S-02 Learning to Ride

[sooooo]

Nice job with the trading and the combat. Sounds like we didn't take many losses at all. Mike p is up to take London.

Cosmichail
Kikinit - Just Played
mike p - UP
Asperge
blid
sooooo

Sounds like we need to get some money to pay for our empire. We should head to code of laws IMO. Can't look at the save yet, but can we trade/extort for the religious prerequisites for CoL (priesthood etc)? If not, then we can go there via currency. I wouldn't continue research on calendar. Also we should cottage the capital.

 

[angeleyes]

Here some criticism meant to crush Kikinit's ego..oh no no it's positive and constructive Why do you like those faces so much? They eat food and do nothing. I would whip them away. Also build a library in our capital and give it 2 scientists, it has to much food. And taking Canterbury before London is indeed a strange move.

I agree with Kikinit on calender. Our city's can grow with 2 citizens, even 3 when we concur another english city. Otherwise we should probably wait untill both Hatshy and Louis have it. But if you don't want to research it yourself, i would prefer currency above COL, it gives you direct gold, and we have still other things to build than those ugly courthouses.

 

[namliaM]

Currency is a good way to get more cash ASAP... I on the other hand agree with skipping London... To thin an attack force atm imho.

Canterburry is in a nice enough spot, river a few hills and grass allround... a bit close to london tho... I think you guys need to take out Lizzy now, raze if you have to... but take her out now....

 

[Cosmichail]

We could use calender for happiness/growth as our cities are growing fast. I am impressed how fast the playing is to focus on the positive. I always say it's just a game but knew Asperge would come up with something to cry about.

I doesn't matter about Canterbury just let's go for London. Yeah we'll loose HA's but we are war and should try. I like that Lizzy pulled out two archers with settler in York and making it easy for us.

Personally I just don't like turning off-growth on because 9 of ten times it gets forgotten and the city doesn't grow when it can. I am not a great fan of whipping either but when you get unhappy don't have much choice. I agree that the capital should be left alone and maybe a religion will spread to us and we can build a temple there too. With happiness spices it would give the ability to grow considerably.

Also are we considering literature at any point for TGLibrary as that will give us a huge boost in science. It's another the AI doesn't get to fast and we should start soon if we want the Great Library. I like St. Petes for it because of gold/cottages that are producing commerce already and good production but also think Moscow is a good place.

OH on a funnier note I have appointed Asperge as Minister of Criticism, Minister of silence is "erhmmm" an incorrect application. Silence what silence. Silence is golden but all I hear is noise. (Cos covers ears and goes LALALALALALALA I don't hear you.)

 

[sooooo]

Why do you like those faces so much? They eat food and do nothing. I would whip them away.

They're only mad because they were whipped too much previously. I agree with Kikinit not whipping the capital and letting the angry faces (that only last 10 turns) turn into happy ones. Take care about the iron tile. If the capital needs production at any given moment, it should work the iron. If not then obviously make St Pete work it.

Kikinit took Canterbury because he did not have sufficient forces at the time to take London and we suffered no losses while taking canterbury. Now we have reinforcements we're fine to take London. I see no problem with that decision.

 

[Cosmichail]

Sooooo

So true you said it earlier that when a player is in the heat of things they have to make decisions based on current situation and that's what Kikinit did. I only whipped once to reduce pop so it should have been gone in the middle of Kikinit's turn but St. Petes grew beyond 5. Once we get some happy stuff happening we can grow a lot more which will make a big difference.

 

[Kikinit]

I let the capital grow out to its maximum size and it's not yet in a whipping position. I'd rather stagnate growth than whip it as it is producing units that can be done in a few turns only. When it goes back to buildings there may be more reason to whip it.

I was building a granary in our city to the NE of our capital so it can be whipped and there are some other cities that may be able to be whipped. Novgorod I don't think should be whipped as it will be working a lot of cottages and will hurt us with the lost commerce if we whip. I didn't concentrate on what I could whip but I generally don't whip for units unless they will take a very long time to finish on their own.

Think of the red faces as whips in the bank. . To be used in the future when there is more need.

The decision to take Canterbury as mentioned is because I didn't have the forces to take London and it was an easy diversion whilst I was waiting to get more forces together for our assault on London.

 

[mike p]

I must admit, my 10 turns were entirely uninspiring.

350BC After poking around a bit, I must say that Canterbury really sucks. I'd have razed it myself.

325BC I kill a couple of archers outside of London. I also whip out a Horse Archer in St. Pete's in order to get a fourth for an assault on Nottingham, which is defended by only two archers and has a worker and is in range of Bananans, Sugar, Horses, and Cows. It's a better site than London, actually.

275BC I pick off another archer outside of London.

250BC I get a HA killed attacking another archer Lizzie sent on the move. We were over 75% odds, but I'll get him next turn.

225BC We lose the battle of Nottingham, decisively. Three horse archers dead, no English killed, but I did manage to give one of their archers a nice City Garrison promotion.

Also trade HBR to Hatty for Meditation and Polytheism. If we're going for CoL, we need a few prereqs first.

100BC I hit enter one to many times and start the next turnset, in my haste to discover Calendar. I've selected Literature, but that's not set in stone, obviously. Speaking of stone, we may want to squeeze a settler out to grab the stone and flood plains to our west before the French take it.

So in summary, I traded 4 Horse Achers for 5 or 6 English Archers, which is pretty crappy. We might want to pillage all the hills around London, since she's popping out a new archer every two turns.

Two workers are in position to build a plantation on the spices. Recommend they double time it to help with the unhappiness. A third worker is ready to go on the silk by York.

 

[angeleyes]

I think it's better for everyone that i stop playing this game. It seems i'm annoying everyone with my remarks, especially cosmichail, but i don't like playing this game if i can't give some criticism. Maybe it's just the way i put it into words. But imo if you take a game really seriously, it gives you much more fun than just playing and see what comes. Sooooo thank you for hosting.

Namlian is up!

 

[sooooo]

Asperge: Resignation request denied. You're staying right here. I really apreciate your comments and insight. For example in S-01 you were the one that insisted in the heroic epic in the capital and the great library elsewhere, and it worked out perfectly. You're UP!

Cosmichail
Kikinit
mike p - Just played
Asperge - UP
blid - On Deck
sooooo

 

[Cosmichail]

Asperge

I hope haven't offended you. I was just playing around. I don't care about your criticism in fact you make excellent points. It's just we are all human and err/forget and I certainly take the game seriously and want to play to the best of my ability. I do recall that in S-01 about the Heroic Epic and GL and indeed it did work out fine. Kom nou, als je het geeft dan moet het ook kunnen nemen. Zo is het in leven.

Your reaction is surprising but understood. Don't take it out on the rest of the team if you are upset with me. They didn't really say much other than Soooo defending Kikinit. Which I have to say Soooo has shown to have good leadership qualities by motivating team players with positive reinforcement.

So please don't leave the team, I also enjoy your insights and was again just joking around.

 

[angeleyes]

OK i've given it a thought and went on with it. And after all it was an exciting turnset.

My strategie was simple: buil up enough forces to attack London, and in the turns before pillage it to hamper production, so i've pillaged the cow, the hills and even a village because it's my purpose to make it the heroic epic city since our other city's all have cottages.

With two turns left i had surrounded Londen with 10 horse archers, even the last h.a. in canterbury has left the city to help and to allure 1 or 2 archers to come out of the city

next turn, one archer left the city:

10 horse archers against 4 archers:

HA (fl,fl,c) 23% loses to archer, stays (3/3)
HA (c,c,c) 32% loses to archer, (1,9/3)
HA (c,c,c) 32% loses to archer, (2,4/3)
HA (c,c) 27% loses to archer, (1,9/3)
HA (c,c) 29% loses to archer, (2,5/3)
HA ( c) 47% loses to archer, (0,8/3)

4 HA's left, and 4 archer's left..

HA (c) 48% loses to archer (0,3/3)
HA (c) 73% defeats archer , HA (4,8/6)
HA (c) 74% defeats archer , HA (3,2/6) (
HA (c,m) 99% defeats archer , HA unscratched

well, that was the fighting for this turn , not one surprise.....

next (last) turn:

HA (c,m) 72% defeats last archer.

In my last turn Novgorod got a cause of WW

save them

We've literature, and almost currency

I've put Moscow on national epic,
Novgorod on great library,
propose London > heroic epic

 

[sooooo]

Peace, peace!

Glad we've got London. That turnset and those combat odds show that the age of the horse archer is probably over. But it's good that we've swallowed a civ during it. Now to tech along to Guilds, where the age of the knight shall begin! Of course we should still build a few horse archers to stop Louis getting any ideas. One thing I was thinking about also was getting the free artist from music (if it's still available). Music is a pre-req for our UU and the artist can be used for nationalism, also a pre-req.

Cosmichail
Kikinit
mike p
Asperge - Just Played
blid - UP
sooooo - On Deck

P.S: Glad to have you back on the saddle Asperge

 

[namliaM]

Kom nou, als je het geeft dan moet het ook kunnen nemen. Zo is het in leven.

Give and take... Are there so many dutchmen here that we can talk dutch

propose London > heroic epic

Way to go Asperge, keep it going... Isnt London a bit low on production for HE? Maybe if you keep some forest around and lumbermill them? Why pick London?

If you can pick up Music and the artist... Then beeline for MT, skipping Guilds for now... The earlier you get them, the better they are. You may need to raze some cities to keep your economy afloat or switch to a specialist economy...

 

[blid]

EDIT : double POST

 

[blid]

I check and Liz has nothing to offer for peace. I am reluctant to sign now. Press enter

IBT : an english archer suicides against HA in Canterburry (attack cross river ). We also take another point of WW though we have not lost any unit :argh:

To cope with the unhappiness, I convert to judaism. Rostov and Novgorod are already jewish and a jewish missionary is StPet (thanks Louis). Maybe it is not a bad idea to befriending the narcissic guy (at least for the moment)

I trade alphabet for mono and money since Hatty already knows alphabet

Liz sent yet another archer pair escorted settler

I wait for them to go on flat grassland, those make exellent training material for our HAs who can get their second promotion

Louis founds christianity. Hatty adopts vassalage and serfdom. She has feudalism already. She is still willing to trade non monopoly techs with us though she is annoyed. She don't say "we have enough on our hands right now" neither, so she is not preparing for war. She came with this insulting demand and I sent her home (we need to make more HAs )

Now a 6 HA vs 3 archers combat in notthingham

First HA looses, archer is 2.1/3
Second HA retreats. archer is not scratched
Third HA looses, archer is 2.0/3
Fourth HA looses, archer is 0.7/3
Fifth HA wins
Sixt Ha wins

Remains one archer in Notthingham and three russian horse archers

Next turn archer promoted (combat II) and HA promoted (combat II)

This turn starts with good news as Homer is ours. This is good omen. The HA has 40% chance and wins, no need to suicide the other wounded HAs.

That was my last turn. I did not sign peace yet since next player should decide. I will let you see if you want to wipe Lizzy out right now or sign peace and finish her later. WW is becming an issue but Notthingham is a prime spot and was worth the effort

Still no interesting trades, as civs are holding their monopolies. I didn't switch to OR to avoid loosing a turn on music. We can do it now

I am chopping out of Novgorod BFC to help with the great library. Set research on COL (CS path), I think namliaM is right, beeline for ML is better and may not take longer

EDIT : Ehmmm, I forgot about gunpowder. cossaks need gunwpoder and the path through education is long so beeline to ML may be dangerous a bit

Also forgot the save

 

[Cosmichail]

Wow Blid that was quick. Talk about instant. Nice taking London Asperge and very happy you decided to stay. Excellent too on the GL will be nice for a science boost. (that's vastly becoming my favourite wonder). Some like Great Lighthouse I just love having those two scientists help with GP points and give us that extra boost.

We are Jewish now so that should help with the happiness too. But Hatty won't like it too much but hey what are you gonna do. Blid I always forget about the gunpowder too adding to the time factor in getting those beloved cossacks. (again my favourite). Once we get those puppies early enough we will be invincible MuHHAAAA. Rushing the GL is a great move too the sooner the better. Just wondering were you thinking the Education path for Liberalism. If we pop a GS could be used for Philosophy to speed up the path to Nationalism. Just some thoughts.

 

[namliaM]

EDIT : Ehmmm, I forgot about gunpowder. cossaks need gunwpoder and the path through education is long so ML beeline to ML may be dangerous a bit

Nice going blid, I think bite the bullit and bare the WW for now... Get rid of Lizzy if you can...

Geez, I allways forget about Gunpowder good thing you remember me, because I am just at that point in a MP game. No gunpowder and about to research MT.... A lot of good that will do me
To get to Gunpowder ASAP you go thru Guilds, so it may just be wize to change plan and (atleast) beeline for Knights so they can be usefull, the window for knights is so short... It is allmost over the minute someone has pikes....(engeneering)

 

[mike p]

Good job on the conquests. I surely didn't get it done this turnset, glad you guys picked up the slack.

If Liz doesn't have anything good to give us for peace, just go for a cease fire. That way we're not required to wait 10 turns if we decide we need to redeclare.

Secondly, will it be quicker to get to Military Tradition if we skip Guilds? It may leave us weak in the interim, but Guilds aren't actually a prerequisite for Cavalry (or Cossacks). We can also unlock gunpowder from the Education path and use Liberalism to grab Military Tradition, IIRC.

 

[blid]

Mike, do cease fires stop WW ?

Also, concerning the use of the artist, I think using it for nationalism will be a bit hard. Here are the techs list in priority :

Drama
Monarchy
Divine Right
Theology
Nationalism

I realize trading for mono was