stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
I'm on holiday until the 11th, so if it gets to me in the meantime, skip please
RSG03 (Deity) - Random Attempt at Redemption
- Thread starter Sir Bugsy
- Start date
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Since we unexpectedly lost a week there with the forum shutdown, would you still like to play?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
With great anticipation, at that! Where were we at? Cannons ASAP, then Oxford for artillery is the one solid memory I have of this.
Any opinions on how much we should delve into musketeers vs infrastructure while we can? I really like writer's guild in the capital since it's so food-rich.
Will play tomorrow first thing.
Any opinions on how much we should delve into musketeers vs infrastructure while we can? I really like writer's guild in the capital since it's so food-rich.
Will play tomorrow first thing.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Plan
Writer's guild, universities, what tidbits of infrastructure we really need, and 2 knights. Then, on to armories and cannons.
140, Pre-flight
Sur-Sinaï queues a barrack, Grenoble queues a university. Sur-Nil switched from trebuchet to Writer's guild. Up 1 CC to knight.
IBT: Ash throws a pissing contest and Venice tells us Pacha would back him up.
T 141:
Rotate troops to cover workers, Ash has a few longswords and pikemen.
IBT: Wittenberg is in the mood to be bought - alas, they're just a pious CS
T 142:
IBT: Ramssess completes Pisa
T 143:
IBT: Wittenberg is in the mood to be bought - alas, they're just a pious CS. Gain friendly influence from a science quest on 2 CSs: Tyre (commercial) and Kiev (cultural).
T 144:
GS from Sur-Sinaï! We get a brand new academy.
The old copper deal from Ash falls so I try and compensate with trades. Venice will sell their gems and I make a cash deal for it. Ash won't even consider an embassy unless we pay him, so we know what's up. Screw that embassy is what's up.
Caravan to Thebes: it's both the most lucrative and the only one that hasn't flat-out confirmed they'll attack.
IBT: York now down to 1/4 HP. That's when brave sir Ashurbanipal chooses to declare war on Elizabeth.
T 145:
Tech to steal: easy choice.
Move the spy to Cusco.
IBT: Trouble in paradise: Zulu and Assyrians denounce each other
T 146:
Make a lux deal with Shaka, 1:1
Cusco has high unemployment despite massive efforts at juicing up the tourism industry:
And we share a snippet of info with Ramssess, about Pacha wanting his head too.
T 147:
Caravan to Cusco despite Venice saying they are plotting against us. There is hope yet on that front.
IBT: Holy crap, Ash!!! That puts our horse balance in the red.
T 148:
Look for horses, the only ones that are readily available are Elizabeth's and they are 4gpt a piece. Not now sweetie.
We have a GG ourselves with which we could steal all of it back and gain not 1 but 2 citadels. However, that means war time, and against great wall, that also means 2 turns.
T 149:
IBT: York falls to the Zulus. That Ash-Shaka face-off (the Ashka war?) is looming.
Really nice city with univ + jungle pantheon.
T 150:
Sur-Sinaï just completed its barracks. A musket is up but it might as well be an armory or a cannon. There was a trebuchet underway in Nil when I took over, so it's being completed now, but Nil still lacks a workshop (and then barracks).
Notes:
Shaka and Ash have denounced each other and we know Ash is coming. I say we denounce Ash for brownie points w/ Shaka. Big wars are coming.
We have 200 faith: time to spend. I'd get a pagoda or mosque.
Writer's guild, universities, what tidbits of infrastructure we really need, and 2 knights. Then, on to armories and cannons.
140, Pre-flight
Sur-Sinaï queues a barrack, Grenoble queues a university. Sur-Nil switched from trebuchet to Writer's guild. Up 1 CC to knight.
IBT: Ash throws a pissing contest and Venice tells us Pacha would back him up.
T 141:
Rotate troops to cover workers, Ash has a few longswords and pikemen.
IBT: Wittenberg is in the mood to be bought - alas, they're just a pious CS
T 142:
IBT: Ramssess completes Pisa
T 143:
IBT: Wittenberg is in the mood to be bought - alas, they're just a pious CS. Gain friendly influence from a science quest on 2 CSs: Tyre (commercial) and Kiev (cultural).
T 144:
GS from Sur-Sinaï! We get a brand new academy.
The old copper deal from Ash falls so I try and compensate with trades. Venice will sell their gems and I make a cash deal for it. Ash won't even consider an embassy unless we pay him, so we know what's up. Screw that embassy is what's up.
Caravan to Thebes: it's both the most lucrative and the only one that hasn't flat-out confirmed they'll attack.
IBT: York now down to 1/4 HP. That's when brave sir Ashurbanipal chooses to declare war on Elizabeth.
T 145:
Tech to steal: easy choice.
Spoiler :
Move the spy to Cusco.
IBT: Trouble in paradise: Zulu and Assyrians denounce each other
T 146:
Make a lux deal with Shaka, 1:1
Cusco has high unemployment despite massive efforts at juicing up the tourism industry:
Spoiler Cusco :
And we share a snippet of info with Ramssess, about Pacha wanting his head too.
T 147:
Caravan to Cusco despite Venice saying they are plotting against us. There is hope yet on that front.
IBT: Holy crap, Ash!!! That puts our horse balance in the red.
T 148:
Look for horses, the only ones that are readily available are Elizabeth's and they are 4gpt a piece. Not now sweetie.
We have a GG ourselves with which we could steal all of it back and gain not 1 but 2 citadels. However, that means war time, and against great wall, that also means 2 turns.
T 149:
IBT: York falls to the Zulus. That Ash-Shaka face-off (the Ashka war?) is looming.
Really nice city with univ + jungle pantheon.
T 150:
Sur-Sinaï just completed its barracks. A musket is up but it might as well be an armory or a cannon. There was a trebuchet underway in Nil when I took over, so it's being completed now, but Nil still lacks a workshop (and then barracks).
Notes:
Shaka and Ash have denounced each other and we know Ash is coming. I say we denounce Ash for brownie points w/ Shaka. Big wars are coming.
We have 200 faith: time to spend. I'd get a pagoda or mosque.
Spoiler Overview :
Spoiler F6 :
Spoiler F9 :
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Well done. Looks like Jan gets to prep us for war.
janmagn <= UP!
Olodune
Stormtrooper - on holiday until the 11th
Consentient
Bugs
Beorn <= just played
janmagn <= UP!
Olodune
Stormtrooper - on holiday until the 11th
Consentient
Bugs
Beorn <= just played
Acken
Deity
2 units can capture sur-Sinaï next turn. I go see Ash and he's all like "Sure, this war is foolish. Let me write that down on my tablet, for posterity"
Spoiler :
He takes white peace.
Just wanted to note that the AI will ALWAYS take white peace if it wants any kind of peace at all. So if it wants to end the war by getting all your cities it will accept a white peace instead.
This is a bug due to a loophole in the DealAI.
Good luck anyway this game appears to be pretty tough
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
What do you mean by "white peace"?
Acken
Deity
Peace without any loss to either party. Both side of the deal having only "Peace Treaty" if you will. The AI is programmed to ask for stuff when it is winning (or when it believes it is winning) so when you click "What would make the offer fair" in a peace agreement the AI will add stuff like gold or cities to the losing side.
But because of a bug the AI will actually always accept if you remove everything and click propose (or even if you propose a white peace right away without asking it to balance it).
Just wanted to note it. It's a widely used bug (myself included). But it seems to me it was the case considering the situation Grenoble was in that I'm doubtful the AI truly wanted white peace (if you ask it to balance the deal) and since you have a "No exploit rule" I wanted to raise awareness.
But because of a bug the AI will actually always accept if you remove everything and click propose (or even if you propose a white peace right away without asking it to balance it).
Just wanted to note it. It's a widely used bug (myself included). But it seems to me it was the case considering the situation Grenoble was in that I'm doubtful the AI truly wanted white peace (if you ask it to balance the deal) and since you have a "No exploit rule" I wanted to raise awareness.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Thank you for that explanation Acken.
Now that we know about it, I think it would be an exploit. If we didn't know about it at the time of our peace treaty with Assyrian, then I wouldn't call it an exploit.
Now that we know about it, I think it would be an exploit. If we didn't know about it at the time of our peace treaty with Assyrian, then I wouldn't call it an exploit.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Definitely not intended, mostly just dumbfounded and deliriously glad he spared us. Merci!
consentient
Domination!
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2014
- Messages
- 3,361
I'm back, so if you want, I can join back in the effort.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Looks like Jan hasn't checked in. Let's do this. Either Olodune or Consentient can pick it up next.
consentient
Domination!
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2014
- Messages
- 3,361
On second thoughts, after I loaded this up, I saw how poor the position was and changed my mind.
I recommend that you guys start a new game. This one is not going well.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Before we call it quits on this game, I would like to do a few things.
1. Does everyone on the team want to call it quits as well?
2. What went wrong? In the corporate world this is called a "postmortem" - why did the patient, or product, or in this case game, die?
3. What should we have done differently?
Lurkers please feel free to help out.
1. Does everyone on the team want to call it quits as well?
2. What went wrong? In the corporate world this is called a "postmortem" - why did the patient, or product, or in this case game, die?
3. What should we have done differently?
Lurkers please feel free to help out.
consentient
Domination!
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2014
- Messages
- 3,361
In all honesty, this was a tough map to start with. Being sandwiched between Ash (who would have attacked 9 times out of 10 regardless) and Pachacuti (who isn't adverse to being a tosser either) was never going to be any fun.
I think that early scouting was poor, and diplomacy was a bit patchy, and the economy was ignored so that when we wanted to do bribes, we couldn't. We should also have courted Shaka's favour much earlier and used him to sort out Ash for us.
But then we're ignoring the main thing which is that we changed strategies completely from Tall Peaceful to a Domination attempt.
So I'd say it was
50% a hard map with a close nasty neighbour and - all things considered - NO really good city locations
30% overlooking scouting, and early diplomacy and economy
20% changing strategies (we had to do it but it never comes without a cost)
Had I played the game myself I would have quit and re-rolled cuz I just don't like maps that are so loaded against the player. Had I forced myself to persist I would have gone 3 city Liberty and joined Ash in a war against whoever (Pacha maybe) or held him off with CBs until Machinery.
I also make it a habit to almost never lift a finger to do anything to do with religion.
But the thing about these succession games that make things interesting is the blend of play styles.
Like I said, the major thing working against us was a tough map.
Stormtrooper convinced me to stay on here at CFC and play a bit more, so if you decide to bin this game and start a new one and would like to have me on board, I'd be honoured.
I hope my dissection is of some use
I think that early scouting was poor, and diplomacy was a bit patchy, and the economy was ignored so that when we wanted to do bribes, we couldn't. We should also have courted Shaka's favour much earlier and used him to sort out Ash for us.
But then we're ignoring the main thing which is that we changed strategies completely from Tall Peaceful to a Domination attempt.
So I'd say it was
50% a hard map with a close nasty neighbour and - all things considered - NO really good city locations
30% overlooking scouting, and early diplomacy and economy
20% changing strategies (we had to do it but it never comes without a cost)
Had I played the game myself I would have quit and re-rolled cuz I just don't like maps that are so loaded against the player. Had I forced myself to persist I would have gone 3 city Liberty and joined Ash in a war against whoever (Pacha maybe) or held him off with CBs until Machinery.
I also make it a habit to almost never lift a finger to do anything to do with religion.
But the thing about these succession games that make things interesting is the blend of play styles.
Like I said, the major thing working against us was a tough map.
Stormtrooper convinced me to stay on here at CFC and play a bit more, so if you decide to bin this game and start a new one and would like to have me on board, I'd be honoured.
I hope my dissection is of some use
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
For my part, I've never had any success at Deity without conquering early. It's a crutch, I know it and I'm here willing to learn otherwise, but in a sense that disqualifies me from a worthy opinion on this game's postmortem.
Consent's take makes alot of sense, too. Had I played this solo, it would have boiled down to taking Cusco sub-T100, regrouping for a (better founded) arti rush at Ash - or folding.
Consent's take makes alot of sense, too. Had I played this solo, it would have boiled down to taking Cusco sub-T100, regrouping for a (better founded) arti rush at Ash - or folding.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
Yeah I'm all for restarting. Domination is done best or at least the only I know how by a CB/XB rush and then buckle down and Arty push towards. However, Assyria would be tough to break down anyway so the safest option would have been to hope they and Zulus weaken each other.
I honestly don't know if we could have done *much* better, the map itself was a dud, 4th city was a must but we couldn't fit it anywhere, and that already caused the switch to plan B
I honestly don't know if we could have done *much* better, the map itself was a dud, 4th city was a must but we couldn't fit it anywhere, and that already caused the switch to plan B
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