River or Mountain for the Capital?

[isau]

I often find myself asking this question. When settling a capital, which is more important: next to a river, or next to a mountain, assuming all else is equal?

I guess we could further break this down:
- Next to a river
- Next to a mountain, no river nearby
- Next to a mountain, at least 1 tile from river, but within city radius

Clearly being near a river is always a good idea, but is it worth settling next to the mountain if the river is still within city radius?

 

[erhaminus]

I prefer mountain to river.

+50% science in capital coming with Observatory (i.e. in usually one of the largest city) is huge imho.

Moreover, there are some fair wonders that require mountain nearby too.

 

[Vitruvius]

Depends. Rivers are good for guilds. But its usually not wise to run guilds in cap because it is usually the science city and you want it to have as high a pop as possible.

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[dinanipedro]

ill prefer hill/river for capital but if persueing a fast SV, and mountain 1 turn away mountain it is.

 

[Enonwnn]

If I can get a mountain within at least my second ring, I'd be happy. Never underestimate the power of Machu Picchu, a wonder which is far more powerful than having an observatory in your capital. However, if there are a *lot* of riverside tiles within the workable radius, I'd make sure I settle next to the river. The Hydro Plant may be invaluable in later game when it comes to winning Worlds Fair, etc and building spaceship parts. I feel this is more important than being directly next to a mountain.

After all, most of my satellite cities will be adjacent to mountains given I'm not in a flat area.

 

[Justice1337]

Mountain is more important. I strongly prefer building the National College early on in the Capital, and I always want it in a city with an Observatory so I can plant Academies.

The Garden and the Trade Route income are not as important, imo, because I want a Coastal city for those. Best case, I've got a Coastal start bias and hit a Mountain too, but otherwise, the coastal city is my second. Most if not all of my trade units are Ships , then I build all my Artist Guilds and Hermitage there. National Epic can go in either city, depending on my VC, but not having a Garden has never busted my Scientist generation. Having an Observatory with multiple Academies though is a sure way to win.

 

[comatosedragon]

Depends. Rivers are good for guilds. But its usually not wise to run guilds in cap because it is usually the science city and you want it to have as high a pop as possible.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand this at all. How do rivers affect guilds? And isn't placing guilds in the capitol the 'norm'? It seems to me that the culture multipliers would benefit far more in the cap than in satellite cities. [Though I do see your point about working a guild specialist as opposed to a food tile]

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

Rivers give food which means more specialists worked. Gardens are needed for artists because you need a lot of them when playing culture (you only need a couple of the rest). When food is scarce, it's better to split your guilds over to be able to keep growing and keep up production.

 

[Gamewizard]

I'm sorry, I just don't understand this at all. How do rivers affect guilds? And isn't placing guilds in the capitol the 'norm'? It seems to me that the culture multipliers would benefit far more in the cap than in satellite cities. [Though I do see your point about working a guild specialist as opposed to a food tile]

Rivers give more food from early farms and you can build the garden.

And the only culture modifiers in the game are Hermitage and Broadcast Tower, unless I am mistaken. Sistine Chapel affects all your cities. So really you want all your guilds and Hermitage in the same city, capital or not doesn't really matter.

If your capital isn't a riverside food heavy start, I would go look for one and make that city the guilds, national epic, hermitage city.

 

[Laurwin]

Rivers give more food from early farms and you can build the garden.

And the only culture modifiers in the game are Hermitage and Broadcast Tower, unless I am mistaken. Sistine Chapel affects all your cities. So really you want all your guilds and Hermitage in the same city, capital or not doesn't really matter.

If your capital isn't a riverside food heavy start, I would go look for one and make that city the guilds, national epic, hermitage city.

You forgot the world wonder Alhambra (chivalry), it gives drill I promotion, and +20% culture in the city.

 

[Gamewizard]

You forgot the world wonder Alhambra (chivalry), it gives drill I promotion, and +20% culture in the city.

Oh yeah, my bad. I don't think I've ever built it because the AI beelines it.

 

[ravenmagus]

You don't have to be ON a river to plant farms by a nearby river... but Water Wheel and Garden (and extra gold on land trades) are pretty important IMO.

 

[Monthar]

If you're able to build the Hanging Gardens or are playing Indonesia you can still have a garden even if the capital is not next to a fresh water source. The only buildings that specifically require being next to the river are the water wheel and hydro plant. Gardens just require being next to a fresh water source whether it is a river or a lake.

You can always put the guilds in a different city, just be sure you have the national epic in the city with the guilds to get the most GWAMs.

Settling the mountain for the observatory with a river or lake only 1 tile away will allow you to have at least 1 more farm that's boosted by civil service. Yes, your land trade routes at the capital will have less gold, but any science from trade routes will be unchanged. You can always have the outgoing trade route leave one of your other cities for the river bonus.

Since science is king no matter what victory your going for the observatory is better. The exception is if you're going for a domination victory on a Pangaea map and can complete the victory early enough that you won't get much out of the observatory if you are even able to build it before winning.

 

[joncnunn]

I'd much prefer on the river. The Water Mill is a second granary (plus a small amount of additional production).
And the gardens will boost Great Scientist generation rate (and all others)

 

[klaskeren]

Going for a fast victory, i think every good player would take mountain, but it depends a little on the terrain i guess

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

It really depends on the surrounding terrain. How long a river? Is it a lonely mountain or a huge blob that takes up a significant portion of the workable radius? Is there food near the mountain? How much production near the river? I'd pick the river all other things being equal.

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[Laurwin]

Good thing to remember for you guys, certain natural wonders CAN provide mountain for observatory's purposes in a city.

E.g. kilimanjaro provides mountain for observatory

always settle adjacent to these natural wonders if you can find them AND the land is at least workable. (unless you have another single tile mountain, which allows for also, riverline location adjacent to the mountain, but let's be honeest here, this never happens, mountains usually are blobs of mountains! )

 

[Illinus]

As long as I found the city on a hill, I'll take either one.

 

[TeriXeri]

It all depends on the start location, I once expanded next to kilimanjaro+grassland+river and made that my science city instead (king difficulty so you can get away with a less perfect start). No other mountains nearby for like 50+ tiles, on a large map.

 

[Memoryjar]

Mountain but if I can have 3 tiles with 4 food. I'll go for 3 cities.
Below, it hurts capital growth, specially due to Academies. Except for Incas.
Without such food, I plant it near river. And look for a 4th city room.