Roleplaying Challenge: The Catfight

[Bleys]

Heh, I wasnt going to post too much anyway, and let Matt have his thread, I just thought it was a cool game to try out. But spoilers is a good idea. I didnt play too far last night, I only noticed the thread as I was headed to sleep.

I took Hatty because I really dislike most of the other "Queens" when I play against them, Cathy, Izzy and Boudica have caused me nothing but trouble time after time, and the 2 British queens are always WELL up in the top half when they turn up.

Overall, I think I would be interested in a format that was actually specifically designed like this. A scenario in which each player chooses his/her favorite leader, and all play the same map, each from their own unique starting position. Still trying to decide the best way to "present" it though, but I already LOVE this idea of 4 of us playing different leaders. Maybe once I get a few of my "game projects" cleaned up I currently have, in progress, the most recent LHC, which I am kicking ass (love that format, my fav RPC, actually), last months LHC, in which I got a 7-religion re-start (after 2 losses on Monarch from a mid-point save) I wanted to offer up for open advice, GOTM #28, which is an Islands map, but Immortal difficulty, and vanilla, which I am already losing and I only have 2 cities, LOL, etc etc.

But I find it fairly entertaining to play different games at the same time, for some reason. Only problem with that is I end up not actually finishing very many, heh.

Anyway, sorry if I accidently started a "hijack" on your thread Matti. Wasnt my intent!

 

[Peachrocks]

I am so tempted to join this and take Liz... she's my favourite female leader and nobody has picked her yet .

 

[Mattimeo]

Pick away!

 

[shyuhe]

I played this game on emperor but I uh... forgot to change the starting techs that the AI start with. That led to the rather bizarre situation of a successful warrior rush on emperor (which should never happen). To anybody else who edited the game through WB - if you went up to monarch+, you should give the other AI archery

 

[Bleys]

LOL, thats kind of amusing shyhe, I totally forgot about the bonuses between noble and the higher difficulties. I went for Prince though, so I dont think there are any problems, except maybe I gypped the AIs out of a scout? Not sure what the bonus differences are per level, to be honest.

Heres a quick report on my game, only played a bit, since I really want to get the LHC done first.

Spoiler :

Hatty started in a killer spot, a bunch of FPs, and stone. I somehow lost Stonehenge to Cathy (probably my overconfidence in how long I had to build it) but I did get the Oracle and Mids, as well as Hanging Gardens, one of my favorite wonders for non-EXP civs, but less so on Prince (health penalty not as bad as Emp). I noticed Cathy built Stoney though, so I quickly settled the horses between us, and a 3rd city to cut off another AI that was close enough to support the rush, and began pumping out War Chariots. Both my 2nd and 3rd city were a bit too far from my cap though, so I was getting hurt on maintenance. Still, I got 2 strong cities from her, and razed the other two. Moscow had Stoney, and was in a decent spot, nothing great being a capitol but solid, and Novgrood was on another patch of FPs, bordered by hills, so its going to be a STRONG unit producer as well as a big Specialist city. I should be able to swap back and forth to huge production or tons of specs, I love those types of cities.

I got Theo (bulb), CoL (teched) and Philo (bulbed, I wanted Pacifism), so I have 3 holy cities and am building the AP. I refuse to be too friendly with any of those cat-wenches either, especially that Izzy, she has a tech lead on me because of my war + money delays and her awesome starting location (gems are so good early). My plan is to run a full blown SE, and leverage the AP as best I can. I still havent finished settling my own area either, but I have courthouses finishing up in all the distant cities, so I should be able to resume my expansion shortly. I took MC with the Oracle, but popped a GP (was making chariots, so I didnt bother with any fast forges). Used him for Theo, since I want the AP on this map ASAP. Its becoming my favorite wonder, dont know why, maybe because I HATE when an AI gets it, LOL. I am hoping to get the SPaya for an early FR (the other religions are spread among the remaining AIs nicely for future Holy Wars, Izzy is Buddhist, Boudica is Hindu, and both Brits are Jewish.), since my Christian buildings will still get the hamer bonus from the AP, but we will see, I need the GLib first. I have a lot of hammer-heavy spots though, once I get in the groove I am going to be very strong.

All in all, I think my position is already strong enough to win, as long as I can keep the AIs from busting me up. I have tons of food tiles for an SE, so teching should be easy. I have a strong tendency to "over-build" my military, espcially on Pangaea maps, so I dont think I will have any problems. Will play more later, for now, going back to the LHC. Oh, for those who care, my GOTM 28 ended rather quickly, LOL. I forget how much different the Barbs are in Vanilla. So that ones out of the way, but BOTM #4 will be out soon! That is another format I am really enjoying. This game has so many cool things to do, months and months worth of solid, fun replayability.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the updates.

A progress report - very minor spoilers;

Spoiler :

I've played 200 turns to 400AD.

The start for Catherine was surprisingly ordinary I felt. Cows on Plains in the distance, Rice adjacent to a Lake, and plenty of Plains. Not horrible, but nothing great;

The Scout went to the Plains Hill that revealed not very much, so the Settler moved one south to at least get on the riverbank. Still nothing dazzling. The Settler founded Moscow;

With the victory target that included eliminating at least one rival and starting with the Mining technology, I went after Bronze Working with the view to Axe-rush someone from Moscow's inevitably near-by Copper ...

... that wasn't near-by as it so happened.

My Scout did pretty well. The first hut popped gave me The Wheel, then two lots of , and the fourth one took him to 6XPs ... I promoted him with Combat I and Medic I. With a view to being a combat medic, his scouting days were largely terminated, and he was sent to Moscow.

I was reasonably quick to spawn three Settler parties - one went south-west to a Copper-Sheep-Wheat coastal spot (St. Petersburg), one to the west there was a Marble-Wine-Rice-Iron-Oasis spot that was too good to resist (Novgorod), while to the north-west there was a Sugar-Sugar-Floodplains site that I opted to cottage up.

I've met the other ladies. Victoria was in a pretty unfortunate position, and I wouldn't have liked Catherine much if I was playing Victoria - boxed in to some extent in the south-east corner of the pangaea with a Creative leader to the north-west and not much terrain to get excited about beyond the capital. Anyway - Catherine aimed to put Victoria out of her misery.

(Unsurprisingly) Isabella a.k.a. Mattimeo had picked up Buddhism, while Hatshepsut had gone down the Monotheism path picking up both Hinduism and Judaism. Boudica and Elizabeth eventually took up Buddhism as well, and Isabella a.k.a. Mattimeo was keen to spread Buddhism into Russian cities. A bit of a 'no brainer' - I took up Buddhism with only Victoria and Hatshepsut 'on the outer'.

Despite the lack of Stone, I opted to plug ahead with The Pyramids in St. Petersburg (Copper-Sheep-Wheat) after it had built a couple of Axes, while Moscow acted as a unit pump. I almost always play on Normal speed, so the 'snail's pace' crawl towards The Pyramids had me quite concerned that I'd get pipped at some point, but thankfully none of the others were Industrious leaders either.

Moscow had been churning out a mixed stack of Axes and Swords, when as luck would have it, my Axes got the 'Shock promotion upgrade' event. With a stack of; 8 Axemen, 5 Swordsmen, 1 Spearman, and our trusty medic Scout, in 750BC, Catherine pulls the trigger;

Victoria had just the three cities - none on Hills:

Hastings went;

Raze.

York, the capital was next ... AI city placement! ...

Despite my relatively impressive SoD, the RNG wasn't doing me any favours, and I took the city with my last unit on the turn. York was garrisoned with 3 Axemen and 2 Archers though, so not a 'wafer thin' defense.

Raze.

I picked up a Great General, and settled him in St. Petersburg.

Canterbury was a crappy city on the east coast;

Raze.

And that was that! The Wicked Witch of the East is dead!

I resettled near the former cities of Hastings and York, and sent a Settler party up north towards Egyptian borders.

Finally in 20BC St. Petersburg got The Pyramids up (switch to Representation), and by 310AD Novgorod had built The Parthenon.

Due to my expansion my science rate was abysmal - even getting down to 10% at one stage. Representation and tech' trading has since put me to a 'relatively' competitive position technologically, but despite being the score leader I'm still not advanced. I've also picked up Gold and Ivory, that has allowed some good city growth, and am currently building a Winery that should press this advantage further. Wonderwise I'm working on The Great Library and The Temple of Artemis, and now that I have Ivory, I'm making a last minute dash at The Statue of Zeus - if I don't get it, the payout will be appreciated given Russia's less than great coffers.

I am somewhat concerned with the diplomatic situation. Hatshepsut should be the communal enemy, but I was intending to make her my vassal, and therefore the rest of the world would become one massive Buddhist bloc. Isabella a.k.a. Mattimeo is in likelihood going after the Apostolic Palace, and despite my size I am still a little wary of the early game Diplomatic defeat (so much for a cat fight!) although I'll probably be 'the challenger'. I'm uncertain if I'll be able to break up the team without resorting to some underhand ploy.

I was initially going to go after a Space win, but a Domination victory seems to be a far better target right now. Pulling a Diplomatic through what I imagine will be Spain's Apostolic Palace could be more do-able, but I still need to establish a Defensive Pact or Permanent Allience as per the variant (as well as getting the Vassal). Perhaps when that's done, Diplomatic could be the easiest option.

Not sure.

Oh! Just looked at Pigswill's report - I'll have to re-name my cities!

 

[Mattimeo]

The Catfight: Part II

This round has been VERY productive!

Got Agriculture, Mining, and the Wheel researched, and Pottery to get a granary. That let me farm that corn and mine those gems (which are basically fueling my research).

But I'm getting ahead of myself! We met Victoria before that...

And found out that my predictions were wrong! Catherine is to our east...

While Boudica is to our immediate south and Lizzy is to our south-west.

Here's Madrid from the outside:

It's looking up for us. Those gems are cranking out an amazing 1 food, 2 hammers, and 6 commerce (W00T!). We have a fairly good tech situation an, but our hammers are fairly low. Hopefully, that'll be fixed soon once we grow. I'm thinking just cottage spam the capital since we have more than enough food and not many hills.
I'm ALSO thinking get BW next to clear out all those pesky forests! We have some gems to put on our jewelry, so I think we're set. We just have to make sure that Boudica doesn't have gems either, because then we'd have to give them away.

I feel like I'm missing something, but yeah! We're off to a good start, I just hope we don't get boxed in by Cathy and have to rape her.

 

[shyuhe]

A tip for those playing this RPC. You should try to get a PA early instead of later. If you try to get the PA/DP after you vassalize someone, you have to manage the relationship between your vassal and the target civ. It took me almost 200 turns to get this to work in my game Eliminating a civ early is definitely the easiest way to deal with that requirement. I would save vassalizing for last and try to get a PA via mutual struggle (40 turns).

@Mattimeo - it's more likely that Boudica will box you in rather than Cathy considering her capital is closer to you.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks again for the update Mattimeo ...

I just hope we don't get boxed in by Cathy and have to rape her.

Goodness!

Thanks also for the tip shyuhe . I've never played a game with PA turned on so that's handy to know.

 

[pigswill]

Spoiler :

Built up a small stack (6 gallic, spear v chariots, shock axe v axe), declared on Isabella/Mattimeo in 1025bc, Seville autorazed 1025, Madrid captured and renamed Mattimeo's Gems in 950, Barcelona captured and renamed Last Fandango in 800bc and that was the end of Spain. One destroyed. (Isabella is an easy target when played by the AI as she seems to spam missionaries instead of soldiers.That's what happened in this game, she went and converted Liz while I was attacking her cities.)

Then simply a matter of rexing without totally falling behind on tech. By 400 ad I've got 10 cities and breaking even at 40% research (50% with golden age). Techwise I went for lit (picked up Soz and Glib (it helped having marble and ivory)), then to CoL (Vicky got there first), then off to music which I got in 370ad. Once Liz traded alphabet to me for aesthetics and priesthood I was able to backfill the techs I'd missed through trades.

My first GP was a prophet who founded Mahabodhi, my second GP was a GS who lightbulbed philosophy in 340ad. My third GP was the free GA from music that I've used to start a golden age. I'm currently researching currency and I've just traded music to friendly Liz for calendar so I'm having a go at MoM.

In terms of diplomacy and foreign affairs Vicky, Liz and I are the buddhist bloc, Hats is hindu and Cat's jewish. Cat has rexed up to 10 cities but is annoyed with everyone and everyone's annoyed with her. She has no OBs and is hopelessly behind on research especially with 10 cities and no CoL or currency. Hats has been wonder-spamming and is slightly behind on tech but as she (and Vicky) are the far side of Cat I don't really know what's happening over there.

Vicky and Liz are ahead on tech but I'm not miles behind. They both have theology so I guess one of them will build AP; if so I should win residency comfortably as I'm well ahead on buddhist population.

I've been cultivating Liz as my potential DP/PA partner and we're up to friendly despite close borders.

Still a long way to go but I'm doing ok so far, third place in soldiers but not by much. I'm reluctant to build too many ancient units because they'll be obselete by the time I go to war. Maybe I'll go for construction after currency and build some cats. I should be getting stone hooked up reasonably soon so a bunch of Duns would also boost my power rating without racking up unit maintenance.

Still not totally sure of victory or tech path. I'll probably aim for Miltrad at some point (which is why I went for music before CS), maybe standard lib/nationalism slingshot. Longer term I'd need fascism or communism for a PA. I'm also going to need to vassalise someone, Cat seems a target for that.

I could try something like finish rexing (there's only two decent spots left and Cat may beat me to one) then turn land superiority to commercial superioririty. Build up a military, declare on Cat, bribe Liz into war with me, get communism and try to get PA with Liz before vassalising Cat. By that point I'd be reasonably close to domination or alternatively head for Un for a pseudo-diplomatic victory.

Whether this works remains to be seen.

 

[Bleys]

OK two problems with this game, in a general sense. First, the Spanish and Celtic colors are way too alike, I have to really look hard to see where their territory divides. Second, every time Boudica or Izzy tells me to stop dealing with the "vile English" I am not sure which one they mean, LOL. Anyway, on to my update:

Spoiler :

Its 1000 AD or so, and I have a strong tech lead, as well as enough military to keep Boudi and Izzy off my back. I have already eliminated Cathy, and now my armies are marching toward York, Vickys capitol. I plan to eliminate her as well. I am grooming Liz as my DP partner, and plan to Vassel Boudi after I consolidate. I have been unable to REX much more territory for financial reasons, but I have dropped a city between my lands and Cathys, and built the FP there, so I can begin REXing my "draft/commerce purpose only" cities very soon. I have a bunch of great spots, mostly coastal, and since Vicky built the GLH and I have the Colossus, taking her capitol will REALLY jack my status up a big notch.

My SE has not been generating as many GP as I wish, but I contribute that to having Liz in the game and not running Pacifism, relying instead on OR for faster buildings. I dont mind, I settled a GProph, bulbed a GA, used 2nd GProph for Christian Shrine, settled a GE, and used a 2nd GE for a Wonder (Cant recall which now, MoM I think). I also used my only GS for an Academy in Thebes.

I am able to maintain a tech lead, but my cities are not growing as fast as I wish, mostly because of the specialists. I just finished CS, though, so soon I will do a "Pop boom" set of turns, putting every citizen I have on a +food tile, and climb to my Happy limit in as many as possible. I have most of the Calendar happiness resources hooked up already, so I have a big gap between my current happiness cap and my actual populations.

All in all, no worries. I have the AP as well, and plan to spread Christianity like wildfire soon, especially to Liz. Once I vassel Boudi and take out Vicky and Izzy, I should have my choice of VCs. I am not planning on keeping many of Vickys crappy cities, just York (for the Jewish shrine and wonders) and the one she has by the southern Marble, which borders Boudi. Boudi doesnt like me much but thats just tough, I have multiple LBs and such in all my border cities.

 

[Mattimeo]

Spoiler :

I have the AP as well, and plan to spread Christianity like wildfire soon...

Heresy!

BURN HIM!

 

[Bleys]

LOL, well met Mattimeo!!

This game is a blast, but the more I look at mine, the more I begin to realize I might end up winning before I meet the conditions! Great fun though, thanks a bunch for putting this game together, thoroughly enjoying it!

 

[Commodore Nate]

lol aw, there don't appear to be any open spots.
Well it's still entertaining reading what y'all're doing, hope I can learn something from them.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm not going to play, take Vicky off me. I've read too many spoilers.

 

[Mattimeo]

There doesn't need to be an "Open Spot" to sponsor! Just play in your own game, or follow your sponsoree's progress in mine!

 

[Diamondeye]

One of you people who has converted the WB to a scenario, would you mind uploading it as I might peek if trying to WB, which I suck at. I think I'll go Cathy Prince(ss) aswell. Oh, and Paradigm, good one about the internet - that's why it's included in civ, not?

 

[Cam_H]

Cat-herine game continued.

Spoiler :

400AD to 1450AD ... all quiet on the Western front ...

Where we left things in 400AD the economy was semi-shambolic but being salvaged thanks to Representation plus a few resources coming on stream. I was most wary of Isabella a.k.a. Mattimeo building the 'Apocolyptic Palace' and somehow stealing a Buddhist Diplomatic from under our noses.

I have since played on 110 turns to 1450AD, where there was a somewhat uninteresting period of rebuilding, quite a bit of Wonder grabbing, and preparation for what I hope will be a period where the game victory will start to take shape. A few cities were built to fill in some holes.

For starters we picked up most WoWs that we were after ... and more (a novice mistake, but they were just there!) ...

The Temple of Artemis
The Great Library
The Statue of Zeus
Shwedagon Paya
Mausoleum of Maussollos
The Great Lighthouse
The Colossus
University of Sankore
The Hanging Gardens
The Taj Mahal​

The only one Russia missed was Notre Dame, albeit on this level it's not much of a blow.

The Sistine Chapel and Angkor Wat were not pursued, while The Spiral Minaret and The Hagia Sophia were unavailable to me by the time I had accessed their tech's.

One big relief was the announcement that the leaders of Judaism had come together ... blah blah ... Judaism? So the religious 'fish out of water' - Hatshepsut - ended up building the Apostolic Palace which will prove to be useless to her.

Other bonuses in the turnset included; the Great Artist for Music (settled in a city near the Egyptian border), and Liberalism (a toss up, but went for Nationalism over Printing Press). Several National Wonders too were built; Hermitage, Oxford University, Maoi Statues, and the Forbidden Palace. I also bulbed Philosophy for Taoism - Russia's only self-founded religion.

I really don't feel as though I've been brilliant with my gameplay being somewhat attracted by all of the 'oh - shiney' WoWs. I have traded cautiously, loosely beelining Liberalism and now Rifling (Cossacks and Rifles). A few Cuirassiers have also been churned out to help the PowerChart along, where everyone's about on par.

Isabella a.k.a. Mattimeo has a couple of interesting technology trading options;

Boudica has declared war on both Egypt and (currently) Spain, but I haven't seen much evidence of cities falling. Hatshepsut continues to be the communal enemy however;

Anyway, we're stretching our lead on the scoreboard for what it's worth;

I have a Great Engineer sleeping at the moment, and I'm planning to shoot off a Golden Age with him (what a waste!) but there aren't any WoWs that I feel will help me as much in the forseeable future as getting a Cossack and Riflemen (and maybe Trebuchet if required) force up to vassalise Hatshepsut while some Civic switching too will be needed. I am mindful of shyuhe's point about getting the Permanent Alliance before the Vassal, but I feel that things are going so well diplomatically that the Permanent Alliance shouldn't be too hard to secure ... I think.

From here the plan will be to compile an Industrial Age army and scare the poop out of Hatshepsut, hope that Isabella a.k.a. Mattimeo doesn't start to nag me about going to war with Boudicia as I'd 'have my hands full', and tech' my way to a Permanent Alliance with Spain or less likely Celtia for a team Domination.

Apologies for lack of embracing the Catfight theme, but this is what I had to work with as my fearsome champion ...

 

[Cam_H]

Diamondeye,

Try here. When you save it, double click it in the saved folder to get it up and running. I'm assuming everyone other than Mattimeo is playing Prince level on Epic speed.

 

[Bleys]

Prince Epic here. I just started the game, went right into the WB, tried not to peek, and saved the map as "catfight". Then I went to "Load Scenario" and Catfight was listed as a scenario, allowing you to choose your civ, speed, and difficulty. Remember, the original map was created on Noble, so the AI didnt get any of its starting bonuses for Monarch and above, which include free techs, units and workers.

I think the easiest starting spots are Izzy, Hatty and Liz. I think the harder starting spots are Cathy (poor BFC, lots of jungle), Vicky (desert corner), and Boudi (tundra in the south, jungle close north).