S-07 The Fishermens' Shuttle

[sunrise089]

I know, I know.

I had three games "up" at once, and one got played Sun night, one yesterday, and this one will get posted tonight.

EDIT: Playing now.

PS - Unless I counted wrong, it's only been 48 hours since Sooooo posted his turns. I don't think that's excessive.

 

[sunrise089]

Turn 1: HC vassalizes to Qin, so we're now at war with him. Qin also refuses to talk, so we don't have a lot of options at this point. At least right now he isn't threatening us with units.

Turn 2: Education comes in. I start research on Banking, due in 4. I start running 10% on the culture slider, since unhappiness is becoming a bit of a problem. Qin builds Notre Dame. I send a spy into Incan lands, and do NOT see any incoming Chinese troops - but I don't have full visibility of the front either.

Turn 3: Start moving some troops towards Machu Picchu. Since Qin isn't attacking, I see no reason not to press onwards. Plus, I'm not sure how the vassal code works, but perhaps taking Vassal cities might make Qin seek peace?

Turn 4: We catch a pair of spies during the IT (we also caught one last turn). Qin is approaching our borders with a pike and a jumbo, but we have them covered.

Turn 5: Our pike/knight kills Qin's Jumbo/Chariot. GG is born. I'll wait for discussion to decide what to do with him.

Turn 6: Banking comes in. I chose econ, due in 8. Liberalism is also 8 away. I check the tech screen and find that

Turn 7: Qin moves a mace, chariot, and horse archer towards us. I take out the HA and expect the other two units to suicide against us next turn.

Turn 8: Qin's ace wins and his chariot looses. We counterattack and kill the mace.

We also meet this fine fellow (who has no trades available). We bombard Machu Pichu.

Turn 9: We're ready to attack Machu Picchu. It's heavily defended, but I think we'll be fine. The battle:
-suicide cat
-suicide cat
-mace kills longbow
-mace kills crossbow
-suicide cat (weaken pikeman)
-knight kills pike
-knight kills pike
-jumbo kills longbow
-jumbo kills HA
-knight kills HA
-jumbo kills chariot and takes city.

AT WHICH POINT MY CIV GAME CRASHES TO THE DESKTOP!



...

The restore turn is my turn 6. I do my best to get us back to where we were before without any changes.

Differences - this time the RNG killed one of our knights rather than a mace, Lincoln demanded Philosophy, and we loose one more jumbo assaulting Machu Picchu.

Turn 10: Nothing much - move some more seige forward to replace losses, order units to heal. The other Incan city should fall in about 5 turns.

Sooooo's research priorities path:

Banking->Economics->Liberalism->Nationalism->Representation->Astronomy
DONE DONE

The Roster:
sooooo
negyvenketto - up!
dl123654 - on deck
r_rolo1
Sunrise089 - just played

The Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/91988/Fishermen_s_Shuttle_AD-1390.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[dl123654]

China might be a good target for a pillaging campaign for extra money and slowing down their tech pace.

 

[sooooo]

Looking good, the vassalisation came earlier than I expected. negyvenketto is up, and should play 11 turns since Sunrise played 9 (we are on round number turns now).

Cuzco is starving so needs a whipping right now, and The Hague has a ivory camp sabotaged.

With Mao declaring on us, what do we think about converting to Judaism, and allying ourselves that way?

Kaifeng can be razed, whilest Ollantaytambo should only be kept if we also plan on taking Kassite and Xian (which could be good).

So we have to build some more national wonders: the national epic and the globe theatre. The most natural places to go (for post biology goodness) seem to be Corihuay... and Vilcamba. So I guess put one in each of them - any objections? BTW, Corihuay... needs the tile 1SW of it farming to spread irrigation to the rice.

 

[negyvenketto]

Got it. I hope I can play this evening.

 

[sooooo]

One more thing: If we temporarily increase espionage into Wang, we can see what he is researching if we get just 8 more EPs with him. This will be useful since he is probably our main threat to liberalism.

 

[negyvenketto]

I'm not well today so, won't play, sorry. (dl123654, do you want a swap?)
But I had a look on the save. I agree, Cori....something will be a nice GP farm, I feel it would be better to build both HE and Globe here.
I would make our medic Knight a super healer with the GG.
China ready to make peace, would offer world map for it. How far do we want to go in this war?

 

[sooooo]

HE is already built in Amsterdam. Don't normally combine the globe with any other nat. wonder, but am open to suggestions. Oh, did you mean NE instead of HE? Hmm, normally I use globe to whip/draft from at max growth, and have a seperate city to run specialists. Or do I have the wrong end of the stick here?

Regarding the war, the variant wasn't to launch a shuttle just short of the domination limit, so not too far. But we should at least capture/raze enough cities to make our present cities useful.

 

[dl123654]

I got it then, feel better negyvenketto

As for globe I've seen both strategies (GPP or military), there are advantages with both of them.

Globe+National=More GP, but then what do we do with them, we can't rush techs, GE would be nice for wonders, I guess corperations might be a good idea for this type of game but then again so is state property with all the workshops and watermills.

Globe+Military Building=With Heroic Epic and drafting we can get units every turn from this city but how much military do we need for a game like this. We are going for a space race, I guess a pillaging campaign or a stoping the tech leader might be in order later and a large military will stop people from attacking us but I don't see to many wars in the future. Furthermore I usually put Heroic Epic with something else like West Point or if you really want 1 turn military in the city with Ironworks.

To tell you the truth I don't like Globe and I can't remember the last game I even built it. The only time I will build it is when I have a large city (we will have these) and no way to make them happy so that I have the greatest benefit from it. I will check when I open the save and look where we can get the highest growth.

Anyone have anything to add that I missed and would like to add to my analysis? I'm going to sleep now and will be playing the save tomorrow.

 

[negyvenketto]

Oh, did you mean NE instead of HE? Hmm, normally I use globe to whip/draft from at max growth, and have a seperate city to run specialists. Or do I have the wrong end of the stick here?

Yes, I meant NE, sorry for the confusion.
We can have the more specialist there if there is no happy cap. But if we choose another city for Globe, we should leave some jungle in the BFC for preserve and put National Park here later.

Globe+National=More GP, but then what do we do with them, we can't rush techs, GE would be nice for wonders, I guess corperations might be a good idea for this type of game but then again so is state property with all the workshops and watermills.

Golden Ages also very useful when building SS parts.
And a few more academies and trade missions wouldn't hurt either.

 

[sooooo]

dl123654, you are right that with our space mission, the national epic is a higher priority than the globe.

I think the best GPs we can build are merchants for their trade missions. Later in the game they generally work out as more beakers than lightbulbing anyway. Once we finally get rid of this war weariness we may be able to rehire some specialists in the capital and other cities.

Any other thoughts about Judaism?

 

[sooooo]

Actually that point about national park combining well with national epic could be very relevant. DIdn't consider that because I haven't built the national park yet, but it looks tasty. So building NE in a city with forests sounds a good idea (Vilcamba??)

 

[dl123654]

Save

Turn -1:
Send the medic towards home, send the GG towards the medic
Up esponise with Korea

Turn 2:
Get access to Korea techs Education in 2 turns

Turn 4:
Korea finishes Education and start Liberalism in 7, switch from Economics to Liberalism, Inca and China are both doing guilds

Turn 6:
Korea goes around the world
Prepare for the attack on Ollantaytambo

IBT:
China launches a large attack on Vilcabamba, we lose 2 70% battles and they take the city

Turn 7:
Take back Vilcabamba and take Ollantaytambo, it has 3 wonders (+1 health in all cities, faster workers, all religion civics) so I keep it
End the war getting 15 gold
Trade Lincoln Civil Service for 110 gold and Theoracy

Turn 8:
Liberalism->Finish Economics in 2 turns
Take Nationalism as free tech
Start Taj in capital

Turn 10:
Finish Economics, get a GM, left him and a boat unmoved incase we wanted to bring him somewhere

Notes:
Was focused on the war so didn't built any national wonders
Checked all the cities and I think the best city for Globe+National Epic is Corihuayrachina, it has +31 food at size 20 if we do it right

Spoiler :

Set research for Constitution but can be changed
Ecomony is doing good now 60-70% science, as we spread Buddism that should get better
We have a lot of civic options now and should consider making our changes during the golden age

EDIT:
Just saw your new post sooooo, I've seen that stragegy too, never tried it though

 

[sunrise089]

Well I think we should try the new National ParkEpic strategy, if only for variety's sake.

 

[sooooo]

Roster update:

sooooo
negyvenketto - UP
dl123654
r_rolo1 - On Deck
Sunrise089

 

[negyvenketto]

Got it. Will play in 2-3h from now.

 

[negyvenketto]

dl123654 made my turnset a quiet builder one
Temple of Artemis is in Korea, I put our GM on a Caravel and sent there for a trade mission (still traveling).
We got another GM in Utrecht in 1520AD.

I found these confused workers near Amsterdam. Who will win?
I voted for the farm.

I was asking Quin's money

HC surprised me. Since we heading for a peaceful victory I said no.
He vassalized to Frederick instead.

JC made me think for a while and I accepted his demand
He is ahead of us in power and I wanted to avoid war just now. He became pleased.

The Taj Mahal is ready next turn and we can change civics without anarchy. I would go for Representation/Free Market/Free religion.
I started to spread buddhism, but the 1st mission failed
Astronomy is 3 turns away.

Spoiler :

Logging by BUG Mod (BtS v3.02) - New Log Entries
------------------------------------------------
Turn 210/500 (1500 AD) [13-Sep-2007 19:55:59]
Nijmegen finishes: Courthouse
Huamanga grows: 11

IBT:
Huayna Capac revolts and is no longer a Vassal State of Qin Shi Huang
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 211/500 (1505 AD) [13-Sep-2007 20:11:06]
Nijmegen begins: University (100 turns)
Amsterdam grows: 12
Maastricht grows: 10
Huamanga finishes: Library
Corihuayrachina grows: 8
Tiwanaku grows: 5
Tiwanaku finishes: Jewish Monastery
Leiden grows: 4
Cuzco grows: 7

IBT:
Judaism has spread: Rotterdam
Judaism has spread: Middelburg
Huayna Capac becomes a Vassal State of Frederick
Attitude Change: Frederick(Germany) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Fishermen's Shuttle(Netherlands), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Lincoln(America) towards Fishermen's Shuttle(Netherlands), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 212/500 (1510 AD) [13-Sep-2007 20:35:36]
Huamanga begins: University (14 turns)
Tiwanaku begins: Buddhist Missionary (14 turns)
A Mine was built near Kaifeng
A Farm was built near Amsterdam
The Hague finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Nijmegen grows: 9
Middelburg grows: 15
Delft grows: 12
Huamanga grows: 12
Corihuayrachina finishes: Library
Tiwanaku grows: 6
Haarlem grows: 5

IBT:
Civics Change: Lincoln(America) from 'Vassalage' to 'Bureaucracy'

Turn 213/500 (1515 AD) [13-Sep-2007 20:40:32]
The Hague begins: Buddhist Missionary (4 turns)
Corihuayrachina begins: Harbor (10 turns)
A Farm was built near Kaifeng
Utrecht grows: 15
The Hague grows: 10
Rotterdam grows: 15
Rotterdam's borders expand
Corihuayrachina grows: 9
Machu Picchu's borders expand

IBT:
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Wang Kon(Korea), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Wang Kon(Korea) from 'Vassalage' to 'Bureaucracy'

Turn 214/500 (1520 AD) [13-Sep-2007 20:45:32]
A Farm was built near Amsterdam
Jacques Cartier (Great Merchant) born in Utrecht
Vilcabamba grows: 3
Vilcabamba finishes: Theatre
Tiwanaku grows: 7
Haarlem finishes: Granary
Ollantaytambo's borders expand

IBT:
Civics Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

Turn 215/500 (1525 AD) [13-Sep-2007 20:47:48]
Vilcabamba begins: Granary (15 turns)
Haarlem begins: Lighthouse (20 turns)
A Windmill was built near Leiden
Tech learned: Constitution
Nijmegen grows: 10
Maastricht grows: 11
Middelburg grows: 16
Middelburg finishes: Grocer
Delft finishes: University
Huamanga grows: 13
Cuzco grows: 8

IBT:

Turn 216/500 (1530 AD) [13-Sep-2007 20:51:40]
Research begun: Astronomy (8 Turns)
Middelburg begins: Customs House (8 turns)
Delft begins: Harbor (4 turns)
A Farm was built near Cuzco
A Farm was built near Ollantaytambo
The Hague grows: 11
The Hague finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Corihuayrachina grows: 10
Tiwanaku grows: 8
Leiden's borders expand
Ollantaytambo finishes: Theatre

IBT:
Civics Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) from 'Decentralization' to 'Mercantilism'

Turn 217/500 (1535 AD) [13-Sep-2007 20:59:08]
The Hague begins: Buddhist Missionary (4 turns)
Ollantaytambo begins: Courthouse (24 turns)
A Farm was built near Rotterdam
A Farm was built near Ollantaytambo
Rotterdam grows: 16
Tiwanaku finishes: Buddhist Missionary

IBT:

Turn 218/500 (1540 AD) [13-Sep-2007 21:06:41]
Tiwanaku begins: University (14 turns)
A Farm was built near Machu Picchu
A Farm was built near Rotterdam
Utrecht grows: 16
Maastricht grows: 12
Middelburg grows: 17
Huamanga grows: 14
Corihuayrachina grows: 11
Tiwanaku grows: 9
Leiden grows: 5
Cuzco grows: 9
Haarlem grows: 5

IBT:

Turn 219/500 (1545 AD) [13-Sep-2007 21:11:45]
A Mine was built near Ollantaytambo
A Windmill was built near Leiden
A Farm was built near Ollantaytambo
Rotterdam grows: 17
Delft finishes: Harbor
Machu Picchu grows: 8
Machu Picchu finishes: Theatre

IBT:

Turn 220/500 (1550 AD) [13-Sep-2007 21:18:47]
Delft begins: Customs House (9 turns)
Machu Picchu begins: Harbor (40 turns)
A Farm was built near Machu Picchu
A Pasture was built near Assyrian
A Farm was built near Rotterdam

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, got it and will play tomorrow.

 

[r_rolo1]

Turn 0 – Made some MM to Cuzco ( the city doesn’t need a engineer)

Turn 1 – IBT We have our taj GA

Spoiler :

And confu spreads into our lands ( AP is confu and owned by Wang ). Upped slider to 70 % ( still in the green )
Do anyone has plans for the GM? I will save it to a GA....
HC revolted to Merc

Turn 2 –IBT This joker demanded CS. No need for the anarchy, thank you

Spoiler :

AP prop ( I defied it, we need the routes ):

Spoiler :

Some spies captured ( no natio revealed )
Any idea where to build Oxford? I thinked Middelsburg, but the Moai links better to Ironworks....

Turn 3 – We got astro. Choosed Chemistry ( for privateers and frigates ).AP resolution passes ( wang has 4x more votes than everyone else ). This will sour things between QSH and frederick....

Turn 5 – We lost Machu Pichu corn due to incan border expansion....and discovered gold near the NE city. Cuzco is pressured as well

Turn 6 - Researched Chemistry. Started PP ( in the road to the UB )

Turn 7 - Gifted Guilds to Lincoln ( he was 1 turn of finshing it....) The guy warmed enough to OB and our money get to +34 @ 70 % ( trade routes )

Turn 8 – Made this deal with Wang ( he was one turn of finishing it, so I decided to strip him out of his money... )

Spoiler :

Started NE in Vilcabamba ( 12 turns )

Turn 9 – Finished PP, started RP ( 3 turns @ 70 % )

Turn 10 – OB with QSH ( how could I forgot this? we need the trade routes )


Thoughs

Not much to say. Things are quiet by now....

IMHO we should research Steam Power after RP, to unlock our powerful UB ( but keep a eye in JC, because it looks that the guy is beelining Democracy ), followed by Democracy ( for the big bronze lady ) . We should use the GM in another GA as well ....
Where to put Oxford? After the Moai city and the capitol ( that is inflated because of Beauro ) ,the best science city is Maastrich. Maybe it would be a nice place...

We should not spread confu.... to limit possible AP in the future

QSH is willing to trade RP with us ( strange, that is ATM a monopoly tech... ) + 60 gold for Gunpowder. Next player could do the trade if he thinks that is wise ( would save us some research turns in GA ). JC is willing to war with everyone except QSH, but the price is steep ( 3 techs ).

Roster

sooooo - On deck
negyvenketto
dl123654
r_rolo1 - Just played
Sunrise089 - UP

Good luck!

 

[sooooo]

From your report it looks like some well played turns. Some nice little tricks there. TBH I had forgotten about our UB, and from looking it up it looks very nice! And with having the Mauseleum I think a golden age is better than a trade mission.

Sunrise, can you load the save this time?