Saturn Embassy

Memphus · Jun 6, 2009

Chat with LP

Spoiler :

Memphus says:
morning (evening for you i suppose)
Memphus says:
thanks for monarchy!
Lord says:
hi
Lord says:
no problem!
Memphus says:
so cav just build Henge FYI
Memphus says:
we figure the HG comes next, then they slave out granaries in thier new cities (they have 9) and grow like crazy
Lord says:
hmm, ok
Lord says:
thanks for the info
Memphus says:
also more update for you: that barb moved closer to you guys and there is a secodn axeman behind him
Lord says:
yeah, we noticed that... lots of new barbs this turn
Memphus says:
you guys are ok at your new city though right?
Lord says:
hopefully
Lord says:
only 1 Immortal in the area
Memphus says:
well you got our letter right?
Memphus says:
If you get in trouble we can send our chariot there after healing if you need.
Memphus says:
or the Immortal you have in Rhea can go there now and our chariot will heal and attack anything incomming until you get more troops?
Lord says:
yeah, I think we got the letter
Lord says:
thanks for the offer of help
Lord says:
I'll have to check the in-game situation
Lord says:
currently writing up the next ALC round , so I'm a bit preoccupied
Memphus says:
for sure. just pm me or msg me here if you have specific orders for him glad to help out
Lord says:
ok, will do
Memphus says:
do you know rough distance from our galley to MS? Also FYI kaz showed up with a 3rd chariot. no sign of backing down (currency in 2 so you might want to try to get a trade for math and something else with MS)
Lord says:
no idea where MS is sorry
Lord says:
ouch, 3rd chariot
Lord says:
no spears yet, I take it?
Memphus says:
we have 1 4 tiles out
Memphus says:
we still have 3 axes visible to them
Lord says:
why math?
Lord says:
obviously we'll try
Lord says:
but not necessary for currency
Memphus says:
cause isn't math what you lose to feudalism? (kaz not backing down )
Memphus says:
side track we are all following your ALC
Lord says:
yeah, indeed
Lord says:
we'll do our best to get it from MS, although we haven't had any success in the past so I'm not hopeful
Lord says:
I'm expecting we'll need to research it ourselves
Lord says:
okay, glad to know people are reading it
Memphus says:
as mentioned we can funnel you gold to keep you at 100% in 2 turns once we have currency
Memphus says:
any word from Kaz to you yet? (oh btw the way you are the talk of our forums with your pwnage on KM from Cav! that was sick!)
Lord says:
cool, that's great... probably makes sense, since I think we've got the highest GNP at the moment
Lord says:
we haven't heard back from Kaz... Kaleb asked for my MSN, but hasn't been online. We sent them a brief message which didn't really say anything... not sure if we forwarded that onto you, I can do so if you didn't get it.
Memphus says:
not sure if we got it? we got your kaz convo.
Lord says:
I can send it later on if not
Lord says:
I'll check
Memphus says:
so to be correct you guys have 129 GNP right now?
Lord says:
heh, glad people approve of my handling of the Cav situation
Lord says:
yeah, I think it's something like that
Lord says:
maybe not quite
Lord says:
we're 2nd
Lord says:
(I don't have the screenies in front of me at the moment, obviously... can check soon though)
Memphus says:
cool. next time you check let me know! that is awsome GNP
Memphus says:
did you guys get an academy yet?
Lord says:
nope, no Great People
Lord says:
we need to rectify that situation soon
Lord says:
problem is our food situation sucks, so it's hard to hire specialists
Lord says:
plus we have so few hammers, so we need citizens working the mines...
Memphus says:
yeah the map doesn't seem to balanced...
Memphus says:
we have crazy hammers and food, but no GNP...no spots for cottages for us.
Memphus says:
so naturally our alliance is very good synergy
Memphus says:
BTW sometime to think about (was messing around with the simulator)
Memphus says:
we can get guilds before 1 AD for knights if we focused (also gets you windmills for more food) Knights would let you cut through Cav or MS really fast!
Lord says:
very true
Lord says:
that'd be well worth considering
Lord says:
and yeah, this map is surprisingly unbalanced
Lord says:
we're just exploring Cav's lands now, and they're like a mirror image of ours except twice as good
Lord says:
Fish and river Wheat at their start compared to Crabs and plains-hill Sheep for ours
Lord says:
more flood plains near them...
Lord says:
etc
Memphus says:
not cool
Lord says:
yeah
Lord says:
I don't know quite what Sullla was thinking
Memphus says:
then kill them with knights
Lord says:
maybe he hasn't played much multiplayer
Lord says:
heh, yeah
Lord says:
he might not have realised how significant an issue balanced starts is to a multiplayer game amongst roughly evenly skilled players...
Lord says:
but I digress
Memphus says:
don't worry about it again our team has chatted about the non balance of the map...
Memphus says:
so the trick (if you guys were on board with the guilds) is that we need to find math and calendar from somewhere
Memphus says:
which convininetly MS has....but that is like running into a wall.
Lord says:
heh, yeah...
Lord says:
we got tired of trying to communicate with them a while ago...
Memphus says:
so did we so we just gave up.
Memphus says:
so FYI we have a bit of a wonder explosion happening in the next 5 turns. (which may have been assumed due to our mfg)
Memphus says:
you know about collosus, but there are 2 more. It is the only way we can tech with out map
Memphus says:
*out = our
Lord says:
ah, okay
Lord says:
mind saying which ones?
Lord says:
we're not building any, so you have no competition
Lord says:
(from us)
Memphus says:
sure pyramids and GLH
Lord says:
sweet
Memphus says:
so hopefully we get them and not Cav or Kaz
Lord says:
those are my two favourite early game wonders
Lord says:
very powerful
Lord says:
you have stone?
Memphus says:
yeah so as you can guess we'll go to representation
Lord says:
(can't remember)
Memphus says:
no stone....
Lord says:
yep
Lord says:
ok
Memphus says:
we just have high MGF and have been running an engineer for a while now
Memphus says:
so the good news is you benefit from the GLH too! all your trade routes will be worht more GNP
Memphus says:
so that way we can still funnel you gold, but tech ourselves as well
Lord says:
nice
Memphus says:
if you guys want wonders in the future lets us know so we don't go for them.
Lord says:
sure thing
Lord says:
although I don't see it happening anytime soon
Lord says:
we need to expand first
Lord says:
get higher pop in our cities
Memphus says:
ok cool!
Memphus says:
wow i wish MS would play diplomacy! getting them as a junior partner of the alliance would make gettign techs erasier.
Lord says:
mmm
Lord says:
it's impossible to know what they're thinking when they never respond though...
Memphus says:
exactly.
Memphus says:
i wonder if chatting in game to them is better?
Memphus says:
like opening the window: and saying math & calendar for currency, then ask for math?
Lord says:
I think that's a bit skewed in beakers, so they'd be unlikely to accept anyway
Lord says:
but it might be worth a shot
Memphus says:
maybe throw in something else? not sure what though?
Lord says:
mmm, I'd have to check
Lord says:
sorry, trying to concentrate on getting the ALC thing done so I can head to bed
Lord says:
I'll be slightly more on the ball tomorrow
Memphus says:
np! well we have talked about lots so want to just shut it down here for now?
Lord says:
sure thing
Lord says:
I'll be around all day tomorrow
Memphus says:
awsome me too! we can discuss some plans in further detail
Lord says:
sweet
Lord says:
okay, see you

Memphus · Jun 6, 2009

Part 2: Interesting item to note. The idea of not building the pyramids.

Spoiler :

Memphus · Jun 7, 2009

Chat with LP today:

Spoiler :

Krill · Jun 7, 2009

Earlier chat informing Saturn of the situation around Angle.

Spoiler :

General_W · Jun 8, 2009

Great work here gentlemen :thumbsup:

I hope to get more active when things settle down with my new job a bit.

AutomatedTeller · Jun 8, 2009

They dont' like their land?

I agree, it's not shield friendly and they'll have some health issues (we may want to offer extra health resources to them), but no wonder they are teching so well - heavy floodplains and financial + organized = really good tech!!

IamJohn · Jun 11, 2009

Since it seems like I was the first to see it I figure I might as well post it since Gen_W isn't around much.

Hi SANCTA,

Sorry for the delay in our reply. As to your question - absolutely, you're always welcome in our lands.

We recently recieved a message from Kaz:

Greetings Lord Parkin of Saturn,

We apologize for our delay in responding to your latest message but the war has taken much of our time. We understand your desire to remain at peace with the world. We have the same desire but this i not possible for us right now. SANCTA began the war and are doing their best to bully the great nation of Kazakhstan. We know that the best way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him and that is what we intend to do.

We noticed you recently conducted a few trades with SANCTA. While we do not like to see our enemy benefiting from these trades we consider you to be our friend and we are happy that you have gained. We do ask that in the future you consider trading with us before SANCTA. We would certainly make any such trades worth your while. We hope our past deals with you have shown our trustworthiness. We have placed our trust in you though you should know that SANCTA has tried to undermine this trust. We are including a copy of their declaration of war which also states that your team will not be trading feudalism to us. We do not believe their lies but thought it best to have them in the open. Your note indicated you would have feudalism around turn 102. Is this still an accurate estimate?

SANCTA's last message to us is included in the spoiler.

donsig of Kazakhstan

Click to expand...

Of course, we are not fooled by these claims that Kaz "considers us their friend" and the like. We are preparing our response, and will send it in a few days. We'll keep you updated with what's happening.

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin of Saturn

Sincerely,
Team Saturn

I guess Kaz figures it's worth a shot to see if there's any way to get Fued...

Dreylin · Jun 11, 2009

Notice the difference in tone between this e-mail and the ones they have sent to us. No comedy stylings in this one, it's all business. We should ask Saturn if this is normal for their Kaz comminications, or if they've just gone serious for this message.

IamJohn · Jun 11, 2009

They have a totally different goal when they're talking to Saturn, they know they can't threaten us nearly as much as they can threaten the team that's in last place, so each needs a different approach. *shrug*

Really I think the only way Kaz can threaten Saturn is by attempting to sic Cav on them.

Krill · Jun 11, 2009

I think it's a topic we can bring up when a chat with Saturn occurs, and we just need somehing to talk about. I tend to agree with IAJ, Kaz never wanted us as an ally, and so messed around with us. Possibly not the best thing they could have done.

Krill · Jun 11, 2009

We finish currency this turn, and need to forward it to Saturn. I suggest we set research onto Polytheism at 0% science to save gold.

We need to consider what possible tech trades we would like to try and set up, either for us or Saturn.

We are currently up:

Currency,
MC,
Fued.

and down

Maths (All)
CS (Cav, Kaz)
Calendar (All)
Construction (MS, Kaz)
Aesthetics, Lit (Kaz)
Polytheism, Monotheism (All)

IamJohn · Jun 11, 2009

What happens if Kaz gets Fued? Are we serious considering taking the offence? If we let them have it perhaps Saturn can use it as leverage to get other techs. Then again that really isn't the most honorable route and saturn might not like doing that...

Krill · Jun 11, 2009

I'm unsure on Fued. I think that if we get construction soon and capture Angle in the next 4 turns, we'll be able to hold off Kaz whether they have Fued or not, in which case I'm not bothered. If, OTOH, we don't quickly get Angle, Kaz really try to press us, we don't get construction...

I'm not sure what Saturn are thinking. I would be incredibly pissed off if I negoitiated with Kaz in good faith, only to be told that Kaz are selling your tech to other teams that are giving you the cold shoulder. I would have to consider the effect on my reputation...but then again, the two teams that were giving the cold shoulder aren't exactly people that you care alot about and wouldn't trade with you either way, so that's a no win situation. And the fourth team doesn't want you to trade it away.

I'm tempted to think that Saturn won't trade Fued unless they get a damned good deal...and if they get a damned good deal we get tech for "free"

Krill · Jun 13, 2009

Keeping Saturn in the loop, as per the treaty.

Spoiler :

Krill says (06:09):
Hi mate, got a moment?
Lord Parkin says (06:10):
sure thing
just traded for Currency with Memphus
Krill says (06:10):
(sorry to keep on bugging you every day btw)
I saw in civstats
Lord Parkin says (06:10):
nah, it's ok
Krill says (06:11):
I was wondering whether Memphus talked you about diplomacy sometime in the last 4 hours?
keeping you updated, and everything
Lord Parkin says (06:14):
hmm, not diplomacy
we traded Currency though
he seemed in a rush
work or something
Krill says (06:15):
yeah, he was busy last night. I'll let him explain his life though.
Krill says (06:17):
OK, we approached MS and got the usual silent treatment in the end. The interesting thing was that Cav were interested in currency.
Krill says (06:19):
Basically 3 deals go proposed:
currency for maths+calendar
MC for maths+construction (they were reluctant to trade construction) and
currency and MC for maths+calendar+construction.

we haven't heard back yet though...
Lord Parkin says (06:19):
hmm, ok
would be good news if one of those could go through
Lord Parkin says (06:20):
I'd be cautious about trading them MC, since that leaves them and Kaz a step away from Macemen
but good that they're willing to talk anyway
I'd prioritize CS over any of their other techs
but not sure if they'll do that
Krill says (06:20):
Well
Krill says (06:21):
CS got traded to MS this turn (for construction)
so if you can make 105 base beakers (after trade routes) you could get CS in 7 turns
Lord Parkin says (06:22):
hmm, true
but we'd still be behind by Machinery
Krill says (06:23):
longbows behind walls
War eles (which are 10 hammers cheaper than maces/unit)
Lord Parkin says (06:23):
yeah, but still not ideal
Krill says (06:23):
and HA to shred cats with flanking
Lord Parkin says (06:23):
offensive defense is necessary
Lord Parkin says (06:24):
true, Eles would help
Krill says (06:24):
If your opponent is attacking with maces, cats and HA...
WE are better than maces
you get teh same odss on the maces
Krill says (06:25):
and better odds against the HA
the only loss is no defensive bonus
Lord Parkin says (06:25):
yeah
true
Krill says (06:29):
So, having informed Saturn of those proposed deals, is Saturn unwilling to go ahead with any of them?
Lord Parkin says (06:34):
I don't think we'd be against any of them, but I'll ask my team

Krill says (06:34):
cool, thank you
Krill says (06:35):
when we ran the numbers on the cost/benefit...each deal gets progressively better for Cav on a beaker:beaker ratio. TBH I'd be a bit suprised if they don't go for deal 3, considering the amount of cities Cav has. Currency is worth 18 commerce/turn to them...
Lord Parkin says (06:49):
posted in the forum
Lord Parkin says (06:50):
hopefully will get some responses soon
by the way, if you're interested, I'll be available for an online game of Civ4 in an hour or two
I asked a few people, and can't remember if you were one of the ones that was available in the weekend

Lord Parkin says (06:51):
so no problem if you're busy
Krill says (06:51):
thank you, but unfortunately I can't play connect to mP games from uni
Lord Parkin says (06:51):
ah, ok
what hours are you at uni during the day?
what time is it there now?
Krill says (06:52):
I live in college
so, internet connection goes through uni servers
can't play at all
Lord Parkin says (06:52):
oh, that sucks...
I could play through my uni servers when I lived there
Krill says (06:52):
years ago we could. It got changed a few years before I arrived though.
Lord Parkin says (06:53):
ah
never mind then
maybe sometime when you're home from uni

(do you go home in the holidays?)
Krill says (06:53):
Yeah...I'll be home in early July for a few months
Lord Parkin says (06:53):
ah, right
I leave for Germany sometime mid-late July
Lord Parkin says (06:54):
maybe we'll get a chance for a game, not sure
anyway, going for a shower... brb
Krill says (06:54):
maybe,
cya

Krill · Jun 13, 2009

plako just collared me and wanted to talk about tech quickly.

Spoiler :

Krill · Jun 13, 2009

Another quick, but detailed, chat with Saturn.

Spoiler :

Krill says (01:48):
Hi mate, got a moment?
Lord Parkin says (01:49):
hi
sure
Krill says (01:49):
Couple of things, congrats on finishing fuedalism
Lord Parkin says (01:49):
cheers
Krill says (01:49):
we look forward to the diplomatic fireworks next turn
Krill says (01:50):
We killed the third Kaz chariot this turn
Lord Parkin says (01:50):
lol, yeah
cool
Krill says (01:50):
Niklas made Memphus mad and he took a 50/50

Memphus says (01:50):
(6)
Krill says (01:50):
luckily Karma exists
sotrta
Lord Parkin says (01:50):
hehe
ok
Memphus says (01:50):
Lord before I end turn do you need our chariot to mvoe anywhere for supprt?
Lord Parkin says (01:51):
might need some help up near Iapetus soon
if there are any more barbs around
Memphus says (01:51):
Ok so heal now? (3 out of 4 str) or move?
you tell me which way!
Lord Parkin says (01:52):
well, where is he at the moment?
probably heal now
Memphus says (01:52):
Rhea
Lord Parkin says (01:52):
ah, ok
no sense in him dying due to an unexpected barb attack
so heal

Memphus says (01:52):
ok cool!
just if you need him in any direction after your next turn pm me or something

Memphus says (01:53):
ending turn, ill let krill get back to his info

Krill says (01:53):
Basically we've had 2 chats with niklas
who being the insufferable douche that he is annoyed Memphus, but has alluded to something slightly interesting
Lord Parkin says (01:54):
oh?
Krill says (01:54):
Cav stated that they weren't far from currency themselves (despite just finishing CS and revolting to bureacracy), and basically said they'd only offer maths for it
Krill says (01:55):
Which means 1 of 3 things
Krill says (01:56):
Either MS/Kaz are researching currency and are about to trade it to kaz and Cav (and I'd bet MS after last turn). DS was in the game, and right after the offer was made by Memphus, Niklas jumped in the game, and then DS made that public post
Krill says (01:57):
another is that they aren't actually close to currency; they offered maths because they "know" you are getting maths from Kaz for fuedalism (and they stated they are getting fued from Kaz), and hence that as we can get maths from you, they might as well sell it to us for something useful.
Lord Parkin says (01:58):
yeah
Krill says (01:58):
the third thing is a little weirder.
Kaz have gone for the GL
Lord Parkin says (01:59):
Lib or Lighthouse?
Krill says (01:59):
lib
Lord Parkin says (01:59):
ok
Krill says (01:59):
got lit on, what, t90?
Memphus says (01:59):
i bet they finish it in the next 3 turns
Krill says (01:59):
(I disagree...I don;t think they have the production)
I'd say t105
but that is beside the point
Lord Parkin says (02:00):
ok
Krill says (02:01):
They (the trio) are missing HBR (which is a 2 turn tech), MC, paper, drama (which Cav can't research) philo, compass, music (can't research).
Krill says (02:02):
oh, and theology
THe weird thing is, even with Cavs now massive research rate
Krill says (02:03):
they can't be aiming to go striaght for lib
kaz are getting hte GL so they can bulb their way there
And Kaz also have the top branch of the tech tree, and Cav won;t duplicate research
Krill says (02:04):
Which leaves the bottom part of the branch to research; Cav are probably going for maces and their UU.
Lord Parkin says (02:04):
hmm, ok
yeah, that makes sense
Memphus says (02:05):
*also following along* drinking (b) waiting for krill to make a point...
Krill says (02:06):
Basically, the first war you are going to get involved in is a draft war
but it isn;t all that far off
Back of the envelope calculations would say it's something like 40 turns away
if that.
Lord Parkin says (02:08):
yep
Memphus says (02:10):
I think I see Krill's point here.
Memphus says (02:11):
We give you $$ to power through math so someone can trade for Construction / Calendar (or maybe CS)
then you gift us a little $$ back so we can get a longbow upgrade in the front line war vs. Kaz.
Lord Parkin says (02:13):
yeah, sounds ok
just checked barb situation... extremely bad for us
we'll probably lose Iapetus, because the turn player forgot to switch builds this turn
Memphus says (02:13):

Lord Parkin says (02:13):
2 Axes 2 turns away
Memphus says (02:13):
can that chariot get there?
Lord Parkin says (02:13):
in Rhea? No, not in time
Memphus says (02:13):
shoot
Memphus says (02:14):
any way to whip or anything?
Lord Parkin says (02:15):
no, not enough time
because the turn player forgot to switch
so next turn, they'll be right next to the city, and we'll need a 2 pop whip at size 2
Lord Parkin says (02:16):
I really wish he hadn't forgotten to switch to an Archer, that will probably cost us the city
guess we can't reload for that
oh well
Krill says (02:16):
umm
it's size 2
Krill says (02:17):
so it won;t autoraze, right?
Lord Parkin says (02:17):
probably not
but still a massive pain in the ass
Memphus says (02:17):
well can i dispatch the chariot?
if I can capture it we can gift it back!
(not downplayignthe pain in the ass you are right)
Lord Parkin says (02:18):
yeah
we can probably capture it back
but thanks, any help appreciated
Memphus says (02:18):
like i said that chariot is pretty much yours you say jump i say how far!
Lord Parkin says (02:19):
heh

Krill says (02:23):
That sucks about the barbs. Just hope it doesn't raze...
but, to stuff that we can affect right now...
Krill says (02:24):
memphus is right that Maths next is probably the right move and we canforward you to gold to keep you researching to get it asap
Krill says (02:25):
After that might need 1 turn of saving gold, but CS could be researched pretty quickly, and by then our cities should be fully grown and capable of 200bpt or so (depending on the needs for units and whatnot)
Lord Parkin says (02:25):
so maths instead of HBR?
Krill says (02:25):
We killed the last kaz chariot and it looks clear
Krill says (02:26):
the barb city should be ours next turn
Lord Parkin says (02:26):
ok, nice
Krill says (02:26):
the only thing is gold to upgrade the archer, and we should be OK for a while
Kaz hasn't really been building units...prepping for newer, stronger units I would imagine...
Memphus says (02:27):
with the forges they don't have

Lord Parkin says (02:27):
heh
Krill says (02:28):
We can probably get HBR...but to play it safe we'll be research polytheism for a short while at 0 tech, and reevaluate in a few turns (t103 I think would be the turn to start research into CS).
Lord Parkin says (02:29):
ok
Lord Parkin says (02:34):
so just to confirm: Saturn switches research to Maths next turn? (Just triple checking I'm not misunderstanding anything.)

Krill says (02:34):
yup
Lord Parkin says (02:34):
ok, cool
Krill says (02:34):
if you agree with that.
Lord Parkin says (02:34):
that works out fine
Maths is our #1 priority right now anyway
Memphus says (02:42):
sweet and if you need $$ to stay at 100% for it just ask for the requried gold!
Lord Parkin says (02:42):
righto, will do
Memphus says (02:45):
ok guys i have to check out! (b) (b) have a great night (day for you LP )
Lord Parkin says (02:45):
yep, see you

Memphus · Jun 15, 2009

Memphus · Jun 15, 2009

Saturn Logged in and Accepted. Based on thier GPT being back to 0 they have science up at 100%!

Memphus · Jun 16, 2009

Keeping LP in the Loop.

BTW now saturn now either way we go with Kaz.

Spoiler :

IamJohn · Jun 16, 2009

What happens when we end up in a 3 vs 2? Do we have a realistic chance of winning if it's just Saturn and us?

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