Complete side note, but I'm currently playing a game of civ V with Acken's balance mod, and Rome actually became a super runaway civ. I'm only on emperor, and it's 1775 and they have 98% literacy with about 30 cities, almost all pop 20+ (for comparison, I just hit satellites and am about 14 techs behind them, currently in 6th in literacy). I don't know how much this is a fluke game, how much this is the mod, and how much this is me playing with a huge map size and 16 civs, but Rome isn't always a joke, even in V.
Thats impressive. Ceasar never gets anywhere near that in my immortal games, so im taking a potshot saying it's the mod.
Russia though, that flat + production bonus is just candy for the AI. While i guess Rome's production bonus is just wasted on the poor AI.
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Forts are definitely going to be more useful, simply because they take one turn to build instead of six. If you're defending a choke point, especially a choke point in rough terrain, you can send in your legion, build a fort there, and have a somewhat impenetrable spot. There's also the fact that protecting space is more important in VI because ideally, you don't want enemies coming in and pillaging your districts. These forts are going to be very useful in defense.
Free momuments sounds great early game, not super useful late game, but as you said, it's going to help a lot getting the snowball rolling. It's one thing you need to build that you can take out of your early game build order, helps you get a well developed government before anyone else, and gives you more of an ability to create an extra settler or two early game. Free monuments in V were so powerful in tradition that Firaxis eventually nerfed it by moving it further down in the culture tree, so this is not by any means a small benefit.
That's a good point about forts. I wish the legion had a bit more raw power (mostly because I'm nostalgic for the days of Civ IV when you could conquer the map with them), but the ability to build forts and roads in one turn opens up a lot of unique tactical possibilities for the Romans. Might not be so necessary against the AI but would probably be pretty strong in multiplayer.
And compared to the Civ V legion, the Civ VI legion might benefit if melee units in general are stronger. The Civ V legion had a pretty considerable strength boost on top of its infrastructure abilities, but because swordsmen were so terrible in that game, even a significantly improved swordsman unit wasn't that impressive. That dynamic hopefully won't be at play in Civ VI.
Historical accuracy is not the most important thing in a Civ game, but it helps to have recognizable leaders. I remember my delight when I saw Julius Caesar in Civ IV, since he looks quite like representations of him, albeit in a caricaturized (and well-animated) form. Civ VI's art department seems to have decided to make these leaders into weird characters who look *nothing* like the Real Life versions of them (with some notable exceptions like Roosevelt, who I note they edited to make resemble the Real Life Roosevelt far more after much (fair) complaining about how he looked like Taft and not Roosevelt).
Have you noticed the straight flat line at the neck and often the shoulders of many Roman statues? Romans used to sculpt a headless ideal body and then any time a hero or ruler fell from grace or died, the head and sometimes the arms were replaced with the current or more popular ruler/hero. The arms may have been replaced with new ones holding something to represent something they were known for, ie a book for a scholar or a sword for a warrior.
Literally the only way to know Trajan's body shape would be a time machine as Roman statues are completely unreliable for anything other than the head. Considering Trajan's age when he served as emperor I think the artist is probably closer to the truth than most statues.
Have you noticed the straight flat line at the neck and often the shoulders of many Roman statues? Romans used to sculpt a headless ideal body and then any time a hero or ruler fell from grace or died, the head and sometimes the arms were replaced with the current or more popular ruler/hero. The arms may have been replaced with new ones holding something to represent something they were known for, ie a book for a scholar or a sword for a warrior.
Literally the only way to know Trajan's body shape would be a time machine as Roman statues are completely unreliable for anything other than the head. Considering Trajan's age when he served as emperor I think the artist is probably closer to the truth than most statues.
I do admit, if I had to nitpick it, I wish his head was a little less long and a little more blocky. I think his chin and mouth would look more accurate like that.
1. Does anyone know what the trade route range is at the start of the game?
I assume there will be ways to increase the range so that cities founded later in the game and farther from Rome may still get the free roads if you have expanded your range but I would love to know how close my initial few cities need to be.
2. Are aqueducts something that all cities will want or are they just for cities that were not able to settle in fresh water? If you settle next to a river do you still want an aqueduct?
Other unique districts seem to be something you would always want to build but I was thinking of the aqueduct district as more of a situational thing that not every city would want or need, is that wrong?
3. Roads. Hopefully we will get details in the livestream tomorrow but I'm hoping they will work just like Legions/Workers in Civ5 where they can build unlimited roads just taking turns to build them. Then the charges would only be used up for forts.
4. Religion. Nothing in Rome's abilities is specifically religion focused but would the free monument make it likely that Rome could slot something like God King before anyone else and then have a high chance at first pantheon or religion?
I do admit, if I had to nitpick it, I wish his head was a little less long and a little more blocky. I think his chin and mouth would look more accurate like that.
This seems like another mechanically simple but strategically interesting civ. Im not sure what I think of Rome having so many of its bonuses in the very early game or being one of the best trade civs, but its a cohesive and impactful set of abilities regardless. I do think its very interesting that, while Legion is almost exactly the same is the Civ V version, the new builder mechanics will make it play entirely differently. Instead of having an alternate construction function during peace time, this version will actually be able to build roads and forts on the front lines, an ability with entirely different tactical implications.
I disagree. Wide culture wasn't valid in Civ V (although perhaps it is in Civ VI), and vanilla France didn't even do much with that +2 per city, which is why they changed it. Maybe there are some situations where you want a faster early border growth, but usually in a wide empire getting a free building of any kind is better than extra culture.
I wasn't comparing the two to say that this is better for culture wins, I simply compared the two since they're somewhat similar. What I'm really saying is that I'd rather have a free 1st building than an extra 2 culture in each city. Although I guess this is going to depend on what line of building prerequisites the monument is a part of. Maybe in Civ VI one can go wide and not build any monuments at all. In which case this isn't as useful as I expect.
Vanilla France was amazing in Civ V. Two extra culture in every city let you get through Liberty incredibly quickly (and remember, Liberty was far stronger than Tradition at this point). It may not have been great for a culture victory, but it gave you a massive head start on whatever strategy you ultimately chose to pursue.
Another way to think of the advantage that +2 culture has over a free monument is that it essentially lets you choose between the extra culture and the free building. If you'd rather have the free building, just leave the monument out of your build order and you'll have exactly that. If you'd rather have the culture, either immediately or at some point down the road, you can invest in actually building the monument and get 4 culture. Yes, the monument does unlock higher level buildings (though it may not in Civ VI), but if you're looking at building an amphitheater you'd be even better off building a "second" monument, as early game buildings are significantly more hammer efficient than later ones.
1. Does anyone know what the trade route range is at the start of the game?
I assume there will be ways to increase the range so that cities founded later in the game and farther from Rome may still get the free roads if you have expanded your range but I would love to know how close my initial few cities need to be.
I guess trading posts increase the range. In this case the requirement to be within range is meant to prevent exploit of building a city far away and having a long road immediately.
2. Are aqueducts something that all cities will want or are they just for cities that were not able to settle in fresh water? If you settle next to a river do you still want an aqueduct?
They seem to give fresh water + some additional housing, so you want to have them anyway.
3. Roads. Hopefully we will get details in the livestream tomorrow but I'm hoping they will work just like Legions/Workers in Civ5 where they can build unlimited roads just taking turns to build them. Then the charges would only be used up for forts.
It's a very interesting question and I don't see any solution which would work well.
4. Religion. Nothing in Rome's abilities is specifically religion focused but would the free monument make it likely that Rome could slot something like God King before anyone else and then have a high chance at first pantheon or religion?
1. Does anyone know what the trade route range is at the start of the game?
I assume there will be ways to increase the range so that cities founded later in the game and farther from Rome may still get the free roads if you have expanded your range but I would love to know how close my initial few cities need to be.
2. Are aqueducts something that all cities will want or are they just for cities that were not able to settle in fresh water? If you settle next to a river do you still want an aqueduct?
Other unique districts seem to be something you would always want to build but I was thinking of the aqueduct district as more of a situational thing that not every city would want or need, is that wrong?
3. Roads. Hopefully we will get details in the livestream tomorrow but I'm hoping they will work just like Legions/Workers in Civ5 where they can build unlimited roads just taking turns to build them. Then the charges would only be used up for forts.
4. Religion. Nothing in Rome's abilities is specifically religion focused but would the free monument make it likely that Rome could slot something like God King before anyone else and then have a high chance at first pantheon or religion?
1) we don't know yet, but the range was something like 10 tiles in V. Roads extended the range, so if it works the same way, you will have to spread out evenly.
2) all cities can benefit from Aqueducts, but cities without Fresh Water benefit more.
3) we will see.
4) Rome's free monuments will give them first dibs at pretty much anything accessed through the Civics tree.
You want them anyways but they are still a district that costs more the more districts you have and takes up a tile....for a city with Fresh water, +2 housing may not be enough (although they might have a later building that improves it.
They won't get religion faster (probably there is a Pantheon that increases Great Person Points from Holy Sites) But they will get the Pantheon (which just needs faith faster.
Have you noticed the straight flat line at the neck and often the shoulders of many Roman statues? Romans used to sculpt a headless ideal body and then any time a hero or ruler fell from grace or died, the head and sometimes the arms were replaced with the current or more popular ruler/hero. The arms may have been replaced with new ones holding something to represent something they were known for, ie a book for a scholar or a sword for a warrior.
Literally the only way to know Trajan's body shape would be a time machine as Roman statues are completely unreliable for anything other than the head. Considering Trajan's age when he served as emperor I think the artist is probably closer to the truth than most statues.
There are very few archaeological discoveries or historical documents who's accuracy is objectively certain. The idea is to run with what we have because it's all that's left. If you want to be so strict in your search for perfectly responsible legitimacy you're shutting out... most of known history.
Pretty much all sources identify Trajan as a muscle bound bad ass. He spent his life on campaign after campaign and by all accounts lead from the front with his troops. So that's what he was - whether he was or wasn't.
If you want to believe he wasn't, you're definitely not going by the evidence instead of just going by poor evidence.
even that said, I have read a lot of books on emperors of Rome, Trajan is the staple restless warrior emperor. It's cliché. I wish we could stop try no to justify otherwise here and move on, you have no idea how many historians you're directly contradicting with you're little 10 minute google searches for facts to justify the artist's interpretation.
The only valid debate here is whether you agree with the liberties the artist has taken or not.
There are very few archaeological discoveries or historical documents who's accuracy is objectively certain. The idea is to run with what we have because it's all that's left. If you want to be so strict in your search for perfectly responsible legitimacy you're shutting out... most of known history.
Pretty much all sources identify Trajan as a muscle bound bad ass. He spent his life on campaign after campaign and by all accounts lead from the front with his troops. So that's what he was - whether he was or wasn't.
If you want to believe he wasn't, you're definitely not going by the evidence instead of just going by poor evidence.
even that said, I have read a lot of books on emperors of Rome, Trajan is the staple restless warrior emperor. It's cliché. I wish we could stop try no to justify otherwise here and move on, you have no idea how many historians you're directly contradicting with you're little 10 minute google searches for facts to justify the artist's interpretation.
Literally any non-fiction Roman history book, pick any, that's you're source. I have never seen any controversy on the matter outside of this thread.
I am dropping this subject as I don't care, I am not history's advocate and guardian, let the topic move on to something else of actual substance, please.
I just have to flick in to say that no, you actually dont have the right to not have you opinion mocked.
You of course have the right to an opinion. You even have the right to have an mocking opinion.
This is why i can mock the leader of my country for example. Hail the free word and the internet
On Trajan: Someone else mentioned this. But i feel the UA and ULA will help the AI immensely. AI's that get economic bonuses or + abillities always feel stronger in my games (e.x. Persia). Finally Rome is something to not laugh at, maybe they could even push to make a AI Shoshone threat.
1. Does anyone know what the trade route range is at the start of the game?
I assume there will be ways to increase the range so that cities founded later in the game and farther from Rome may still get the free roads if you have expanded your range but I would love to know how close my initial few cities need to be.
The trader screen at :27 shows that at turn 77 [975 BC] the trader has a range of 15 for land routes and 30 for ocean, but we don't know if that's more than or the same as at the start of the game. As Eagle Pursuit said, it started at 10 tiles in V, but I don't remember exactly at what point this was increased.
Literally any non-fiction Roman history book, pick any, that's you're source. I have never seen any controversy on the matter outside of this thread.
I am dropping this subject as I don't care, I am not history's advocate and guardian, let the topic move on to something else of actual substance, please.
It would seem that you are dropping the subject because you know nothing about the subject.
There is actually is not a lot of material from historians that has survived about Trajan. I looked through Cassius Dio, Tacitus and Pliny the Younger amongst others but couldn't find any references to his physique. Certainly there is information on his predessor Nerva and his successor Hadrian in regards to their health and physique. All I could find was the references to Trajan being overly fond of wine, war and little boys.
It would seem that you are dropping the subject because you know nothing about the subject.
There is actually is not a lot of material from historians that has survived about Trajan. I looked through Cassius Dio, Tacitus and Pliny the Younger amongst others but couldn't find any references to his physique. Certainly there is information on his predessor Nerva and his successor Hadrian in regards to their health and physique. All I could find was the references to Trajan being overly fond of wine, war and little boys.
Haha, this made me smile. Nobody knows much of Trajan other than sculptor's renditions of his face. Also, if you're going to put a 60-year-old in short, armored dress, expect the usual. Not some Hollywood actor on Creatine and CrossFit.
That might be his leader agenda. He would want to get the wine luxury resource, wage wars all the time, especially to get a monopoly on the world's wine, as well as being the one with the highest population growth and/or captives (to maximize the number of little boys).
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