Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

This text is from a internet site and gives you a good overlook at them :) But it's not necessary to read it :)
The Mysterious Nabateans

Before Alexander’s conquest, a thriving new civilization had emerged in southern Jordan. It appears that a nomadic tribe known as the Nabateans began migrating gradually from Arabia during the sixth century BCE. Over time, they abandoned their nomadic ways and settled in a number of places in southern Jordan, the Naqab desert in Palestine, and in northern Arabia. Their capital city was the legendary Petra, Jordan’s most famous tourist attraction. Although Petra was inhabited by the Edomites before the arrival of the Nabateans, the latter carved grandiose buildings, temples and tombs out of solid sandstone rock. They also constructed a wall to fortify the city, although Petra was almost naturally defended by the surrounding sandstone mountains. Building an empire in the arid desert also forced the Nabateans to excel in water conservation. They were highly skilled water engineers, and irrigated their land with an extensive system of dams, canals and reservoirs.

The Nabateans were exceptionally skilled traders, facilitating commerce between China, India, the Far East, Egypt, Syria, Greece and Rome. They dealt in such goods as spices, incense, gold, animals, iron, copper, sugar, medicines, ivory, perfumes and fabrics, just to name a few. From its origins as a fortress city, Petra became a wealthy commercial crossroads between the Arabian, Assyrian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman cultures. Control of this crucial trade route between the upland areas of Jordan, the Red Sea, Damascus and southern Arabia was the lifeblood of the Nabatean Empire.
We still know comparatively little about Nabatean society. However, we do know that they spoke a dialect of Arabic and later on adopted Aramaic. Much of what is now known about Nabatean culture comes from the writings of the Roman scholar Strabo. He recorded that their community was governed by a royal family, although a strong spirit of democracy prevailed. According to him there were no slaves in Nabatean society, and all members shared in work duties. The Nabateans worshipped a pantheon of deities, chief among which were the sun god Dushara and the goddess Allat.

As the Nabateans grew in power and wealth, they attracted the attention of their neighbors to the north. The Seleucid King Antigonus, who had come to power when Alexander’s empire was divided, attacked Petra in 312 BCE. His army met with relatively little resistance, and was able to sack the city. The quantity of booty was so great, however, that it slowed their return journey north and the Nabateans were able to annihilate them in the desert. Records indicate that the Nabateans were eager to remain on good terms with the Seleucids in order to perpetuate their trading ambitions. Throughout much of the third century BCE, the Ptolemies and Seleucids warred over control of Jordan, with the Seleucids emerging victorious in 198 BCE. Nabatea remained essentially untouched and independent throughout this period.

Although the Nabateans resisted military conquest, the Hellenistic culture of their neighbors influenced them greatly. Hellenistic influences can be seen in Nabatean art and architecture, especially at the time that their empire was expanding northward into Syria, around 150 BCE. However, the growing economic and political power of the Nabateans began to worry the Romans. In 65 BCE, the Romans arrived in Damascus and ordered the Nabateans to withdraw their forces. Two years later, Pompey dispatched a force to cripple Petra. The Nabatean King Aretas III either defeated the Roman legions or paid a tribute to keep peace with them.

The assassination of Julius Caesar in 44 BCE augured a period of relative anarchy for the Romans in Jordan, and the Parthian kings of Persia and Mesopotamia took advantage of the chaotic situation to attack. The Nabateans made a mistake by siding with the Parthians in their war with the Romans, and after the Parthians’ defeat, Petra had to pay tribute to Rome. When they fell behind in paying this tribute, they were invaded twice by the Roman vassal King Herod the Great. The second attack, in 31 BCE, saw him take control of a large swath of Nabatean territory, including the lucrative northern trading routes into Syria.

Nonetheless, the Nabateans continued to prosper for a while. King Aretas IV, who ruled from 9 BCE to 40 CE, built a chain of settlements along the caravan routes to develop the prosperous incense trade. The Nabateans realized the power of Rome, and subsequently allied themselves with the Romans to quell the Jewish uprising of 70 CE. However, it was only a matter of time before Nabatea would fall under direct Roman rule. The last Nabatean monarch, Rabbel II, struck a deal with the Romans that as long as they did not attack during his lifetime, they would be allowed to move in after he died. Upon his death in 106 CE, the Romans claimed the Nabatean Kingdom and renamed it Arabia Petrea. The city of Petra was redesigned according to traditional Roman architectural designs, and a period of relative prosperity ensued under the Pax Romana.


The Nabateans profited for a while from their incorporation into the trade routes of the Roman Near East, and Petra may have grown to house 20,000-30,000 people during its heyday. However, commerce became less profitable to the Nabateans with the shift of trade routes to Palmyra in Syria and the expansion of seaborne trade around the Arabian peninsula. Sometime probably during the fourth century CE, the Nabateans left their capital at Petra. No one really knows why. It seems that the withdrawal was an unhurried and organized process, as very few silver coins or valuable possessions have been unearthed at Petra.

As for your questions: Give them at least two cities (depending on map size), and as much naval power in the red sea as you give to the Ptolomeans (not more or less... :)). That's my advice... (they should be easy to sack but so rich that they could buy anyone in against the enemy)

mfG mitsho
 
Google is so good :) I have little time to work on this mod outside weekends, but Petra and another city (an harbor on the red sea) will be added, even if only for the flavor.

While placing the Germanic tribes, I realized that I need to add even one more civ to keep their size in match. That should be the Thracians (which includes Dacia). I am afraid I am progressively making the mod implayable for the smaller configurations.

Although I (have come to) know one has to carry his mod by himself, I put a task list down there. It is "check and pick", anyone willing to help, PM me! Once these are done, we have the alpha!

- Graphics and pediaicons (I will start working on that next WE)
- Civilopedia entries (someone!)
- Design of tech tree with proper position and arrows on the scientific advisor's screen (Coltrane? Anyone with experience doing that?)
 
Hello.

This scenario seems to start very well.
Just a fews comments:

1) Don't give the Celt any Settlers units, this will prevent them settling on scotland and germany.

2) The Nabateans do not have any naval activivties (thus they owned a port near gaza for a short time). I'm not sure they owned a port on red sea.

3) If you have a good dsl connexion I suggest you to download my old Great Lost Civilizations mod (Thread Here ) for ptw, it's focused on the ancient times and it has many wonders (like Ishtar's Gate, Trajan's Column, Caracalla's Terms,...) as well as specialy made city graphics for Egyptian, Hellenistic, Phoenicians and units. You might find some stuffs or ideas there. Beware it's 104Mb...

4) If you're in needs of something, ask me.
 
mitsho said:
It looks nice, it certainly could be done this way :). But I'd certainly split the Celts up, at the moment, they are huge.... And huge means in civ3-terms, unbeatable (if you have no solution against this!). But you've already said this. And it looks for me that the celts have either many many cities (which makes them hard to beat) or much culture (more than Rome) which makes them hard to conquer. Isn't it this way?

That's everything I can say at the moment.

mitsho

EDIT: One more idea: the Nabateans. When does the game exactly start? 300 BC or later? (too lazy to look it up) Why not add them in? And make them (incredibly) rich by giving them a small wonder (requires middle east resource...), that after Petra is destroyed can be built by Palmyra? (and btw. Is this city included, that's my favourite.... :))

I have to agree on this. Historicly Ceasar conquered the celt not by slowly invading celtic teritory but by systematicly conquering trybes they did not cooperate with roman law and by buying allies in rivaling celtic tribes like the Remi.
 
pinktilapia said:
While placing the Germanic tribes, I realized that I need to add even one more civ to keep their size in match. That should be the Thracians (which includes Dacia). I am afraid I am progressively making the mod implayable for the smaller configurations.

:lol:

I know how that ends. My scenarios got out of hand. It is a map based on the world just at the start of the First Punic War. Suddenly I began adding civs, lots of civs.

To increase the difficulty:

Rome only have a few cities, most Italian cities belong to the civ “Socii Populi Romani” in locked alliance with Rome. Syracuse was also represented in the beginning, but she was eventually removed as an independent state and converted into another civ.

Carthage also has such an ally state. Numidia, like in your map, she is represented as an independent nation, though in locked alliance with Carthage.

Then there are a ton of Greek fractions, everything from Epirus, Sparta, the Achaean League, the Aetolian League, Aegean Greeks (the Greek islands in the Aegean sea), Western Greeks (Italy and southern France), Black Sea Greeks (Guess where), Bosphoran Kingdom, then three Successor Kingdoms, and a bunch of independent Anatolian states.

Then we have the barbarians, Thracians, the Getae (who also occupies Dacia at this point), Sarmatians, Germanics, three Celtic factions, Celt-Iberians, Iberians, Illyrians… ack… no Britons, though.

In the end I had to remove most of northern Gaul, then I removed the Germans (they weren’t really as important back then) and converted them to a new Celtic faction.

A shame you cant do the same, eh? :p
 
If you see at the end that it's not playable you can always kick the nabataeans out, they don't need much work to be done, do they?

mfG mitsho
 
LBPB! Your city graphics are simply amazing! Pink, there is no way we can do without these graphics, Rome/carthage and the middle east can have new graphics (sadly there arent enough spots for city graphics for egypt i think, though who knows how it will end.) so i say, rome/carthage is covered, middle east is covered, hellenistic is covered i think, so its just the barbarians and nomads that need graphics.
 
Hi,

No one has settler but Rome, and that's just a few generated by a wonder (currently poorly called Capitol) to replace cities which have been razed or possibly colonize a few empty lands. The maps posted above are unfinished work yet, Scotland, Ireland, Germany, the Steppes and the Deserts will be populated. Actually, they were be little scope for new cities. I still can load the game in about 5 min, and it is nearly as complex as it will be, so hopefully, it is not (yet) out of hand :)

I have finally found a map showing the approximate position of Nabateans, something like the pic below. Having no timber, they will only be able to build biremes and coracles from their southern harbor. They will have few land units to build (garrison, archers, and camel riders). I won't kick them out, not unless the game crawls like a frozen sick snail on a glued surface.

@LBPB, I would download your mod, it looks great and I wonder how I miss it, but my connection is not that good. Is there any thread having the graphics (pedia entries!) downloadable separately? Otherwise, I will stay overnight and download the whole pack ;)

If you're in needs of something, ask me.

I do, I do!!! Check the list above and pick one! But surely your mod will be of great help anyway, if only for some pedia data, so thanks.

@Cimbri

A shame you cant do the same, eh?

:eek: No! Don't give me this kind of ideas or I will follow you into damnation and embark into a never finished mod forever. From now on, no more civ, it is a promise :D ! Locked alliance... this is a perpetual (and static) state of war, I feel not suitable for a mod spread over 700 years... I rather have peace periods there and there. I am not afraid about the challenge (it won't be easy at all for our poor Roman friend, especially at start and at the end of the campaing), although I am doubtful how far I will be able to simulate the great invasions and the Fall of Rome quickly enough (I will mostly use HN units, with great stats and small costs, hoping this will push the invaders across Roman lands like plague)

@Fanatic Demon

Historicly Ceasar conquered the celt not by slowly invading celtic teritory but by systematicly conquering trybes they did not cooperate with roman law and by buying allies in rivaling celtic tribes like the Remi.

Ok, let's wait for the alpha and see. If the Celts/others have too many cities for a relatively quick conquest (which nonetheless will never be as quick as it has been in the reality, unless we limit the Gauls at 2-3 cities :ack: ), then I will remove some. For now, I prefer having enough cities to give a complete 'cultural cover' to the territory the tribes historically occupied.

@ Coltrane

LBPB! Your city graphics are simply amazing!

Aye! I must find these graphics and think again on the cultural group we will have!!

EDITED

@ LBPB

Just looked at your thread. I can't stand waiting. I download, even it is must block the internet access to all my colleagues for a whole working day. Feeling guilty... ;)
 

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King Coltrane said:
LBPB! Your city graphics are simply amazing!
Thanks :xmas:


pinktilapia said:
I would download your mod, it looks great and I wonder how I miss it, but my connection is not that good. Is there any thread having the graphics (pedia entries!) downloadable separately? Otherwise, I will stay overnight and download the whole pack
I'm affraid only the cities graphics are available to download in a separated thread, just browse the graphic forum :crazyeye:
ps: Check out my sign, there's a link to the GLC threads presenting large parts of my own graphic work on this mod (look at the previews sub forum).


pinktilapia said:
Just looked at your thread. I can't stand waiting. I download, even it is must block the internet access to all my colleagues for a whole working day. Feeling guilty...
:lol: No, I'm not feeling this guilty...
 
Back to the office report after this short weekend:

- I have downloaded LBPB's mod. Lots of good things there :goodjob:
- map finished :); loading time about 6 min. on P4-2.4 Ghz 256RAM
- unit's graphics 33% finished
- a problem, but I expect I have found the solution, although I still have to test it. Most of the units do not appear in the build list of the cities, although all requirements have been fullfilled. I hope the cause to this is that the related advances are set as 'no era' and that units linked to such advance can't be built (at least by the human player).

EDITED

Yes, that was the cause to my trouble. Things works now :)

Anyone to write/collect civilopedia entries for buildings & units? Contact me to get the latest listings!
 
King Coltrane said:
i love the element in your mod, LBPB, of the wonders as resources... thats brilliant!
Thx

pinktilapia said:
- I have downloaded LBPB's mod. Lots of good things there :goodjob:
Thanks, I'm currently working on the next version of my mod :crazyeye:

pinktilapia said:
- map finished :); loading time about 6 min. on P4-2.4 Ghz 256RAM
Could you post a preview of the minimap ? :mischief:
 
Pinktilapia, I just want to let you know, that this seems to be a very ambitious project. Keep up your good work, even if you have to rely on yourself for the biggest part of it. I'm not good in doing anything like graphics, but I could help playtesting.
 
This mod seems like it'll be a good one. I'm a sucker for anything to do with rome.

Wish I could help but I really don't know how to do anything mod-like. Maybe I could help a little with writing civpedia entries, not the programming stuff though.

Good luck on the development!
 
Hi Gunner,

Sure go ahead if you want to! As soon as you confirm, I can send you some updated listings for buidlings/units. Anyway, I will post these anytime soon. It would be great if you could write entries and share them in this thread!

Attached, the minimap as it is now, with all cities appearing. It is a bit confused around Greece, where many 1 city nations coexists...
 

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That weekend was :suicide:
Never, oh never, I want to do that again, I PRTO_dream_of_it

Here we go, units finished, they just miss the civopedia entries :)


Preview 1
LAND UNITS
 

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UNITS REFERENCE SHEETS
ILLUSTRATED!
CONTRIBUTE! WRITE CIVOPEDIA ENTRIES!

UPDATED
 

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Simply beautiful! Pinktilapia, you've done a great job! My English isn't very good, but I will see, what I can do with the civilopedia entries ...
 
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