I'm kinda new, playing Monarch (normal, fractal, England-Elizabeth). I want to get a cultural victory and I've got a killer starting site (on ocean, but only 4 water sites, incl. 2 crab, copper in capital), but I'm sharing an island with Shaka. Is there a good guide to axe rushing after BTS? I've starting the game several times, but I cannot get my axes to him before his becomes too entrenched in his capital w/ archers. In the meantime, I'm losing soooo much money surrounding his capital (lone city) with 15+ axemen (who cannot get the job done) that I loose all technology momentum. Is it possible to send in a spy to cause revolt (reducing city defense)? Do people do that with axe rushes? Thanks.
Rushing in BTS
- Thread starter FeynmanM
- Start date
Did you already read the benchmark guide, Sisiutil's "The Early Rush"? 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=244075
It's possible, but it comes much later. Never with axe rushes.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=244075
It's possible, but it comes much later. Never with axe rushes.
If you can build spies, it's too late for an axe rush.
Pictures say a lot. But with BFC copper, assuming he's not too far away, you should be able to just build 10 axes in your cap with whips and chops, and declare on him. He should be able to get more than about 3 or 4 archers in his cap if you go fast. Then once you get his cap, then take out his other cities.
As for a guide, there are a few. Do a forum search for axe rush and you should find some.
Pictures say a lot. But with BFC copper, assuming he's not too far away, you should be able to just build 10 axes in your cap with whips and chops, and declare on him. He should be able to get more than about 3 or 4 archers in his cap if you go fast. Then once you get his cap, then take out his other cities.
As for a guide, there are a few. Do a forum search for axe rush and you should find some.
I did read Sisutal's guide, every word (thanks!), and I had a lot of confidence coming out of it. I can stop his expansion (taking workers, killing settlers, etc), but I cannot take his capital (which does sit on a hill). I use 2 workers, chop and whip the heck out of my capital, generating an axeman every 1.5 turns. I end up being like 15 axemen against his 4 archers, but my guys totally get wiped. I can completely stifle his development, but its too expensive. Distance from my capital may be the problem, taking about 5 move to get to his front door (and I do have a road there).
Absolute Zero
Settler
That shouldn't be happening...3 axes is more than enough to take out 1 archer and you have almost a 4:1 ratio. If you attack with all your axes on the same turn, you should be able to take the city, no problem.
ABigCivFan
Emperor
Did you have a barracks first and attacked with City Raider promoted Axe?
If so, you'd be mistaken in the choice of your promotions.
An enemy capital on a hill usually means your attackers should have combat promotions rather than CR.
Defending archer's bonusses (%): 25 hill, 25 archer+hill, 50 archer+city, 25 fortify (at least some of them), 40 culture (most likely), probably also 20 or even 45 CG I/II, since Shaka builds his Ikhandas early.
So let's say the archer ends up with 185% bonusses.
CR doesn't actually give you a bonus, it's a malus for the defender, so he ends up with 165%, strength 7.95 against 5 for your axeman.
Choose C I instead - which actually gives you a 10% bonus -, and you get 8.55 to 5.5. Still bad, but much better.
CR is sadly only good when the city defenders have limited bonusses.
(Hope the calculations are at least roughly correct, I didn't double-check.)
I think you meant to say that CR is only good when the city defenders have limited bonusses (melee units in the early game instead of archers), which is not identical to weakly defended.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=352842 is the best technical axe/chariot rush guide on the site.
You get a 3rd worker with an axe rush, though, and you're usually better off getting the second worker in the capital while the second city grows to a bit.
CR1 is equal to combat at around 100% bonus (-20% of 200% defense is 10%, combat is a 10% bonus). Obviously CR3 is much better than combat 3 even against not weakly defended cities.
The sacrificial wave of axemen vs 100%+ bonus archers should be combat 1 over city raider. But once you have good odds to win a battle, you should go with the slightly lower odds CR1 so you can get CR2.
You get a 3rd worker with an axe rush, though, and you're usually better off getting the second worker in the capital while the second city grows to a bit.
CR1 is equal to combat at around 100% bonus (-20% of 200% defense is 10%, combat is a 10% bonus). Obviously CR3 is much better than combat 3 even against not weakly defended cities.
The sacrificial wave of axemen vs 100%+ bonus archers should be combat 1 over city raider. But once you have good odds to win a battle, you should go with the slightly lower odds CR1 so you can get CR2.
So tonight on the fourth attempt, I had success. I went in with 12 instead of 15 axes (a bit ealier) and perhaps more importantly, I didn't waste time along the way taking out his settler/archer and a stealing a worker. I took out the capital plus 2 other cities, with about 6 (injured) axes remaining... and I did it before reading the promotion advice on this page... so they had CR I, not C I. Thanks, folks, the island is mine!
This is certainly more important.
When you declare war, you want to take the enemy capital (or other core cities) as quickly as possible. Don't even waste a single turn, or you will most likely face an additional defender.
(This goes for any war, but its even more important for an early rush.)
The key is not worrying about those useless archer/settler combos. You waste units.
In the worst case, they go build a city on a hill, and it gets to 20% culture before you can get back to it. Oh no - if you planned your war right, you should have an extra axe or 2 coming from your cap as backup to grab that, and you take the leftovers from your other war. You'll still have pretty solid odds, and if you're lucky, you might capture a city in a good spot.
In the worst case, they go build a city on a hill, and it gets to 20% culture before you can get back to it. Oh no - if you planned your war right, you should have an extra axe or 2 coming from your cap as backup to grab that, and you take the leftovers from your other war. You'll still have pretty solid odds, and if you're lucky, you might capture a city in a good spot.
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