r_rolo1
King of myself
That is the golden rule in here. If needed go to deficit @ 100% cash... remember that this map is low sea level , so there is more land avaliable than in RR12.
RR13 - Hearts and Minds
- Thread starter r_rolo1
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My plan is to go Hunting>Masonry>AH. I think we can still get the GW pretty easily on this level and it is pretty important for us.
I'll finish the mine and then improve a phant. I would have chopped the forest first. Chop will go into settler. I'd like to get out another worker if possible but realize the settler is important. Couple of warriors too. I guess we need a scout right. Too bad we did not grab that hut just north.
I'll settle A 1W if that is what folks want. We may need to go Archery if no horses, but I'm pretty sure we have horses and if we do we should go straight to Oracle. We can build Oracle in city A as it has decent production.
I'll finish the mine and then improve a phant. I would have chopped the forest first. Chop will go into settler. I'd like to get out another worker if possible but realize the settler is important. Couple of warriors too. I guess we need a scout right. Too bad we did not grab that hut just north.
I'll settle A 1W if that is what folks want. We may need to go Archery if no horses, but I'm pretty sure we have horses and if we do we should go straight to Oracle. We can build Oracle in city A as it has decent production.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Plans sound good, but in case we want (and I think we do) GW achery seems not that important! So masonry after hunting seems a good way to go. Maybe AH would even be stronger as we'll have to build 2-3 more warriors and two settlers before GW.. So it seems sensful to get the cows up before starting with GW!
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Positive food and 3 shields are rare in Civ. For me, very hard to resist.
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Ok...British Open is over so I played on:
Finished Hunting and Masonry. AH is close.
Start GW while getting out a couple of warriors and a scout. Scout popped hut just north and unfortunately just got experience. I made him Woody II for faster scoutage.
Got a chop into the Settler. We can 2 pop him next turn for good OF into the GW and then a chop turn after into GW, which should be up promptly. After GW and settle of Site A we should get out another worker and settler. Don't need much in the way of units until we at least get more advanced units.
After AH we should make our play for Oracle. Should get up Monument in City A asap with a chop.
edit: Actually we really need TW
New dotmap:
With the new position of Site A due to the team's preference for culture pressure, I still like Site B in the original location. It would leave some good tiles completely unused forever and Site B will be excellent production for units and spies. Site C is decent and could be located elsewhere like on the wine, but I figure its position puts us closer to whomever might be up north. X and Y are still dependent on viewing what is in the sea.
Finished Hunting and Masonry. AH is close.
Start GW while getting out a couple of warriors and a scout. Scout popped hut just north and unfortunately just got experience. I made him Woody II for faster scoutage.
Got a chop into the Settler. We can 2 pop him next turn for good OF into the GW and then a chop turn after into GW, which should be up promptly. After GW and settle of Site A we should get out another worker and settler. Don't need much in the way of units until we at least get more advanced units.
After AH we should make our play for Oracle. Should get up Monument in City A asap with a chop.
edit: Actually we really need TW
New dotmap:
Spoiler :
With the new position of Site A due to the team's preference for culture pressure, I still like Site B in the original location. It would leave some good tiles completely unused forever and Site B will be excellent production for units and spies. Site C is decent and could be located elsewhere like on the wine, but I figure its position puts us closer to whomever might be up north. X and Y are still dependent on viewing what is in the sea.
Got it. I'll have a look at the save this evening and likely will play tomorrow (36 hrs from now).
Main question for now: are we in full agreement on the position of "A"? The new spot definitely is preferrable to the former one, but rolo and indeed myself preferred 1N of the current dot (1W of cow). I can't read into the head of the king of Portugal, so I don't know his reasons, but my main concern is that with A as in the last dotmap, we need 5.000 culture in the city before reaching Cahokia, whereas 1W of cow only requires 500. Question ofc is whether that is really an issue before serious spy work starts. The proposed spot indeed has the advantage of marble in the BFC which is nice for Oracle (and subsequent wonders). Then again placing the city 1 more north makes it a very good cottage place. Well, both spots have their pros and cons, but I want to make sure we're all on the same page here.
Main question for now: are we in full agreement on the position of "A"? The new spot definitely is preferrable to the former one, but rolo and indeed myself preferred 1N of the current dot (1W of cow). I can't read into the head of the king of Portugal, so I don't know his reasons, but my main concern is that with A as in the last dotmap, we need 5.000 culture in the city before reaching Cahokia, whereas 1W of cow only requires 500. Question ofc is whether that is really an issue before serious spy work starts. The proposed spot indeed has the advantage of marble in the BFC which is nice for Oracle (and subsequent wonders). Then again placing the city 1 more north makes it a very good cottage place. Well, both spots have their pros and cons, but I want to make sure we're all on the same page here.
vranasm
Deity
to me the spot as is was better due to having wheat and cows in 1st ring, making the city very strong from start.
But I understand the issue with culture and won't oppose moving it 1N.
Marble is "non-issue" imo, since for Oracle (and I will only repeat myself here) detour for masonry holds you back more then moves you forward and for getting marble wonders we surely will have marble "in time".
But I understand the issue with culture and won't oppose moving it 1N.
Marble is "non-issue" imo, since for Oracle (and I will only repeat myself here) detour for masonry holds you back more then moves you forward and for getting marble wonders we surely will have marble "in time".
Thy_Spellcraft
King
I too would rather take the spot 1N.We wanted to start pushing a way earlier than the last time. Therefore we should rather put it 1N!
Concerning Oracle: I'd even leave it behind for a way faster landgrab! Let's run for GW but let's keep REXing!!
Concerning Oracle: I'd even leave it behind for a way faster landgrab! Let's run for GW but let's keep REXing!!
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Oracle is the least of my concerns. If we lose it, who cares. NA still appear the only nearby civ, so we really need to push north hard.
Hopefully some sea food in the fog so that we can build some decent coastal cities. I felt we ignored Moai to long last game.
I prefer A where is currently is - right between Cow and wheat. This will be a high production city, and I'm not worried about culture to NA capitol. At this point we don't even know if NA is our first target!
We will need push cities, but we first need a few STRONG cities. A in current spot is STRONG.
Hopefully some sea food in the fog so that we can build some decent coastal cities. I felt we ignored Moai to long last game.
I prefer A where is currently is - right between Cow and wheat. This will be a high production city, and I'm not worried about culture to NA capitol. At this point we don't even know if NA is our first target!
We will need push cities, but we first need a few STRONG cities. A in current spot is STRONG.
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V - We already have Masonry
I agree too that we need to look at having stronger cities. I understand the need for culture pressure, but having a stronger city may in the long run increase our chances of applying pressure.
I would like to build Oracle in City A. This will increase the culture output in that city, allow us to get a religion for more culture buildings, and fast CoL means faster CHs for more EPs. Ofc, Oracle in City A will eliminate GPP pollution in our cap for the Great Spy.
I agree too that we need to look at having stronger cities. I understand the need for culture pressure, but having a stronger city may in the long run increase our chances of applying pressure.
I would like to build Oracle in City A. This will increase the culture output in that city, allow us to get a religion for more culture buildings, and fast CoL means faster CHs for more EPs. Ofc, Oracle in City A will eliminate GPP pollution in our cap for the Great Spy.
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And we would build Oracle earlier enough in "A" for the CP to double in the BC time frame. We only need to get 1 point into NA capitol. 
Phase one is strong production and economy cities - we are in phase 1. When natural expansion is over, we can worry about the culture push.
So far our challenge is the cities for economy. A is mostly production with some cash from rivers. Now if we found a religion, and get a priest...
Phase one is strong production and economy cities - we are in phase 1. When natural expansion is over, we can worry about the culture push.
So far our challenge is the cities for economy. A is mostly production with some cash from rivers. Now if we found a religion, and get a priest...
Plan.
Next turn 2 pop whip settler into GW, which also receives the chop. Then we have about 50h left to go, so not entirely sure if we should chop another forest to make sure we get GW or immediately start pasturing the cow. If we're confident we get GW anyway, I'd rather pasture first and start improving city 2 instead of the extra chop. Or direct that chop to an extra worker later, so city can grow beforehand while still on GW. Anyway, ideally at size 4 we finish GW and continue worker, settler.
New city will start a monument, wherever we found it.
Wouldn't mind getting some more opinions... @LK, with 1N we get 4 grass and 1FP, all riverside, as compared to 3 plains and 2 tundra tiles (though all riverside as well), but with marble on one of those. The former gives a lot more cottage potential while having enough hammers to get its infra up, besides being better placed for Cahokia. I'm not sure if throwing away all that potential commerce is worth the extra hammers from marble, more so if you're uninterested in marble for the Oracle. Oracle would be my main reason for A where it is over 1N of it... With marble online it could build it rather quickly I think. And we do want CoL asap, I presume.
Tech: finish AH, then wheel. If we go for Oracle, we should go med, PH. Otherwise I guess pottery and writing are in order.
Next turn 2 pop whip settler into GW, which also receives the chop. Then we have about 50h left to go, so not entirely sure if we should chop another forest to make sure we get GW or immediately start pasturing the cow. If we're confident we get GW anyway, I'd rather pasture first and start improving city 2 instead of the extra chop. Or direct that chop to an extra worker later, so city can grow beforehand while still on GW. Anyway, ideally at size 4 we finish GW and continue worker, settler.
New city will start a monument, wherever we found it.
Wouldn't mind getting some more opinions... @LK, with 1N we get 4 grass and 1FP, all riverside, as compared to 3 plains and 2 tundra tiles (though all riverside as well), but with marble on one of those. The former gives a lot more cottage potential while having enough hammers to get its infra up, besides being better placed for Cahokia. I'm not sure if throwing away all that potential commerce is worth the extra hammers from marble, more so if you're uninterested in marble for the Oracle. Oracle would be my main reason for A where it is over 1N of it... With marble online it could build it rather quickly I think. And we do want CoL asap, I presume.Tech: finish AH, then wheel. If we go for Oracle, we should go med, PH. Otherwise I guess pottery and writing are in order.
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Good point - I change my vote to 1N for "A".New city will start a monument, wherever we found it.
It slows down wheat access, but not that big a deal with monument.
We are still on river, and we get more commerce. Our core will need to be high income in order to support at the small towns later.
If "A" builds Oracle, we really need another worker as worker one MUST follow the settler and start to improve "A" to ensure Oracle.
It is still a ways off, but I really want US to build the AP. We learned how powerful it was last game. We got one city from Persia, one from Mansa, and gave Wang -5 for happiness.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ok, fair enough ... go to lymond's A
On the AP: I've read the code and , according to my reading, Wang would not defy the resolution for his cap for the 2nd time in RR12
Anyway, not sure if we want to build it ... going Theo 
and building the thing ( it has no speeding resources , remember ) But building it is a insurance that we will control it. it would be extremely nice to not have to fight SB uber promoted garrisons 
On the AP: I've read the code and , according to my reading, Wang would not defy the resolution for his cap for the 2nd time in RR12
Anyway, not sure if we want to build it ... going Theo and building the thing ( it has no speeding resources , remember ) But building it is a insurance that we will control it. it would be extremely nice to not have to fight SB uber promoted garrisons vranasm
Deity
oops
forgot that ;-)as for the AP... if we get GP we could bulb Theo...
and btw don't forget to build AP we have to run some religion...
If I remember correctly it would be for us the most benefit if this religion is state religion of our targets? There was somewhere discussion about the cost reduction and I think it was stated that there is good cost reduction for having the same religion.
