Thy_Spellcraft
King
we don't have math yet! I decided to rather go for alpha than for math! I asked for a consensus but as noone complained about going alpha first I simply did!
RR13 - Hearts and Minds
- Thread starter r_rolo1
- Start date
550BC (inherited): Sign OB with SB, can't drop confu yet.
525BC: Drop confu
475BC: Sucky event that gets a non-essential road washed away. Refuse to pay 20 bucks to repair it.
400BC: GSpy is born, builds SY in the capital.
375BC: We learn alpha. Only Shaka of all people already has it.
350BC: We're informed that we're the least powerfull civ out there. Duh.
325BC: Brennus proposes OB. Okay to that.
We get sailing from Pacal for writing, our gpt is raised by 1 (NE city connected through rivers).
We get Poly from Zara for med+PH.
300BC: We settle Y-spot. There was no escort yet available for going up north towards the pigs and Y is a reasonable spot that can contribute relatively soon. Had its sheep hooked up the turn before settling.
250BC: Brennus wants us to cancel deals with SB. Declined.
Hand it over here.
Other news:
* Our most northern city got connected to our road network. Cut the jungle from underneath its SW sugar tile only to have it culturally stolen by SB.
However, monument is just finished and we just got a confu spread there, so we'll likely win it back soonish.
* Got 3 extra workers, we now have 7 but obviously can use more.
* As for military, built 2 axes and a chariot.
* Another settler is about to finish in Aksum. This one might go up north.
* Didn't hire a spy in capital during the set. Wanted to get workers and settlers out asap. Right now I tentatively hired one.
* Have our 2 most productive cities just set to building research with the idea of maintaining that until currency is in, due in 5 turns.
* Pata should be able to whip its library soon.
Tech screen:
Overview of the land:
525BC: Drop confu
475BC: Sucky event that gets a non-essential road washed away. Refuse to pay 20 bucks to repair it.
400BC: GSpy is born, builds SY in the capital.
375BC: We learn alpha. Only Shaka of all people already has it.
350BC: We're informed that we're the least powerfull civ out there. Duh.
325BC: Brennus proposes OB. Okay to that.
We get sailing from Pacal for writing, our gpt is raised by 1 (NE city connected through rivers).
We get Poly from Zara for med+PH.
300BC: We settle Y-spot. There was no escort yet available for going up north towards the pigs and Y is a reasonable spot that can contribute relatively soon. Had its sheep hooked up the turn before settling.
250BC: Brennus wants us to cancel deals with SB. Declined.
Hand it over here.
Other news:
* Our most northern city got connected to our road network. Cut the jungle from underneath its SW sugar tile only to have it culturally stolen by SB.
However, monument is just finished and we just got a confu spread there, so we'll likely win it back soonish.* Got 3 extra workers, we now have 7 but obviously can use more.
* As for military, built 2 axes and a chariot.
* Another settler is about to finish in Aksum. This one might go up north.
* Didn't hire a spy in capital during the set. Wanted to get workers and settlers out asap. Right now I tentatively hired one.
* Have our 2 most productive cities just set to building research with the idea of maintaining that until currency is in, due in 5 turns.
* Pata should be able to whip its library soon.
Tech screen:
Overview of the land:
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I see one axe above Patal. We can use that as an escort for the new settler to take the jungle pigs site.
I like all the new workers that we have.
I put Bombay on axe and the time for currency went to seven turns. IMO saving 2 turns on currency isn't work 2+ axes. We have one city without garrison, and Bombay (among others) still have warriors for protection.
What are the plans to get a prophet? At some point I really want the Confucian shrine up and running.
Do we want to build a second scout to head toward Brennus? Last game was hurt with pushing the wrong direction first with spies. I would like to have a general idea where we are on the map before we start sending spies out. If Brennus is the furthest west, then we may need to head the other way.
I like all the new workers that we have.
I put Bombay on axe and the time for currency went to seven turns. IMO saving 2 turns on currency isn't work 2+ axes. We have one city without garrison, and Bombay (among others) still have warriors for protection.
What are the plans to get a prophet? At some point I really want the Confucian shrine up and running.
Do we want to build a second scout to head toward Brennus? Last game was hurt with pushing the wrong direction first with spies. I would like to have a general idea where we are on the map before we start sending spies out. If Brennus is the furthest west, then we may need to head the other way.
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Okay, not sure I like the spot Varanasi is in. We are not creative and did not settle for resources first. Plus, 1s would have put more pressure on that barb city. Also, on this level, I think we should have gone Math before Currency. AIs tech slower so it will take longer to get a trade for Maths with the wonder deal as well.
Here's a dotmap so that we are clear on where to settle next - it is not meant to be definitive, just may idea on where to settle:
I assume Pigs city is next up North. Most of these new cities can be good cottage sites although Pigs has good hammer potential as well. I just threw blue in there for now - who knows what Shaka will do. There is also the matter of the fur/fish site SW, but I think SB will beat us too it. Too bad as a border pop would get us that hut.
so:
1) Settler heads up to Pigs site next turn. We still may lose it to Zara but I'll try. Delhi should continue building settlers.
2) Once Agra grows and gets improved I think it can be a worker pump. We need lots of them with all that jungle.
3) What about going for ToA in Bombay. It would add to the GP points. I'd like to get a Mon up in Vijay asap and get a Confused mish to Bombay to build a temple to run a priest.
4) I personally would switch to Math now, but I guess I'll just finish out Currency for now. Do we want to go Aeths next for marble wonders? Possible Monarchy for more happiness?
5) Overall, I'll focus on continuing to solidify our empire with settlers/workers and units. I'll look for tech trades, but I don't see any worthwhile now. Mono would be nice to have for OR but I'm not giving alpha up for it.
6) Oh, I know we want Gspies, but it might be good to at least try for 1 GS for an academy. I could run 1 spy and 2 scientists. If we get a GS great, if we get a Gspy great. Regardless, it will speed along the next great person and boost research.
edit: Early Calendar might be a nice option as well for more happiness and MoM.
edit2: If we actually do flip that barb city, I assume we don't want to keep it so that we can settle a better city 1S. We should have a setter at the ready if that happens, although that is not a priority at the moment.
edit3: Actually, getting into OR soon will help boost relations with Brennus, which could be beneficial to us. Pacal should be friendly once we both get HR.
Here's a dotmap so that we are clear on where to settle next - it is not meant to be definitive, just may idea on where to settle:
Spoiler :
I assume Pigs city is next up North. Most of these new cities can be good cottage sites although Pigs has good hammer potential as well. I just threw blue in there for now - who knows what Shaka will do. There is also the matter of the fur/fish site SW, but I think SB will beat us too it. Too bad as a border pop would get us that hut.
so:
1) Settler heads up to Pigs site next turn. We still may lose it to Zara but I'll try. Delhi should continue building settlers.
2) Once Agra grows and gets improved I think it can be a worker pump. We need lots of them with all that jungle.
3) What about going for ToA in Bombay. It would add to the GP points. I'd like to get a Mon up in Vijay asap and get a Confused mish to Bombay to build a temple to run a priest.
4) I personally would switch to Math now, but I guess I'll just finish out Currency for now. Do we want to go Aeths next for marble wonders? Possible Monarchy for more happiness?
5) Overall, I'll focus on continuing to solidify our empire with settlers/workers and units. I'll look for tech trades, but I don't see any worthwhile now. Mono would be nice to have for OR but I'm not giving alpha up for it.
6) Oh, I know we want Gspies, but it might be good to at least try for 1 GS for an academy. I could run 1 spy and 2 scientists. If we get a GS great, if we get a Gspy great. Regardless, it will speed along the next great person and boost research.
edit: Early Calendar might be a nice option as well for more happiness and MoM.
edit2: If we actually do flip that barb city, I assume we don't want to keep it so that we can settle a better city 1S. We should have a setter at the ready if that happens, although that is not a priority at the moment.
edit3: Actually, getting into OR soon will help boost relations with Brennus, which could be beneficial to us. Pacal should be friendly once we both get HR.
1) I think the map is outdated around the pigs and that it's already in Zara's possession. I skimmed past with the scout a bit to the north and IIRC by the shape of his cultural borders it looked like pigs was already taken. Still we might need to go up there for blocking purposes, not too close though as then Zara will flip us instead of vv. I must admit I really miss being creative from last game...
2) Big yes to more workers.
3) TBH I think ToA and most other wonders will be a waste of hammers at this point. I rather have even more workers and some military or even settlers from here. I don't think we're in a position yet for shiny stuff.
4) I followed roster orders by going straight currency after alpha... I think I'd just finish it, though can see the case for maths. Aesthetics sounds good to me, HR is not that badly needed yet. Would be nice if we could get calendar, though it's more a thing to trade for (when MoM is done by someone unfortunately).
5) I switched out of a religion, so (access to) OR is probably not needed at this point.
6) I proposed this as well, but roster seemed to be against it... You have my vote though.
2) Big yes to more workers.
3) TBH I think ToA and most other wonders will be a waste of hammers at this point. I rather have even more workers and some military or even settlers from here. I don't think we're in a position yet for shiny stuff.
4) I followed roster orders by going straight currency after alpha... I think I'd just finish it, though can see the case for maths. Aesthetics sounds good to me, HR is not that badly needed yet. Would be nice if we could get calendar, though it's more a thing to trade for (when MoM is done by someone unfortunately).
5) I switched out of a religion, so (access to) OR is probably not needed at this point.
6) I proposed this as well, but roster seemed to be against it... You have my vote though.
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Might as well be in OR for the diplo and then it will just be active if we switch into a religion later.
I think we could still try pressing in on the pigs. It's tight but a closer city will be more effective on Zara later.
yeah, we can always trade for calendar and MoM might not be as useful for a while since we don't want use GPs on GAs for sometime. I like Aesths > Lit. I do think we should try for some wonders in border cities.
ToA is probably about finished somewhere I imagine.
I think we could still try pressing in on the pigs. It's tight but a closer city will be more effective on Zara later.
yeah, we can always trade for calendar and MoM might not be as useful for a while since we don't want use GPs on GAs for sometime. I like Aesths > Lit. I do think we should try for some wonders in border cities.
ToA is probably about finished somewhere I imagine.
If we go aesth-lit (which is fine with me) we better also start thinking of our NE city. So far the most logical place seems Varanasi with its 3 sugars, banana, cows and lots of farmable grass. I know you generally like GLib/NE combination, which could be a possibility here. GLib might "pollute" things a bit when we hire spies, OTOH as you stated popping some GSs during the game won't hurt, for an academy and the odd bulb (philo, edu, etc).
Regarding pig, maybe it's safer to put the dot 1S. Eventually it'll have the pigs anyway and Zara's city will be reasonably close still (4th ring, or 500 culture). I'm afraid Zara will have his culture on the dot where it is, even before we have a monument...
Regarding pig, maybe it's safer to put the dot 1S. Eventually it'll have the pigs anyway and Zara's city will be reasonably close still (4th ring, or 500 culture). I'm afraid Zara will have his culture on the dot where it is, even before we have a monument...
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#1 - I agree with Nocho - watch Zara's borders. I do like the pig site next. The question is the exact location. It should also lock us to keep the spice dot to the SW of the site.
We have to be careful how we push Zara. He is creative.
#2 - I agree on worker pump concept. However, I don't like Agra. I think we have a strong production city here once we build Moai. At the bare minimum I would like whip overflow and chops going into Moai.
#3 - I agree on the second part about monastery. I don't want to try for the ToA wonder. We really need more troops, and Bombay is the perfect spot to pump them from. I won't argue with another prophet wonder in the future, but I want it from a tech we just researched.
#4 - I would like to sneak in archery for tech. We can use some cheap defense units.
We have enough invested in currency at this point, so I would like to complete that.
#5 - We are in expansion phase, so I agree on workers, setters and units.
#6 - I'm willing to hire a scientist. An academy in a high cottage city would really help. The only thing is I'm not sure if our capital is worth building it since it is primarily production. I would want it in our cottage heavy holy city.
Varanasi as a GP factory is ok for me. I prefer a GT whip spot. I missed not having a city we could whip / draft like crazy last game.
Last game we made a mistake and build GT in a high production city. Tons of irrigation, and we can whip at least every other turn with granary.
Last game EP was *not* the issue at the end - it was production and lack of spies. I prefer to think about getting more cities to build stuff with.
I still want to switch Bombay back to units NOW. I still would like a scout (from Bombay) heading toward Brennus. We really need to get an idea of the shape of the world to figure out where our first culture push target is and build appropriates.
We will need roads toward our future pig city. I would like to propose we go via the stone tile. I would like to have stone hooked up in case we have a wonder we want with a stone bonus.
We have to be careful how we push Zara. He is creative.
#2 - I agree on worker pump concept. However, I don't like Agra. I think we have a strong production city here once we build Moai. At the bare minimum I would like whip overflow and chops going into Moai.
#3 - I agree on the second part about monastery. I don't want to try for the ToA wonder. We really need more troops, and Bombay is the perfect spot to pump them from. I won't argue with another prophet wonder in the future, but I want it from a tech we just researched.
#4 - I would like to sneak in archery for tech. We can use some cheap defense units.
We have enough invested in currency at this point, so I would like to complete that.
#5 - We are in expansion phase, so I agree on workers, setters and units.
#6 - I'm willing to hire a scientist. An academy in a high cottage city would really help. The only thing is I'm not sure if our capital is worth building it since it is primarily production. I would want it in our cottage heavy holy city.
Varanasi as a GP factory is ok for me. I prefer a GT whip spot. I missed not having a city we could whip / draft like crazy last game.
Last game we made a mistake and build GT in a high production city. Tons of irrigation, and we can whip at least every other turn with granary.
Last game EP was *not* the issue at the end - it was production and lack of spies. I prefer to think about getting more cities to build stuff with.
I still want to switch Bombay back to units NOW. I still would like a scout (from Bombay) heading toward Brennus. We really need to get an idea of the shape of the world to figure out where our first culture push target is and build appropriates.
We will need roads toward our future pig city. I would like to propose we go via the stone tile. I would like to have stone hooked up in case we have a wonder we want with a stone bonus.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Thank you for your statement the moment I asked for it..
I too think we should finish currency rather than switching to math.. As it seems it could be possible to trade it after SB finished it himself.. And afterwards going aest next would be the way to go for me to get a bit closer to music!
Concerning hiring scientist: For sure a academy would help early resurch.. But as already mentioned: I think we didn't miss an academy in the last game so we won't do it this time either. So a
from me.About the wonders for culture: I'd rather use the hammers for spies than for the wonders. The last time we started too late with pushing towards our foes! Another possebility would be to get an army together to get rid of some of SB's defenders, as we're already near the 50% edge!
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Good long-term point. I change my mind, and vote for no scientist. I still would like a priest for holy-city though.Concerning hiring scientist: For sure a academy would help early resurch.. But as already mentioned: I think we didn't miss an academy in the last game so we won't do it this time either. So a
I think we will only have two of key wonders to grab.
The Sistine Chapel for a ton of specialist culture and state religion buildings to touch enemy cities faster. Really works well with SoL. We have marble, so it is only 1/2 price.
The Statue of Liberty for the free specialists. An extra spy specialist in every city is a TON of EP.
Once we have an Iron Works city late game we can talk late game wonders.
Not for at least a couple of sets. IMO we at least need catapults to consider war. Not to mention too many cardboard cutouts guarding our cities.
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I still think we can settle in Zara's face as long as it is the outer tier of his borders. We just need to focus on culture buildings asap. With pigs in the 1st ring we can overtake it sooner than later. It is a good city but lacking in resources initially. I would farm up for growth and whipping and the cottage later, although it would make a good production city as well. i would like to cottage most of that jungle area. We have plenty of good production.
I think you want to marry maoi statues
Honestly, I'd rather put it in a city that can really use it. No of those coastal sites really scream Maoi. However, if we can grab the fish/fur site we could put it there. It could more use those hammers and I usually like some seafood in a Maoi city. We must consider the hammer investment early as well even with stone. Workers/settlers/units/spies are more essential right now, although we can use worker whips to help build Maoi. ( i like maoi too - she's nice - but I build it when it's feasible)Well, I just realized ToA GM points, although it does add a free priest. Still, it might be nice for some fail gold.
As for units, we can fit some in, but it's not urgent unless we feel we are in danger. As for scouting, I think we are more than fine at present with one.
ewwww! super ewwww! dude, don't ever tech archery unless absolutely needed, especially below deity. we will get it easily in trade soon anyway. axes and chariots are pretty darn cheap
I was definitely unclear in my original statement, sorry. Did not mean to imply that I would change techs. I view Currency as the most important tech in the game, it is just that on this level it is probably best to grab Math first for the bonus and its benefit.
Answering Thy here as well: I though we did build an academy last game
Good point on where to put the academy. Our cap could probably be a decent bureau cap and the immediate benefit of the academy would be higher there. However, the academy does add culture as well which would benefit a border city. One thought is Mound City when it flips. This city can be totally cottaged, plus the 3 silks for tons of commerce. Might be a good site for it.
I agree on production and I think we have it already. I'd like to see more balance this game. Last game, there was too much hodgepodge on improvements. I see some true commerce cities here and true production cities. We do need a GP farm though. I would not call Vran ideal for it but it may work in the short term.
I think we are fine on scouting and I don't see us settling too far west at present. We need to fill out land and then focus on the clear first culture push - SB. We can work in more units here and there sure, but I don't think we need a huge army or anything at present. Barbs are certainly not an issue.
makes perfect sense (honestly, i rarely ever settle a city without a road in place first, unless there is a natural hookup)
ha...sorry, thy, I was a bit late to the party on the last turnset. Overall, it is not a bad city in the long term but not an ideal "non-creative" settle and for the variant, although we can still make it work. I guess I sound critical but I'm really just prompting the understand the thinking behind the decision.
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alright...so turnset played:
here's a tale of events in pictures
Well, since he really means it:
why not, we're going to get a lot of techs and gold from you anyway
gimme gimme:
close call:
Tech (not bad):
Diplo:
So, in summary:
1) Settled Calcutta just south of the pigs. It will be tough at first but we can make it work. The city has a completed trade route - but road is not all the way to city - wanted to get farm started asap. I fired up a Library first, ignoring a Monument, as we will get a Conf mish up there asap. However, we can always whip Mon at size 2.
2) Switch some cities from Libs to Grans (come on peoples)
3) Spread Conf to Bombay and build a CH and Temple...we can run a priest there now, but I'm trying to grow these cities a bit since we are in HR
4) Made lots of trades. One missing screenie I forgot to take is probably the largest trade with Bren for Maths, Mono, and Archery for Alpha and Monarchy
5) Finished Currency and Aesths
6) Switched to HR and OR. OR boosts relations with Bren although they are still not good. Pacal is starting to really like us a lot, which is good for trading unless shaka kills him (which may happen)
7) Gave into all demands/request...nothing earth shattering here
8) Just beat SB to the fish/fur site - Lahore.
9) Delhi and Bombay building mishes for Lahore and Calcutta
10) Delhi ran Spy/2 Scientists for much of the TS, but after HR switch I put all citizens on tiles to grow city large -then we can switch back to specialists. Actually, this turn we can switch a citizen to the river mine to get mish 1 turn early and still grow in 2t. I did not make the switch before saving.
11) Vijay had whipped a bunch of stuff this TS. Monastary whip basically completed the Temple all by itself. Then built the mish for Bombay. Also a barracks here or maybe I built that in Bombay - can't remember.
12) Note that Agra has a large amount of OF this turn for start of the CH there which is nice
13) edit: oh...i improved 1 wine for extra happy. we do want calender soon. maybe zara. however, music should be a priority
Lastly, Shaka is in Weeeehorn mode. Our scout is about finishing up I think in Mayan land so we can pull him back to follow Zulu troops. Not sure who Shaka is targeting at present.
Zara is at pleased now, but I would wait a few turns before begging gold. Wait for at least 60g.
here's a tale of events in pictures
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Well, since he really means it:
Spoiler :
why not, we're going to get a lot of techs and gold from you anyway
Spoiler :
gimme gimme:
Spoiler :
close call:
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Tech (not bad):
Spoiler :
Diplo:
Spoiler :
So, in summary:
1) Settled Calcutta just south of the pigs. It will be tough at first but we can make it work. The city has a completed trade route - but road is not all the way to city - wanted to get farm started asap. I fired up a Library first, ignoring a Monument, as we will get a Conf mish up there asap. However, we can always whip Mon at size 2.
2) Switch some cities from Libs to Grans (come on peoples)
3) Spread Conf to Bombay and build a CH and Temple...we can run a priest there now, but I'm trying to grow these cities a bit since we are in HR
4) Made lots of trades. One missing screenie I forgot to take is probably the largest trade with Bren for Maths, Mono, and Archery for Alpha and Monarchy
5) Finished Currency and Aesths
6) Switched to HR and OR. OR boosts relations with Bren although they are still not good. Pacal is starting to really like us a lot, which is good for trading unless shaka kills him (which may happen)
7) Gave into all demands/request...nothing earth shattering here
8) Just beat SB to the fish/fur site - Lahore.
9) Delhi and Bombay building mishes for Lahore and Calcutta
10) Delhi ran Spy/2 Scientists for much of the TS, but after HR switch I put all citizens on tiles to grow city large -then we can switch back to specialists. Actually, this turn we can switch a citizen to the river mine to get mish 1 turn early and still grow in 2t. I did not make the switch before saving.
11) Vijay had whipped a bunch of stuff this TS. Monastary whip basically completed the Temple all by itself. Then built the mish for Bombay. Also a barracks here or maybe I built that in Bombay - can't remember.
12) Note that Agra has a large amount of OF this turn for start of the CH there which is nice
13) edit: oh...i improved 1 wine for extra happy. we do want calender soon. maybe zara. however, music should be a priority
Lastly, Shaka is in Weeeehorn mode. Our scout is about finishing up I think in Mayan land so we can pull him back to follow Zulu troops. Not sure who Shaka is targeting at present.
Zara is at pleased now, but I would wait a few turns before begging gold. Wait for at least 60g.
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I'd like to plop a jungle city in between Calcutta and Vijay that will be almost strictly cottages for all that green. Probably should have 2 or 3 settlers at the ready for that city, for if we flip the barb city to resettle 1S and to have a settler at the ready for a commando settle. Shaka has already settled near the peaks in the east. We could try going for a city to seal the coast up North though.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I guess it is more play late ... IIRC lymond is a yankee
Looks good ... will give it a better look tonight
r_rolo1 -on deck
Thy_Spellcraft
nocho
lymond - just nabbed a city under SB nose
LKendter - UP
Looks good ... will give it a better look tonight
r_rolo1 -on deck
Thy_Spellcraft
nocho
lymond - just nabbed a city under SB nose
LKendter - UP
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I guess it is more play late ... IIRC lymond is a yankee
Yes and no, I'm from Jawja so we don't really use the term yankee to identify ourselves
i think that clock is jacked up somehow. I run some odd hours now and then but I did not play that game at 5AM. I've been using a new laptop for some games.
AJ11
Emperor
Lurker comment: Shaka is just on the other side of your empire from SB. SB is his worst enemy. I think your peasants will be seeing a Zulu procession going by, complete with ostrich feathers, fur pelts and palm leaves...
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I'd be somewhat happy with that - let two nearby people beat each other. Only thing that will suck is we WILL get negatives from not helping in war.
GOT IT!
