Rome

I have a recommendation based on a personal rework I did from the interbutts..

Rome was a governmental wonder empire... perhaps something more befitting that...

Perhaps changing the Unique building and Unique Unit (boy man this dude is a real pain in the ass here he is posting after all this **** is done) but still. Why not instead a rework for the next try how about either changing the unique building or changing the component. Legions ought get March... perhaps give the Unique building something I was thinking... what about instead of great general points +1 culture in capital per owned luxury resource... (really might fit them SUPERFINE)
 
Then again though. I wish I was here to post this at the beginning of the project. (Romes expansion UA and Legion are more than enough for Rome expanding like a pincoushin) what they really ought have is what they did have AS ROME. Rome was an entirely governmental empire. Their military was pointless without their strict regimentation. Social policies represent government... as such Rome should be... Social policy based. The change I presented is probably pretty easy to code and QUITE fair. in a normal game that winds up being like 6 or so luxories thus the UB is contributing an extra +6 or what not however many they grow to encomass to the capital. (personally I think that REALLY captures the spirit of Rome and MOST importantly if the opponent begins to take territory watch them become weaker and weaker like they did IRL and fall apart. If Anything Rome should be pilling on culture more than ANY other Civ why not aid them as such... would you say it was the Legions...? or the governmental structure behind the legions that was pushing out Roman expansion.... plus a cultural rome can play less militarily which evens them out. IMAGINE what if the Roman Republic survived how would that have changed things? Would Rome still have collapsed the way it did (Remember How many civs at the time changed from Kingdom to Republic to Empire... (practically NONE)

Another alternate UA if you do feel like getting creative with a rework could be (I'm going to be lame but +% combat strength and +% culture per ancient policy and take the reducing damage from Conquest... (That would be A SUPER FUN And SUPER SCARY Rome to throw down against.)
 
Jarula said:
Then again though. I wish I was here to post this at the beginning of the project. (Romes expansion UA and Legion are more than enough for Rome expanding like a pincoushin) what they really ought have is what they did have AS ROME. Rome was an entirely governmental empire. Their military was pointless without their strict regimentation. Social policies represent government... as such Rome should be... Social policy based. The change I presented is probably pretty easy to code and QUITE fair. in a normal game that winds up being like 6 or so luxories thus the UB is contributing an extra +6 or what not however many they grow to encomass to the capital. (personally I think that REALLY captures the spirit of Rome and MOST importantly if the opponent begins to take territory watch them become weaker and weaker like they did IRL and fall apart. If Anything Rome should be pilling on culture more than ANY other Civ why not aid them as such... would you say it was the Legions...? or the governmental structure behind the legions that was pushing out Roman expansion.... plus a cultural rome can play less militarily which evens them out. IMAGINE what if the Roman Republic survived how would that have changed things? Would Rome still have collapsed the way it did (Remember How many civs at the time changed from Kingdom to Republic to Empire... (practically NONE)

Another alternate UA if you do feel like getting creative with a rework could be (I'm going to be lame but +% combat strength and +% culture per ancient policy and take the reducing damage from Conquest... (That would be A SUPER FUN And SUPER SCARY Rome to throw down against.)
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RL Rome had a focus on infrastructure. They also were good at integrating barbarians (foreign people) into the empire. Most conquered had rights in the empire and they could apply for citizenship in some cases. It could be argued that Rome was culturally strong, but a good lot of her culture came from Greece/Egypt.
In all, I think current UA is fine, both thematically and in gameplay.
 
I also think current UA and UB are fine, but Legion is probably the worst UU in the game. It should get that +Drill or +Assault promotion, I've played some games with my change that made Legions have Drill and it still was far from overwhelming to say the least.
 
Rome primarily grew by absorbing weaker groups into itself. What if the Legion got a unique promotion that boosted Combat Strength against civs with fewer cities than Rome? It would kind of be a reversed version of Ethiopia's bonus. The promotion would be pretty snowbally and incredibly OP on later game units though, so maybe it should be lost on upgrade.
 
Charos said:
Rome primarily grew by absorbing weaker groups into itself. What if the Legion got a unique promotion that boosted Combat Strength against civs with fewer cities than Rome? It would kind of be a reversed version of Ethiopia's bonus. The promotion would be pretty snowbally and incredibly OP on later game units though, so maybe it should be lost on upgrade.
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We do not need more encouragement for snowballing, ever.
 
Funak said:
We do not need more encouragement for snowballing, ever.
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I agree, which is why I suggested the proposed promotion should be lost upon upgrading to Longswordsmen. What do you think of the rest of the concept?
 
Charos said:
I agree, which is why I suggested the proposed promotion should be lost upon upgrading to Longswordsmen. What do you think of the rest of the concept?
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Still think the same thing, even if the promotion doesn't stay around it still encourages snowballing.

Maybe the legion should just be better at capturing cities? Even if that doesn't really feel very legiony.
 
Funak said:
Still think the same thing, even if the promotion doesn't stay around it still encourages snowballing.

Maybe the legion should just be better at capturing cities? Even if that doesn't really feel very legiony.
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Not a bad idea. Or, to tweak/clarify my concept - what if the Legion CS bonus didn't scale with size difference? Say, 20% stronger against any civ with fewer cities, no matter how many fewer. Not sure if I had implied that it would scale with the city delta, but that wasn't my intention.
 
I still think all Roman Melee units should be able to build roads/forts, and give Legion free Drill 1.

I think the 'less cities' thing is a bad idea. It's good when you don't need it and literally worthless when you do.
 
How about a free March promotion? Take the CS down a notch to not make them invincible in their era, and voilà; a unit to sustain ranged attacks that replenishes its numbers quickly. Kinda fits on the Legion theme in my opinion, snowball or not. Otherwise a promotion to replace Cover, giving them a universal defense bonus.
 
Randomares said:
How about a free March promotion? Take the CS down a notch to not make them invincible in their era, and voilà; a unit to sustain ranged attacks that replenishes its numbers quickly. Kinda fits on the Legion theme in my opinion, snowball or not. Otherwise a promotion to replace Cover, giving them a universal defense bonus.
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I would love free march, but it seems OP. A better general defensive promotion might make sense.
 
Here it is... how about a buff +% combat strength for each ancient policy adopted.... THAT RIGHT THERE IS ROME. the promotion passes on meaning incredibly strong late game units if they survive but even a +60% combat strength 12 isn't going to last long as time goes on. meaning slowly those MEGA units superior legions will fall.

Gives Rome a early on buff but as time goes on it Definitely tapers off....especially as legions fall plus it encourages them to expand in the early game.
 
Jarula said:
Here it is... how about a buff +% combat strength for each ancient policy adopted.... THAT RIGHT THERE IS ROME. the promotion passes on meaning incredibly strong late game units if they survive but even a +60% combat strength 12 isn't going to last long as time goes on. meaning slowly those MEGA units superior legions will fall.

Gives Rome a early on buff but as time goes on it Definitely tapers off....especially as legions fall plus it encourages them to expand in the early game.
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Culture is already too important, plus 60% CS is insane.
 
Oh no of course not I was proposing a +% combat strength that improves based on the number of ancient policies.
 
Gazebo said:
I really don't think that the Legion needs anything. Rome's already really solid, and the Legion can dish out serious damage (and absorb it too). You can get them Cover II quickly which makes them nigh-impossible to bring down with same-era ranged units.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think the main problem people have with the Legion is that even when they're active Rome isn't that big of a conquering force.
 
Gazebo said:
I really don't think that the Legion needs anything. Rome's already really solid, and the Legion can dish out serious damage (and absorb it too). You can get them Cover II quickly which makes them nigh-impossible to bring down with same-era ranged units.

G
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It's also that the legion isn't much better than a normal swordsman. It gives 2 CS, cover 1 and the ability to build roads for a short time. The roads and forts part is okay, but too slow to use on your main front-line units. I don't think the ability is that good.

It's a similar problem to camel archer. It's a good unit but it's barely better than it's non-unique version.

I'd take Hoplites over Legions any day of the week. and that's a problem imo.
 
I used to really like Legions, I would make iron working my 6th or 7th tech, build them really early and just dominate. What I've realized is that you can do that with regular swordsmen too. Legions are good mostly because they replace a good unit. There isn't really anything game changing about them, at 2 movement its tough to build roads with them.

March was suggested above and would have great synergy with road construction. Currently I often think about building a road but decide to spend the turn healing instead. With march you could do both
 
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