Role PLay Challenge: Chairman Mao's Revised Plan

MMMMMm nice juicy lands to spread the doctrine of Mao. And do my eyes deceive me? or did Mad build a cottage. he DID, praise marx. J/K you're playing a great game. LOL, but as usual I have to toss my 2cents in. LOL, most games my 2 cents actually makes up half your commerce.
You can get the same production in Beijing if you work the grassland cows instead of the grassland forest. But you don't starve the population down. Just click avoid growth so that you can be right there ready to pop to size six when you get more happiness.
Which brings us to the workers in the rice near Guangzhou and mining near Nanjing. Move atleast one of them to the junglewgrasslandgems near nanjing. By the time workerA has finished the farm, guangzhou will be at the happy cap and not need the rice. And the gems will be a welcome boost your economy. But most importantly the happy cap goes up by one.
I absolutely LOVE the city site in the middle of the bananas/jumbos/dye. It screams commerce city in big fat chinese letters. Though i would farm anything touching that mountain peak. Late game volcanos eat up towns down to the bare grass.
I would move archer guy 1w for the iron city. It gives you both clams and the iron. With the 2 clams and the iron. You also gain the ability to build a lighthouse and harbor. Which are good because you have no fresh water. the two clams provide +6:food: which is exactly what you will need to work the 5 hills and the iron. That is a whole buncha production for a size 8 city. PLUS you can work 9 water total with the Maoa statues. By settling where the archer is now, you make the watertiles dead weight.
I would settle one more city 4 tiles south of the bananas, 1w of the cows. Great production city. And you will want one down there to deal with willy/surry. Marching troops all the way from shanghai will be annoying and dangerous if you need them fast. Also it has more potential than Shanghai. It is on a river for a levee and has a lot of riverside tiles to benefit from it. It has more food potential than shanghai. Pre biology you can only work 4-5 hammer tiles in Shanghai. The southern city can work pretty much everything because of higher food and the ability to run watermills all over.
I would chop whip all three settlers as soon as possible. settling elephant/banana first and then southern city. Backfill the coastal city.
Teching monarchy would be a good thing. At somepoint get those Once you start towards literature, grab drama along the way. Get those pavillions up and running. Without religious buildings you are going to get a cultural smackdown put on your cities. Does the sistine chapel count as a religious building? It doesn't generate priest points or require a religion for the specialists culture boost.
You have room to rex. Build the economy back up and Mao will be a powerhouse. He will also have a military production city on all three borders. Shanghai for troops against just, coastal maoao city for dealing ith surry ans southern city for dealing with will. Cottage the heck out of Beijing and the other cities. Honestly If you can get the coastal city and the dye/jumbo/banana city you really don't need to worry about war until maces and Chokonu. The southern city would be a huge bonus.




Originally Posted by BalbanesBeoulve
I prefer to axe rush suryaman asap. He's annoying as hell, better to get him out of the way early.
A. Axe rushes are what doomed alex 1&2 as well as mao1.
b. It is extremely difficult to axe rush WITHOUT COPPER. And a little late when you get iron.
 
Oh and one last note...you're expansive.....build a buttload of workers
 
Thanks for all the good advice. We have alot of cottabable grasslands so 2 more cities are easy to keepup, and probably a third. I like the coastal west of the archer, and you are all right it will capture the 2 clams and iron. I will decide on the river city by tonight. The third city will take some thought, as it will cost alot and we cannot tech CoL until the religion is founded.

Regarding rushed and the recent RPCs. Yes it did in Mao I, But AL 1 and 2 were more a result of poor settings, always war was rediculus and Al 2 was emperor difficulty with RPC rules.

Finally, I am thinking we need to get really big and mean before war as we may be looking at taking 2 or 3 AIs on at once. And you have to consider what world opinion will be once I raze Justinian's holy Judaist city, and he may have the christian holy city too :eek:
 
True you need to wait for CoL to teched by the ai first but with your land available you can easily support one more city. You want to get it settled before someone else takes the good spots. Those two gem mines can basically pay for the extra city. And you can always tech currency. Having one city build wealth in addition to the extra trade routes can keep you healthy until you can get CoL. Which you can probably trade for. Currency is a valuable tech.
 
Yes, one thing I almost always forget, the option to build wealth!
 
Looks like a more controlled start to this version - not as action-packed but a more solid foundation to be sure.

Just don't forget Mao's 4th plan in terms of espionage. You should be getting a Great Spy from the Wall, and I find it best to infiltrate early when the techs are cheaper and expansion forces you to cut back on the slider (as opposed to settling). As with the last game, Willem looks to be the best candidate in terms of raw techs to obtain, but do keep in mind the distance aspect. You can probably do what needs to be done with one of your closer neighbors - and that's simply to pick off some key techs to stay in the hunt. You may wish to gauge the tech situation now and start applying spy points to your intended victim in a higher proportion now. You can likely get more from closer neighbors, but there is the possibility of being able to steal fewer but more unique techs from Willem and then use them for trade.....

This would be a key reason to move toward Alphabet - though I've had luck with the Aesthetics suggestion as well whereby you use the latter tech to get yourself Alpha and possibly a few others as the AI seems not to prioritize Aesthetics as much.
 
If you decide to waste, I mean use, your great spy on an infiltration mission. I would save him until you have a better idea of who your first war casualties are likely to be. No sense burning those ep's and then losing the espionage cost reduction when you eliminate that civ. You have great land for developing your own research base. An early Great spy is best settled. Especially at marathon speed. That is a LOT of EP's over the course of a game. And that is even before building modifiers. I can usually settle one GS then scotland yard the second...that takes care of my EP's for the rest of the game. Marathon speed means games that last many many many many turns. it takes over 900 turns just to get to 1900AD. We will be on turn 277 when the great sneak pops out. That means by 1900AD we will have 7476 EP's from the great spy. And that is without any building modifiers. Plus the 1869 beakers. Again that is without building modifiers. The question is, do we want a steady supply of EP's or do we need a quick fix? I reccommend waiting to see how things develop. If the AI go in different tech directions, I say settle the spy and spread the pain to them all. If they seem to play follow the leader then infiltrate and steal everything.
 
OK, preparing to post the next segment. Going rather dull right now although I am pretty certain things will liven up in the next segment/ Whether that's good or bad for old Mao is uncertain.
 
Chairman Mao's Reised Plan: Part III

OK, I gotta say this segment dull as S#$t, you know what I mean. VERY slow teching, falling behind, building needed infrastructure. Being a good isolationist with limited happiness. However we made some very nice use of the espionage game, and finally yeched off monarchy at the end to allow us to grow our cities. But there is some very interesting diplomacy and AI action this segment which I think will be setting the tone for later. But to the game.

Settling, Settled two cities very quickly



Forming a nice baracade. Note the Dutch HA, well he settled that area soon also, sorry CivCorpse, no third city down there, but we did settle one more coastal city just off of Bejing.

We popped our Great Spy



Which we settled. Sorry guys,m but my experience tells me to get those eps all game long!

As mentioned in other posts, that gem city is key in keeping the Chinese economy afloat



We also built a market there to help

I should mention the tech path: writing/sailing/math/currency/construction/aesthetics/literature/monarchy.

And of course once we teched off literature and spent a few turnsd on the great library it get's built overseas. Well, we actually almost have the SoZ built which may keep some of these AIs off our back later.

Now, ep distribution



I let it even out most of the time, but now started shifting it to the tech leader, however I do have enough ep to steal some of the cheaper religious techs.

Because as you see, we need some help on the tech aspect



Sury comes by with a nice trade



Yes we want spies, thankyou very much. I'll be sending a few your way with my personal gratitude.

Justinina made a demand for gems which we gave into. Mao will bide his time.

Now we can start leveraging that Great Settled Spy.



Followed by



The off in Byzantine lands



Which we used to trade for



Unfortunately, Sury demanded CoL just before this trade which we gave into. Stupid mistake I should have made a trade anticipating this request.

Back to the ep screen, looking to send a spy into Khmer next





Thankyou Suryman.

I was worried about the Judaist holy block against us, especially Sury who will always eventually war, but soon



Greta, all that trading must have led him to declare on Justinian. My experience with both is that they are stubborn fighters and will generally not cave in. Sury took two periferal Byzantine cities, so we need to make sure he does not get carries away.

We save up our eps and hit Sury again



OK, who's counting? HBR/Polytheism/Meditation/calendar all through espionage. And I promise more to come in future segments.

After teching monarchy after revolting to HR.

The landscape





OK, not too bad on culture pressure but our UB will help which we are teching for now.

We need to rebuild the eps, but we have a GP due in ten turns and I hope it's a Spy.

Diplomacy, all are cautious which is as good as we can expect



And techs



Not so good. However I am hoping to get a few more in espionage, particularly MC for machinery and the UU.

SO how are we doing this game??

Willem is a real tech threat while Sury is a major military threat and Justian is no slouch. I say staying small and isolated is the best strat for now. By the way Will converted to Confusianism so that whould shake things up a bit.

We are building war elephants every chance we get. Note I see Byzantine Pikes arround so the tech is worse than it looks.
 
Looking good Mad. Only advice I have is more workers. They're cheap for Mao and you need to get that jungle cleared and those wineries and plantations build asap. I would consider gathering all your troops for an assault on Nicomedia. It will alleviate some cultural pressure and hopefully that is Justinian's only source of iron. best take away his iron before he gets Cataphracts. They are bad juju. MORE WORKERS. If you plan on cottaging Beijing, i would stop running a scientist and use the citizen to work a cottage. Not the cottage 1e of the rice. You need to farm that as soon as you get civil service so it spreads irrigation to the rice for more :food: Tech path should be metalcasting/machinery while stealing Civil Service. Cho-ko-nu spam.
 
Chairman Mao's Revised Paln: Part IV

OK, we are stabilizing very nicely. 2 parts of Mao's plan in effect, Atheism to the max and a stronge espionage game. Now we need the maximum population and the State Property thing. Wow, we still have work to do.

OK, first thing is the techpath

Drama/Machinery/CS/paper/Phil/Education. What, going for the liberalism beeline while being that far behinf in tech, he's MAD. Perhaps and perhaps not.

First the Next GP



Yes, the Great Spy. We built Scotland Yard in the capital. And we plan to beeline Communism next, for the free GS and first carck at the Kremlin to be built in Bejing. But that's a long way off (Sort of like arguing an espionage game before settling teh first city!)

We malke a nice trade with Sury



Which opens up Machinery for the UU.

We then use a Spy to steal this from Willem



And we immediately readjusted eps towards Justinian.

And after a few turns into CS we get this trade



Giving Sury and us Maces. Sury eventually get's peace with Justinian. We are no way interested in wars here. We are spamming out no-chuks (whateverthename) in all cities.

And with all the cottages in Bejing we get a nice boost here



And we steal this from Justinian



And build caravels to explore the world!!!!

That clams/iron coastal city is turning into a monster production city, with all the hills and the Maori statues. We also built the NE in Bejing which is working as a weak GP farm, but enough for our needs.

We get another step towards liberalism



Let Willy have his UU, it's no threat to us.

We also got one of the better random events we could get



Free combat promotions to all UU's that already get free CG I and Drill I! Those babies can work through rifling!!!

And our caravel started meeting the last three Ais



OK, a religious nut, but not someone who is going to intiate a naval assault across the continent to burn an atheist AI.

And as you can see, he's not exactly too close to Galleons right now, still a nice trade.



Note how I have relied exclusively on Cho-huks for defense here, ignoring Fuedalism do we can pursue the liberalism tech tree.

We then met Wang, one of the easiest AIs to get along with, or at least sone of the least likely to sail an armada at us. A sexpected he is fairly advanced although behind us in the liberalism race.

Andf the last leader



Looks like Old Charlie has been warring with Sal/Wang. Good, let them ruin thier civilization debating religious principals.

By the way, on our continent there is still an uneasy peace. Justinian and Sury remained peaceful while Will built the Swa Paya and revolted to FR, thus alienating himself towards the other two and pleased with us.

And as you can see the world is mostly cautious or pleased with us. No enemies, doing much better than last time.

And we popped another GP, perfect timing a scientists!!! We sued him to finish bulbing education.



And we saved here.



OK, I think we all agree liberalism is next. The only threat is Wang. Perhaps we should run some scientists or even build beakers to speed up the race here. Also which tech do we take for free. Wang already has mationalism so my guess is that he beats us to the Taj even though we have marble. Do we take Atronomy and trade it arround, keeping education and the head start on universities???? Justinian already has that tech by the way. Or Printing Press and head towards rifles (hell, we don't even have guilds yet).

OK, the world



And techs



Music should be easy to steal with a spy, but perhaps waiting and taking something like engineering or guilds?

Also I am thinking gunpowder sooner than later, protective muskets are pretty damned nice. And also there is Justinians Cataraks that are a potential issue. How best to counter them if need be? PIkes and Jumbos I guess.
 
I think you should use the Cho-Ko-Nus for some major ownage. They cause collateral damage, and get CGI/Drill I/Combat I right out of the box. With barracks, theocracy, and vassalage, they should be able to get Drill II/Cover.

I think targeting Justinian would be the best plan here. He probably does not have Guilds (and Caraphracts) yet, but if he does getting some Pikemen would be nice. Its a small front, and you could capitulate him after crushing him into sucky tundra/ice cities. It would earn Suryavarman diplomacy points, probably. Also, his land could become useful...
 
Looks like you should get to Lib first if you go for it. What tech do you plan to take though? I'd probably go for Astro for the overseas trade routes especially as Wan has Nat.

Looks like it is time to expand as well so I would try and bribe someone into war. At a quick glance Sury against Just then once they have burnt a few units attack who you think is best.

looking forward to the next round.
 
I think you should use the Cho-Ko-Nus for some major ownage. They cause collateral damage, and get CGI/Drill I/Combat I right out of the box. With barracks, theocracy, and vassalage, they should be able to get Drill II/Cover.

I think targeting Justinian would be the best plan here. He probably does not have Guilds (and Caraphracts) yet, but if he does getting some Pikemen would be nice. Its a small front, and you could capitulate him after crushing him into sucky tundra/ice cities. It would earn Suryavarman diplomacy points, probably. Also, his land could become useful...

Very tempting excpet for two points.

1) He is basically 1 tech from Cataracs. Also Sury didn't have much luck against him. HHowever, I think Mao is ready fo a dogpile once it pop up agani.

2) We must raze holy cities. He's got several, so there is not that much prime realestate there. Also Sury will be ticked at us for razing the Judaist holy city!

Still, war may be inevtitable. However, a space race win here while maintaining those 4 criteria would be QUITE an achievement!!!
 
Cataphract smattafract. Pilliage the iron in the north of his empire with spies. Then take Nicodemia. it is two steps from your borders. No Iron, no cataphracts. Simple as that. Before you DOW use spies to change surry and willies civics to paganism. That should drop them to cautious with Justanian. Then bribe them into war as well before he does. even if you can't bribe them, you don't get the "you DOW our friend diplo hit" You might consider pilliaging the iron of both of them as well with spies so he can't trade for it. keep pilliaging his northern iron. and watch the skinny geek whine into oblivion.
 
Why is Justinian still alive? He is religious fanatic. Does Mao let religious fanatics live? No, he conquers them (Tibet style) and burns the holy cities. Nice game so far and great cities. Could you post some screenshots from the cities and the diplo screen?
 
We are playing the atheist isolationist right now. If Justinian wants to delude himself with false gods let him. There are enough constraint's for this RPC than having to exterminate the heathens also.

Good point about the iron. I'll see what Sury does and definitely may join the dogpile.

Also Willem is already in Free Religion and pleased with us.
 
Very tempting excpet for two points.

1) He is basically 1 tech from Cataracs. Also Sury didn't have much luck against him. HHowever, I think Mao is ready fo a dogpile once it pop up agani.

2) We must raze holy cities. He's got several, so there is not that much prime realestate there. Also Sury will be ticked at us for razing the Judaist holy city!

Still, war may be inevtitable. However, a space race win here while maintaining those 4 criteria would be QUITE an achievement!!!

Not to mention you turned vassal states off :mischief:. I'd have very much liked taking AI's as vassals, that would have sped things up considerably, not to mention it's fairly easy to get a vassal to convert civics/religions. Maybe too easy, since this is a role play CHALLENGE:lol:.

Diplo situation went very differently for your game than my um...what's it like 5 attempts?

I took some time off from this to run the Noble's club III game and what have you, but this weekend is a whole new weekend. I learned some things elsewhere and from failing at this 039482370698347 times, so I'll give it another go.

You're doing much better than me :). Very solid play up until now from you, IMO!
 
Not to mention you turned vassal states off :mischief:. I'd have very much liked taking AI's as vassals, that would have sped things up considerably, not to mention it's fairly easy to get a vassal to convert civics/religions. Maybe too easy, since this is a role play CHALLENGE:lol:.

Diplo situation went very differently for your game than my um...what's it like 5 attempts?

I took some time off from this to run the Noble's club III game and what have you, but this weekend is a whole new weekend. I learned some things elsewhere and from failing at this 039482370698347 times, so I'll give it another go.

You're doing much better than me :). Very solid play up until now from you, IMO!

Regarding vassals. I turned them off because of the state property mandate. I cannot do anything military-wise to force a vassal to comply, nor do I want to trash our espionage system forcing them into it every 10 turns.

Vassals are fun, but some of these RPCs require the vassals off for the flow of the game.
 
Regarding vassals. I turned them off because of the state property mandate. I cannot do anything military-wise to force a vassal to comply, nor do I want to trash our espionage system forcing them into it every 10 turns.

Vassals are fun, but some of these RPCs require the vassals off for the flow of the game.

Although, technically per your rules they'd only need to be switched to SP just before winning :p (even if we have to take it right away, and in a game like this I'd actually want to anyway). That would make taking them a strategic choice, depending on victory type pursued etc. I'd imagine that if one goes for conquest, having SP satisfied wouldn't be too difficult (or population for that matter :lol:).

I say all this because I actually thought out how I'd use vassals (this prior to re-reading your rules and realizing i'd screwed up building oracle and had to start over, along with the no vassals). Usually vassals are bribed into civics/religions easily enough. There would be other options too, such as gifting them back cities to break them free then killing them, or constantly demanding resources in hopes they do so by choice. As you mentioned, it can also be attained via espionage (and that would contribute to rule 4) In a conquest situation, one could just force them back into SP just before the final enemy city is razed :mischief:.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not criticizing your choice of disabling them, either along the lines of the feel of the game, or for practical reasons. For me, forcing vassals quickly so that I can push my military advantage into another AI more quickly is pretty generic and common, so the setting actually helps me to think of a different approach. If (more like when, even if it takes 10 more tries) I finally beat this scenario, I'll probably have learned a lot more about successful intercontinental invasions also. I really like the settings. Perhaps the ONLY snag with them for me is...well...I keep getting my !@#$ handed to me :p. I'm watching how you play this very carefully, because after 5 attempts, some of what you're doing is VERY informative (plus nothing is really a spoiler for me at this point)!
 
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