RR12 - A perfect spy
- Thread starter r_rolo1
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Thy_Spellcraft
King
Ok, took me a bit longer due to some internet problem..
I don'T think there#s so much to discuss about:
1. Kill of Mounties units in Texoco and take peace afterwards taking Texcoco within the deal and shut down EP generation on him
2. Waiting until Timbuktu finally falls and afterwards taking peace with mali for whatever city we'll get.
3. Keep spreading culture to Mali and Aztecs.
4. Spread Christianity and corps and buid up needed EP-Infra.
5. Keep on pushing towards Wang and Darius.
6. Techwise I'd keep on flight, as it would net us airports for even faster movement of our spie, missionaries and executives
But there are still a few questions to be discussed: When shall we DoW Wang? Shall we wait until we spread christianity to all of his cities or sahll we rather DoW the moment we got more than 50 % in Seoul and a stack nearby?
And what do we want to do with the GAs sitting around?
I don'T think there#s so much to discuss about:
1. Kill of Mounties units in Texoco and take peace afterwards taking Texcoco within the deal and shut down EP generation on him
2. Waiting until Timbuktu finally falls and afterwards taking peace with mali for whatever city we'll get.
3. Keep spreading culture to Mali and Aztecs.
4. Spread Christianity and corps and buid up needed EP-Infra.
5. Keep on pushing towards Wang and Darius.
6. Techwise I'd keep on flight, as it would net us airports for even faster movement of our spie, missionaries and executives
But there are still a few questions to be discussed: When shall we DoW Wang? Shall we wait until we spread christianity to all of his cities or sahll we rather DoW the moment we got more than 50 % in Seoul and a stack nearby?
And what do we want to do with the GAs sitting around?
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IIRC we have almost no troops on Wang's border. We need to free up some stacks, including some artillery and infantry before we can talk war.
Is there a danger of Persia joining? That also affects the decision.
I do think we was Wang to enjoy Christ first before war.
I have no idea what to do with the artists. Do we save them for emergency culture near end-game? Can we get another GA - that would be worth giving up an artist for.
Is there a danger of Persia joining? That also affects the decision.
I do think we was Wang to enjoy Christ first before war.
I have no idea what to do with the artists. Do we save them for emergency culture near end-game? Can we get another GA - that would be worth giving up an artist for.
r_rolo1
King of myself
1) Kill all of his units in both cities 
otherwise the others will teleport to the cap after we ask the city in the peace deal ...
2) Not sure ... for now mansa is only willing to part of Walata. IMHo we should keep the pressure and killing units of him until he is willing to part of something more substantial.
3) The Aztecs ... not so much , given that we are going to ask him one of his cities 8 in the other is Ok ). In Mali ... definitely. Gao needs to get into the 50% area and we have cities with residual culture of ou or simply none.
4) Especially christianity, as LK pointed. the corps are nice and all but are in second place in here.
5) Definitely. We only spread culture to the Korean cap so far and we should diversify the targets now that we already have a path into the Korean cap. The persian situation is even more complicated since we can't reach other cities of persia without pumping culture in Pasargadae ( Tarsus is already in revolt area ) ... that still has a SB to add :/
6) I already told my opinion on this
Dowing wang ... well, we need to free up some units to get wang first ... that and getting a credible stack in the eastern border. Not sure if that can be arranged in one turnset. On the artists ... well, i think that we can get a golden age out of one of them, so do it if possible.
otherwise the others will teleport to the cap after we ask the city in the peace deal ...2) Not sure ... for now mansa is only willing to part of Walata. IMHo we should keep the pressure and killing units of him until he is willing to part of something more substantial.
3) The Aztecs ... not so much , given that we are going to ask him one of his cities 8 in the other is Ok ). In Mali ... definitely. Gao needs to get into the 50% area and we have cities with residual culture of ou or simply none.
4) Especially christianity, as LK pointed. the corps are nice and all but are in second place in here.
5) Definitely. We only spread culture to the Korean cap so far and we should diversify the targets now that we already have a path into the Korean cap. The persian situation is even more complicated since we can't reach other cities of persia without pumping culture in Pasargadae ( Tarsus is already in revolt area ) ... that still has a SB to add :/
6) I already told my opinion on this
Dowing wang ... well, we need to free up some units to get wang first ... that and getting a credible stack in the eastern border. Not sure if that can be arranged in one turnset. On the artists ... well, i think that we can get a golden age out of one of them, so do it if possible.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
OK, started the set and played half of it.. But it's too late to finish it today! I'll try to do the rest of it somewhen on the weekend.
In case somebody want to take it to finish it feel free to take it!
In case somebody want to take it to finish it feel free to take it!
r_rolo1
King of myself
Nice ... 2 cities in 6 turns . You got Tarsus via AP, I presume ...
Anyway, Timbuktu STILL holds
I'll wait for the rest of the set tomorrow. otherwise I'll pass it to the next player.
P.S Please , PLEASE, upgrade the frigate we have to destroyer and kill those marauding Malinese frigates
Anyway, Timbuktu STILL holds
I'll wait for the rest of the set tomorrow. otherwise I'll pass it to the next player.
P.S Please , PLEASE, upgrade the frigate we have to destroyer and kill those marauding Malinese frigates
Tarsus is great news! With Monty I wouldn't bother much about the stationary bonus btw, we have a crapload of EP on him and the missions are very cheap. Maybe steal some treasury too while you're at it. Good luck with the remainder of the set.
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Texcoco came with SY. 
We also have more fish - Sushi slowly improving. Glad to see Monty at 0 new EP.
It is nice to see an assault on Walata starting. We need multiple cities under pressure at this point.
We have Versailles in Tarsus. At some point we will want to move the palace again. The economy won't get hurt by moving once the front is further away. We also have Mt. Rushmore for no shields spent.
We now have Notre Dame for more happiness. Getting that city really helps us.
It looks like we just got in the IT, since Darius still has troops in it, and we have none along with a stack of spies.
Can we put our Iron Works city of Lalibela on Cristo? It only needs six turns, and a missionary is massive shield wastage.
Where do we want West Point? Combine with HE, or put it in another city?
It won't happen quickly, but with Teno having two settled generals I would like to push it toward another military center. Get the Levee and Factory up ASAP; finish spy buildings; and then infinite military building. That is too much XP IMO to not use.
Kubmi will gain +18 CPT now thanks to Sushi. I would to push Sushi to our border cities to speed up the ability to attack enemy cities. We are hitting the point where every turn counts.
We need more great sets with 2 cities in six turns.
What is crazy is we are up to 94 spies, and still need more. Niani has our culture, but we just don't have enough spies to deal with it.
I knew Djenne would be a financial boom for us. I didn't realize how much of a production bonus it would be. 53 base shields is NICE.
Can we fire the artist in Kaskake. We now own the bordering city, so anything is better then artist.
We also have more fish - Sushi slowly improving. Glad to see Monty at 0 new EP.It is nice to see an assault on Walata starting. We need multiple cities under pressure at this point.
We have Versailles in Tarsus. At some point we will want to move the palace again. The economy won't get hurt by moving once the front is further away. We also have Mt. Rushmore for no shields spent.
We now have Notre Dame for more happiness. Getting that city really helps us.
It looks like we just got in the IT, since Darius still has troops in it, and we have none along with a stack of spies.
Can we put our Iron Works city of Lalibela on Cristo? It only needs six turns, and a missionary is massive shield wastage.
Where do we want West Point? Combine with HE, or put it in another city?
It won't happen quickly, but with Teno having two settled generals I would like to push it toward another military center. Get the Levee and Factory up ASAP; finish spy buildings; and then infinite military building. That is too much XP IMO to not use.
Kubmi will gain +18 CPT now thanks to Sushi. I would to push Sushi to our border cities to speed up the ability to attack enemy cities. We are hitting the point where every turn counts.
We need more great sets with 2 cities in six turns.
What is crazy is we are up to 94 spies, and still need more. Niani has our culture, but we just don't have enough spies to deal with it.
I knew Djenne would be a financial boom for us. I didn't realize how much of a production bonus it would be. 53 base shields is NICE.
Can we fire the artist in Kaskake. We now own the bordering city, so anything is better then artist.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Nice ... 2 cities in 6 turns . You got Tarsus via AP, I presume ...
Anyway, Timbuktu STILL holds
I'll wait for the rest of the set tomorrow. otherwise I'll pass it to the next player.
P.S Please , PLEASE, upgrade the frigate we have to destroyer and kill those marauding Malinese frigates
The earliest I'll be able to play will be Saturday. So in case this wioll be too late move the game to the next player!
Any yes, it was AP resolution!
r_rolo1
King of myself
Thy,, if you wanna play, play it. I was under impression that weekend meant Sunday My mistake 
But if you can't/ won't play anyway, please leave a mini report
My mistake But if you can't/ won't play anyway, please leave a mini report
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Which means going to Christian religion really paid for us.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
As I'm not completely sure: Is it a good idea to sabotage the SecBureau in the first turn (without waiting bonus) to mekr sure it would not increase the chance of thwarting our spies even though it gets rebuild within two turns?
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Ok, played a few more turn until a point, where we need to discuss whether to DoW Wang or not. We've got a revolt chance in Seoul this turn, a valid stack is nearby and our southern border should be secured!
So I'd vote for blowing the war horns once again!!
Nonetheless here the major things that happend the last turns:
I killed as many of Mounty's units and made this peace with him:
As already mentioned we had an AP resolution that we won, but for some reason once again no picture got taken
Meanwhile I canceled a deal with Darius and resigned this one:
And we've got another GSpy born.. That's it..
No flip... Not even a single revolt.
Let's hope the next player will be blessed a way more luck than I did!
So I'd vote for blowing the war horns once again!!
Nonetheless here the major things that happend the last turns:
I killed as many of Mounty's units and made this peace with him:
Spoiler :
As already mentioned we had an AP resolution that we won, but for some reason once again no picture got taken
Meanwhile I canceled a deal with Darius and resigned this one:
Spoiler :
And we've got another GSpy born.. That's it..
No flip... Not even a single revolt.Let's hope the next player will be blessed a way more luck than I did!
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ok, i given a quick skim to the save and i tried to see what mansa would ask for peace. He will not part of Thracian ( or his cap, obviously ) or any combination of 2 cities , but he will give up of Gao...
I know I've said that we should not acept anything of mansa before his cap to fall, but the Malian cap ATM is culturally surrounded and Gao would still need a lot of work to get in spite of being already in the 50ishs% area of our cultures ( but no revolt rist due to garrison ) ... and we could redeploy part of our forces that are mansa side to the east to attack Wang, if we chose to.
That takes us to the point of warring Wang. I'm perfectly OK with that, but I would prefer to do that after the next AP vote ( in 3 turns ), where hopefully we can snag the Korean cap without war.
So what i would suggest in here would be to make peace with Mansa ( not necessarily ASAP , but soon ) getting Gao and try to snag Seoul via AP. Then see if we border any Korean city ( ATM if we got Seoul we will only border Pusan ) and if we do, DoW Wang.
Or should we get other city out of the AP ? ATM and IIRC of the rules, we have 5 cities that can be snagged via AP: Tlatelolco ( Aztecs ), Walata, Timbuktu, and Gao ( Mali ) and Seoul ( Korea ). Walata, Tlatelolco and Timbuktu have high revolt risk ( 9-10% ), Seoul has a medium one ( 4,81% ) while Gao has 0%. If we get Gao out of the peace deal, then Seoul is the best bet IMHO
Wang is teching Mass media, btw. That is not good by one side ( Hollywood ) and good for other ( UN )...
Our teching next ... after Flight, what next ? Rocketry? Industrialism ? Fission would be also OK, but we can steal it from the Americans ... Industrialism = tanks and the road to plastics ( TGD ), Rocketry , besides being needed for nukes, is needed for gunships ( Rocketry is needed for Satelites, that is needed for Advanced Flight ). I'm 50/50 on this.
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r_rolo1
Thy_Spellcraft - just played
Brian Shanahan - MIA
lymond - UP
Thrar - MIA
LKendter -on deck
nocho
P.S We need to get to the Americans culturally as soon as possible. That either means pumping culture in the eastern cities of Wang ( needs a lot of culture ) or some scheme via the northern border of Persia. Either way, we need to start doing that yesterday.
I know I've said that we should not acept anything of mansa before his cap to fall, but the Malian cap ATM is culturally surrounded and Gao would still need a lot of work to get in spite of being already in the 50ishs% area of our cultures ( but no revolt rist due to garrison ) ... and we could redeploy part of our forces that are mansa side to the east to attack Wang, if we chose to.
That takes us to the point of warring Wang. I'm perfectly OK with that, but I would prefer to do that after the next AP vote ( in 3 turns ), where hopefully we can snag the Korean cap without war.
So what i would suggest in here would be to make peace with Mansa ( not necessarily ASAP , but soon ) getting Gao and try to snag Seoul via AP. Then see if we border any Korean city ( ATM if we got Seoul we will only border Pusan ) and if we do, DoW Wang.
Or should we get other city out of the AP ? ATM and IIRC of the rules, we have 5 cities that can be snagged via AP: Tlatelolco ( Aztecs ), Walata, Timbuktu, and Gao ( Mali ) and Seoul ( Korea ). Walata, Tlatelolco and Timbuktu have high revolt risk ( 9-10% ), Seoul has a medium one ( 4,81% ) while Gao has 0%. If we get Gao out of the peace deal, then Seoul is the best bet IMHO
Wang is teching Mass media, btw. That is not good by one side ( Hollywood ) and good for other ( UN )...
Our teching next ... after Flight, what next ? Rocketry? Industrialism ? Fission would be also OK, but we can steal it from the Americans ... Industrialism = tanks and the road to plastics ( TGD ), Rocketry , besides being needed for nukes, is needed for gunships ( Rocketry is needed for Satelites, that is needed for Advanced Flight ). I'm 50/50 on this.
Roster
r_rolo1
Thy_Spellcraft - just played
Brian Shanahan - MIA
lymond - UP
Thrar - MIA
LKendter -on deck
nocho
P.S We need to get to the Americans culturally as soon as possible. That either means pumping culture in the eastern cities of Wang ( needs a lot of culture
) or some scheme via the northern border of Persia. Either way, we need to start doing that yesterday.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Concerning tech plan I'm for Industrialism, as I'd rate tanks and TGD higher than gunships.. They are nice to kill even the last city-defender, but the prod-boot out of TGD seems to be bit more important!
r_rolo1
King of myself
True, but the path to Adv Flight has other thing that we will want: rocketry, that is needed for nukes ( and guided missiles, that are not too shabby for our variant ) EDIT: and anti-tank, that is not a bad idea since we have company in the trail for industrialism ( again the americans ) . I agree that TGD + tanks ( Industrial parks where possible ) would be a major boon to our global prod and warring abilities in a shorter time frame, though ...
In fact , the thing I'm more insecure about my latest post is really the part of peacing mansa for Gao and AP snag of Seoul. It is not a bad idea, if I am entitled to say it, but it might have long term consequences that we might not want and it might also not be the best use of our city snagging abilities ( say, getting the last city of Monty via AP ( AFAIK the fact that the AP can assign the last city of player to other was never "solved" ( suposing that it is a issue to be solved and not a irking feature ) or get another city via AP of Mansa ... ). What do you people think of this ?
) EDIT: and anti-tank, that is not a bad idea since we have company in the trail for industrialism ( again the americans ) . I agree that TGD + tanks ( Industrial parks where possible ) would be a major boon to our global prod and warring abilities in a shorter time frame, though ... In fact , the thing I'm more insecure about my latest post is really the part of peacing mansa for Gao and AP snag of Seoul. It is not a bad idea, if I am entitled to say it, but it might have long term consequences that we might not want and it might also not be the best use of our city snagging abilities ( say, getting the last city of Monty via AP ( AFAIK the fact that the AP can assign the last city of player to other was never "solved" ( suposing that it is a issue to be solved and not a irking feature ) or get another city via AP of Mansa ... ). What do you people think of this ?
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AP city is tough to call. Part of me wants the last Aztec city, but I know we need to push east more. Anything east is better. IMO we are running to tight to get further east. We need all the help possible going that way.
We have plenty of EP with Monty, so that is probably the easier way to get his last city.
A spy from Djenne is very wasteful for shields. Can we either pump out more executives, or high cost military from the city. 57 base shields for a 40 shield spy.
If we took Gao for peace, do we get the culture to connect to our other cities? I can't recall that from peace deals. We don't want a city that can't be defend in the next Mansa war.
We have plenty of EP with Monty, so that is probably the easier way to get his last city.
A spy from Djenne is very wasteful for shields. Can we either pump out more executives, or high cost military from the city. 57 base shields for a 40 shield spy.
If we took Gao for peace, do we get the culture to connect to our other cities? I can't recall that from peace deals. We don't want a city that can't be defend in the next Mansa war.
r_rolo1
King of myself
The issue with the possesion of tiles is:
- Our tile culture must be bigger than anyone else
- The tile must be in cultural range of a city of ours ( aka closer or in the legendary BFC ). Otherwise it will not be ours.
If you check the area around gao you will see that the tiles that have a bigger culture of ours than Malian near Gao connect with the ones we already possess and we have legendary radius in there. So it will connect ( and in fact, when I tested the aceptance of Gao delivery by Mansa , the borders connected ). That alone is a big plus since it will make the SoD in Thracian unable to reinforce the rest of the cities...
I agree that we need to push east ASAP. In fact the biggest urgence now IMHO is to put culture in New York, the most western of the american ciites, and we are far away from it ( more 3 culture expansions in Pusan as the quickest path if I'm seeing the thing right ). That alone might give us a big headache since time is not on our side ...
- Our tile culture must be bigger than anyone else
- The tile must be in cultural range of a city of ours ( aka closer or in the legendary BFC ). Otherwise it will not be ours.
If you check the area around gao you will see that the tiles that have a bigger culture of ours than Malian near Gao connect with the ones we already possess and we have legendary radius in there. So it will connect ( and in fact, when I tested the aceptance of Gao delivery by Mansa , the borders connected ). That alone is a big plus since it will make the SoD in Thracian unable to reinforce the rest of the cities...
I agree that we need to push east ASAP. In fact the biggest urgence now IMHO is to put culture in New York, the most western of the american ciites, and we are far away from it ( more 3 culture expansions in Pusan as the quickest path if I'm seeing the thing right ). That alone might give us a big headache
since time is not on our side ...
Thy_Spellcraft
King
To get the culture a way faster towards NY we should think about whether to spread culture without waiting bonus or not. I think spreading culture to Pusan is not that expensive at the moment so we could save 4 turns per spy..
About Mounty: even though we do have lots of EPs left on him I think we could leave him be and wait until RNG god gifts us this city.. Mounty won't be able to get the revolting chance down to zero so it's only a matter of time. We should rather use those spys for someone else!
And about peace with Mansa: In case Timbuktu falls will gao be the new capital? In that case I too would vote for taking peace. Otherwise we should keep on warring him until at least Walata falls into our hands!
About Mounty: even though we do have lots of EPs left on him I think we could leave him be and wait until RNG god gifts us this city.. Mounty won't be able to get the revolting chance down to zero so it's only a matter of time. We should rather use those spys for someone else!
And about peace with Mansa: In case Timbuktu falls will gao be the new capital? In that case I too would vote for taking peace. Otherwise we should keep on warring him until at least Walata falls into our hands!
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