built in Delphus (Greece city states)
The Pan-isthmic Games - +50% tax, +1 happy in each city - Built in Corinthus (Greece city states)
The Royal Palace of Persepolis - +5% treasury per turn - Built in Persepolis (Persia)
The Pyramids - Vanilla - Built in Memphis (Egypt)
Stonehenge - Increase effect of Cult Sites/Menhirs? - Built in ? (Celts)
The Temple of Salomon - ? - Built in Jerusalem (Egypt)
The Parthenon - ? - Built in Athenae (Greece city states)
Archimedes’ Workshop – Coastal Fortress in every city – Syracuse (Greece city states)
Mausoleum of Mausollos – Just culture – Halikarnassos (where is that?!)
Hanging Gardens – Obsolete – Babylon (Persia)
The Tomb of Kyros – ? – ? (Persia)
Carnac – ? – ? (Celts)
Ishtar Gate – ? – Babylon (Persia)
The Oracle of Siwa – ? – Uh…? (?)
Port of Tyros – trade port in every city – Tyros (Seleucids)
Holy Hain – ? – ? (Germanic tribes)

To be build by non-Roman – effect – nation

Barcas’ Leadership – Generate leader-unit – Carthage
Attila’s Leadership – Generate leader-unit – Steppes Nomads

WE NEED MORE OF THESE!

To be build by Roman – effect – nation

Scipio’s Leadership – Generate leader-unit
Marius’ Leadership – Generate leader-unit
Caesar’s Leadership – Generate leader-unit
Trajan’s Leadership – Generate leader-unit
Agrarian Law – Citizen unhappy in each city for a while, build improvement (limited citizenship) in each city which increase resistance to propaganda and war weariness
Dictator Perpertuus – two free tech (actually leading to imperialism)
Diocletian’s Reform – reduce war weariness, build barrack and corruption-control building (diocese) in each city
The Temple of Zeus - +5% treasury per turn (should it be built already?)
The Colosseum - + happiness in city, doubles sacrifice - Rome
Circus Maximus - + happiness in every city - Rome
Constantinople - 2nd Capital, generates Grand Legions - Byzantium
The Holy Scriptures – Effect of Basilica x2
The Crucifixion – Unhappiness in the city - Jerusalem
Colonization (better name wanted) – generate settlers
Limes – + city defense on continent
Hadrian’s wall – ?
Temple of Artemis – happiness in city (should it be built already?)
The Oriental Trade Road – +50% luxury and tax/trade
Ovids’ Work – Culture
Vergil's Books –Culture or?

Extra-Wonders-if-you-want-more-but-we-have-a-lot-already
The Capitol Hill (Rome)
The Palatin (Rome)
The Vatican Field (Rome)
Uprising of Palmyra/Gauls (short-lived wonder that makes citizen unhappy but gives them an advantage?)

Small wonder:
Lighthouse – safe sea travel – all civilized nations

Give your comments guys!

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Siwa is actually spelt Siwah it's an oasis of the western desert in Egypt, in Greek called Amonium. It was barely under control of the Ptolemies, IIRC one of the Ptolemaic emperors died in a war with Amonium. Cyrus' tomb was in Pasargadae, the religious capital of the ancient Persian Empire. IIRC the Temple of Artemis in Ephesus was already built. You also might want to rename the Colosseum to the Flavian Amphitheatre. Halicarnassus was in modern Turkey, opposite Rhodes. Persepolis was destroyed in 330BC. Also I hold reservations of the name 'Hellenistic Academy' in Athens. It would either have to be 'Hellenic Academy' (which would mean a less great effect) or to be moved to another city IMO.

 

[mitsho]

I just do what I can and asterix is the best comic ever drawn... (hmm, I think I have many (or nearly all?) of them somewhere in the house.

bbtt (but back to topic)

If you want to have to persone cult in, you could also rename the hellenistic academy into Aristoteles Academy, or simply Academy of Athens.

Then a small idea, greece and the phoenician states should both be able to produce a thing like colonisation, shouldn't they? And you won't allow settler, am I right?

mfG mitsho

 

[pinktilapia]

I am just back from a extra day of holiday. Queen's Birthday that's it. But it was wisely spent working on this mod. Thanks Mongoloid Cow (damn, with pinktilapias, we have some seriously challenged animals around here) and thanks again mitsho, I think we have now all the wonders we need although we shall confirm their names and effects. Some questions:

Renaming the Colosseum to the Flavian Amphitheatre. Ok I see the point, after we speak about the whole buidling, not just the statue, right? But, was it an amphitheater? Isn't the coliseum round? I thought amphitheater were half a circle
For Persepolis, I had in mind Big Alex has passed through and the riches of the palace had been gently redistributed, but still Persepolis continued ahead into history and Persia was to remain rich, maybe should we get another wonder to reflect that?

Ok, now the big part
That folks, is a full day of work. I will post pictures of it in the next post.
Without comments, all of it is useless, I won't start modding unless I feel people are willing to play it (and helping in the assembling, BTW)

The file in Word format:

 

[pinktilapia]

EDITED 19/08/04
Pictures are now posted below

Map on page 1 has been updated

 

[pinktilapia]

That's weekend coming up now . I won't have a chance to come online before Monday in my piece of jungle, so keep the comments flowing all along and tell me what you think about all that stuff above.

And if someone want to help in selecting/creating/assembling graphics for all these units/buildings/tech/etc., oh you are so much welcome !!!

 

[pinktilapia]

No feedback folks?
Lack of interest or just that nobody read these pages?
Last WE, I have spent some time putting all these stats and techs into the mod's rules. Actually, what remain is to put the civ on the map (that's the nice part, that I would eagerly do) and the graphics collection work. But it is not worth the work if it just for myself. Let's see

 

[Cimbri]

Hi.

My own pet-project scenario features 31 civilizations cramped on an Indus-to-Europe map, making it an epic game and God-awful indeed. I’m never content with just a few civs, because I simply can’t stop adding things… so I’m perfecting it into infinity.

But I make shake & bake scenarios. For this I use a pre-built template map with cities and a large selection of unit sets, each ‘set’ providing the receiving civ some strengths and weaknesses. But the typical unit set usually includes a primary foot unit, be it a type of legion, warband, or hoplite, usually with a 4- or 5-attack value. Then an auxilla unit with 1a2d, then a psiloi with 1a1d perhaps 1-no-range-bombard. Horsemen 2a1d, Cavalry 3a2d, some also have Heavy Cavalry or 'knights' 4 or 5a2d. Some sets, like Scythians, Sarmatians and Parthians have an emphasis on cheap and easily available horseback units, while the early Roman set focuses on infantry.



To avoid an overcrowded map, I initially decided that no one could build new settlers, but I realized that this is not the best solution. Besides it is fun to set up new colonies. So I took a different approach and made a sacrifice.

All forest has been renamed city-site and the graphics have been replaced with a little “vacant spot sign”. This means that my scenario does not feature pine forest (sadly) or jungle (which I turned into forest). But it also means that I could make city sites on both grassland and plains, pure eye-candy.


Civilization also have 'templates', for instance the Numidians. They start with these two techs: Tribal kingdom (grants them the government of the same name, thus they stick to this government throughout the game) and Tribal Civilization (grants them several tribal improvements, like Tribal Tavern, Tribal Market, etc), they are also flavoured Tribal & Nomad, causing them to favour more nomad improvements in the tribal category.

But this whole template of mine, not to mention the changes in gameplay is only really a good solution for short scenarios perhaps focusing on a single conflict.

But if you need any help, you just let me know.


Oh, and I can give you everything I have. You can then dissect it at your pleasure and use it for whatever you like. I have city lists for most tribes, by the way, I name my tribes for instance ‘The Cherusci’ instead of just ‘Cherusci’, and I’ve change it so the military advisor says ‘conquered’ instead of ‘captured’. I thought it sounded silly when he claimed we had ‘captured the Boii’, now whenever we nick the Celtic city of ‘the Boii’ he says we have ‘conquered the Boii’. Atheistically pleasing.







...If only Civ 3 featured ‘Events’...

 

[mitsho]

I'm sorrry, I have looked at it, and read it, and I have some things I want to say, but honestly, this weekend I hadn't had a minute for myself. And So it is now. I'll respond to you when I have time later on this day or tomorrow.

mitsho

 

[pinktilapia]

@ Cimbri

Thanks for passing by! I had read some of your ideas in a post I dug out on the forum. I would be glad to take a look at your mod ! Since I want to come out with a playable alpha of the game quickly to stimulate the crowd, I bet lot of it could help, with proper credit of course. I do not have such a rich variety of units and your project could come handy!

I do not think I will let any civ build settlers, I want to keep the map relatively wild in some areas. At least the Roman, maybe others, would get a settler-spawning wonder. On the other hand, I could follow your lead and make foundation of cities on forests/hills impossible. Since the map outside the Mediterranean bassin will be mostly forested, that could somewhat control the number and location of cities. Also, to keep the game playable, no way to have as many civ, although I have already seen many change to carry on on the list I posted before.

Let me know where I can find your project

 

[pinktilapia]

I'm sorrry, I have looked at it, and read it, and I have some things I want to say, but honestly, this weekend I hadn't had a minute for myself. And So it is now. I'll respond to you when I have time later on this day or tomorrow.

mitsho

Arrr, I am too impatient, I know

 

[pinktilapia]

I will be adding in the units next weekend and then start working on the map itself. Meanwhile I would greatly appreciate comments on the tech trees and units. Ach, come, you lazy pumpkins

Otherwise, I guess, at least this thread will have been useful completing the wonders and especially forcing me to put my ideas down on paper... groucho

 

[pinktilapia]

Tech Trees for Non-Roman Civilizations

Note: In these trees, grey advances are classified as belonging to no era (thus non researchable, non-tradable) and are given to the relevant civilization as the game start. A civilization can only research advances branching from the gray prerequisites it knows. The Forever Advance is researchable by all, mostly for the IA once one civilization knows all its possible advances. It is a kind of 'future tech' (see good old civ2) which no one is likely to complete.

 

[pinktilapia]

Tech Tree for Rome

Note: This tree is actually divided into 4 ages, since it can fit in a window as such.

Age 1 = The Rise of the Republic
Age 2 = The Imperial Apogee
Age 3 = The Fall of the Empire
Age 4 = The Byzantine Legacy

 

[pinktilapia]

Great and Small Wonders

Note: The assumption for the wonders is that small wonders can’t be captured since they disappear when the city is taken: am I right?

 

[pinktilapia]

Improvements

 

[pinktilapia]

Units

Note: There are few unit lines
Infantry (good attack)
Defender (useless in attack, can be immobile)
Cavalry (strong and fast attacker with low HP and usually expensive)
Archer (weak and cheap attacker with defensive bombard)
Artillery (only Roman, since anyway, the IA won't know what to do with them)

Move (1) = immobile
HN = hidden nationality