Satellite out of control

[DaveShack]

A long-term solution to orbital decay is problematic because it's more than just the obvious 2-body problem of Earth and satellite. The moon and sun also have large effects on the future orbit, as well as Jupiter and possibly other planets depending on their locations. Peturbations of the otherwise stable orbit is one of the three main reasons satellites need the ability to make course corrections, the others being making adjustments to get an urgently needed photo, and in the case of military satellites the need to avoid an enemy interceptor.

Reentry has another host of variables which make it extremely difficult to predict when it's not controlled. The manned mission reentries are so precise because large delta-v is used to control the trajectory so that the interface occurs within a specific atmospheric window. Earth's atmosphere expands and contracts depending on the seasons, lunar phase, and solar wind. During "low tide" conditions the satellite will encounter atmosphere lower down, while in "high tide" conditions the atmosphere reaches a lot further out. A tiny difference will make a huge difference in the point of impact.

As for a shuttle mission, even if the orbit were sufficiently predictable, the cost would be prohibitive. I have not looked at the ephemeris, but this satellite is probably in a high inclination orbit, one which the shuttle cannot reach from a Florida launch.

 

[sourboy]

Yeah, originally it seemed like the fact that it was a spy satellite made me consider alterior reasons for it's demise. Now hearing it was recently launched and failed, let alone that this happens (really? every few months?) often. Just a glamourized story.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Boom!

U.S. to Shoot Broken Satellite Carrying Lethal Fuel

Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. military said it will try to shoot down a broken spy satellite within two weeks, aiming to destroy the object before it crashes to Earth carrying lethal chemicals.

The satellite, weighing more than 2 tons, contains a highly toxic propellant called hydrazine, which could disperse over an area of about two American football fields on the ground, General James Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Pentagon press conference.

``When you inhale it, it affects tissues in lungs and has the burning sensation,'' Cartwright said. ``If you stick close to it and inhale it, it could be deadly.''

Breaking the satellite into smaller pieces reduces the odds that metal or deadly hydrazine will survive the heat of re-entry. The satellite was launched in December 2006 and stopped working within hours.

This would be the first time the U.S. has used a tactical missile to destroy a spacecraft. It comes after the U.S. and other countries criticized China for destroying one of its defunct weather satellites last year in a military test.
-- clip --

 

[Winner]

Great - instead of having one piece which we can follow, they break it into thousands of pieces which will add to millions of dangerous particles threatening the other satellites.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Great - instead of having one piece which we can follow, they break it into thousands of pieces which will add to millions of dangerous particles threatening the other satellites.

I don't know if they're going to obliterate it, or just make it come down at a certain time so it doesn't hit anything or land anywhere that Ivan or the Reds (it's weird to juxtapose those two!) can get to it.

 

[Aegis]

Sorry, I don't believe for one second that the US would allow a spy satellite to randomly fall into another country's hands.

"Toxic fuel" indeed.

 

[woody60707]

Sorry, I don't believe for one second that the US would allow a spy satellite to randomly fall into another country's hands.

"Toxic fuel" indeed.

just to note, these NSA/CIA guys are smart people. If they were worried that the satellite could survive re-entry well enough to be studied, they would of placed a detonator in it. Or they were worried about that and set off the detonator already.

In any case no one is that dumb that works in that field that didn't think this one very simple step ahead.

 

[Gooblah]

The only way a tactical missile would be effective would be if the satellite was close enough to the atmosphere for any debris created to be attracted by the Earth's gravity. Then, they would all burn up due to their small size.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

just to note, these NSA/CIA guys are smart people. If they were worried that the satellite could survive re-entry well enough to be studied, they would of placed a detonator in it. Or they were worried about that and set off the detonator already.

In any case no one is that dumb that works in that field that didn't think this one very simple step ahead.

Um, the point is that they've lost communication with the satellite...

 

[Winner]

conspiracy

Or it's not a spy satellite but a secret nuclear warhead launch platform designed to carry out a surprise first strike It would be rather embarrassing if the others found out

/conspiracy

Seriously, I'd risk it and let it fall down. The chance it will hit something of any value is minimal.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

conspiracy

Or it's not a spy satellite but a secret nuclear warhead launch platform designed to carry out a surprise first strike It would be rather embarrassing if the others found out

/conspiracy

In that case we'd better get the Space Cowboys.

Seriously, I'd risk it and let it fall down. The chance it will hit something of any value is minimal.

But it does exist, and at the very least, we get to shoot it down. Tell me that's not cool.

 

[woody60707]

Um, the point is that they've lost communication with the satellite...

Yes (maybe? have they lost comm or control, idk), but the system should/would be on a separate antenna. It would be a simple remote detonator and a crypto.

But this is all a big IF.

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

In that case we'd better get the Space Cowboys.

Good movie. My jaw dropped when I saw the Russian Nukes.

 

[Ecofarm]

One shot - one kill

 

[RedRalph]

and now China says it might get hit by the debris

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Well, they already have quite a lot western electronic junk to rip apart. Probably they wont even notice.

 

[Ecofarm]

China began begging for data on the strike the second it hit. You think this "concern for personal safety" might have something to do with them wanting data?

 

[RedRalph]

Quite possibly, yeah... I think the health of Chinese citizens is pretty low down on the priorities of the Chinese govt to be honest. Wheres this begging BTW?

 

[Ecofarm]

Liu Jianchao, the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, said at a news conference in Beijing that the United States should also share data promptly about the passage of the remaining pieces of the satellite, which are expected to re-enter the Earth’s atmosphere and mostly burn up in the next two days...

“China is continuously following closely the possible harm caused by the U.S. action to outer space security and relevant countries,” Mr. Liu said, according to The Associated Press. “China requests the U.S. to fulfill its international obligations in real earnest and provide to the international community necessary information and relevant data in a timely and prompt way so that relevant countries can take precautions.”...

American officials were critical of China last year when it used an anti-satellite weapon to destroy a satellite in a much higher orbit in January 2007 and then refused even to confirm the test for nearly two weeks.

The Chinese test produced 1,600 pieces of debris that are expected to orbit the Earth for years, preventing other spacecraft from using the same or similar orbits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/world/asia/22china.html

---

It hit the satellite about three minutes later as the spacecraft traveled in polar orbit at more than 17,000 mph.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7326215

How badarse is it to nail that thing with a missile? How fast does an ICBM travel?

 

[RedRalph]

Wont let me in, (funny enough) I'm not a registered reader