Saturn Embassy

[Krill]

Normally however that tech isn't as crucial as feudalism is...

How quickly can we raise an army, I'm just concerned about kaz having more then a random scattering of units in the area. Also what happens if cab decides to or is forced to by an alliance to attack? I hate to sound like chamberlain prior to ww2, but we just need to her certain before declaring...

Not great. We can build a military to hold a position on the map, but we are no where near beibng able to build a military to take on a civ in their lands.

We need HBR, maths, masonry and construction before we are at that point, whereas we only need fued to hold the land. Which is exactly why I don't want Kaz getting Fued.

 

[Memphus]

Suggested immidiate letter to Saturn: (3 yes's and it goes) please provide edits. (G_W is extremely busy in RL right now)

Spoiler :

Dear Saturn Allies,
The Ninja’s salute our continued effort in what is becomming an increasingly hostile environment.

As you have seen the Kazakhs are not playing nice. Krill Chatted with you today.
Time is of the essence now as when our turn comes we need to know whether or not to kill their chariot. (and thus go to war).

As such we humbly ask you send them a letter (and provide us a copy) being very stern about the repurcussions of them not backing down.

Following your letter we will once again send something along these lines (responding to thier letter)
Their points in Italics, ours In Bold. (post in your forum it is easier to read)

Spoiler :

This area has been within the Kazakh sphere of influence since the early part of the game and we consider it our territory. We understand that this revelation is disappointing news to your nation, but it is what is it. This city is strategically important to us as well and our claim predates yours.

No The Oracle Directed our first scout here, as such the territory is ours.

We have stayed in the shadow as events have unfolded. When we revealed ourselves to you we did so deliberately and for a very specific reason. We recognized, just as you wisely have, that there is the potential for a conflict between our two peoples. But this conflict can be avoided.

You were in the shadows because it wasn't your territory, hence why as you aprroached it from the second time (our third time) we had units there, and many more on the way.

It is flatly unacceptable to our nation that this city ever becomes part of the SANCTA empire. If this were to occur we would consider it an aggressive attack against our nation and would act accordingly. But we also realize that you have invested time and resources and it has to be disappointing that you must now give up your plans for this city.

While you are the technology leader, our MFG is 2 times yours. Our Forges are set up. Our Power is through the roof. We will not give up our plans for the city. But are you willing to give up your chance at winning the game for it?

So in order to prevent conflict we think the only possible solution is to raze the city. We understand that this is a bitter solution, but we hope you are prepared to wipe out this city in order to ensure peace.

No, razing the city will cause conlflict. So we say again will you withdraw? If not we are going to war.

We would like to include the lack of feudalism threat but will not do so without your blessing.

Please advise on how we are to proceed.


Your Allies,
Memphus, Shogun, SANCTA
words from mouths afar
meant for distant minds and ears
conspiring for good

 

[Krill]

Spoiler :

Namaste Saturn,
The Ninja’s salute our continued effort in what is becoming an increasingly hostile environment.

As you have seen the Kazakhs are not playing nice. Krill chatted with you today.
Time is of the essence now as when our turn comes we need to know whether or not to kill their chariot (and thus go to war).

As such we humbly ask you send them a letter (and provide us a copy) being very stern about the repurcussions of them not backing down. If you would like to discuss the letters with us, we are available on MSN to chat with so that we can design both letters to have maximum impact. We hope that this diplomatic action, if successful, will lead to Kaz backing down for the immediate future, so that we all get to fulfill our obligations to one another

Following your letter we will once again send something along these lines (responding to their letter)

Their points in italics, ours In bold (if post in your forum it is easier to read).

Spoiler :

This area has been within the Kazakh sphere of influence since the early part of the game and we consider it our territory. We understand that this revelation is disappointing news to your nation, but it is what is it. This city is strategically important to us as well and our claim predates yours.

No, The Oracle directed our first scout here, as such the territory is ours.

We have stayed in the shadow as events have unfolded. When we revealed ourselves to you we did so deliberately and for a very specific reason. We recognized, just as you wisely have, that there is the potential for a conflict between our two peoples. But this conflict can be avoided.

You were in the shadows because it wasn't your territory, hence why as you approached it from the second time (our third time) we had units there, and many more on the way.

It is flatly unacceptable to our nation that this city ever becomes part of the SANCTA empire. If this were to occur we would consider it an aggressive attack against our nation and would act accordingly. But we also realize that you have invested time and resources and it has to be disappointing that you must now give up your plans for this city.

While you are the technology leader, our MFG is 2 times yours. Our Forges are set up. Our Power is through the roof. We will not give up our plans for the city. But are you willing to give up your chance at winning the game for it?

So in order to prevent conflict we think the only possible solution is to raze the city. We understand that this is a bitter solution, but we hope you are prepared to wipe out this city in order to ensure peace.

No, razing the city will cause conflict. So we say again will you withdraw? If not we are going to war.

We would like to include the lack of feudalism threat but will not do so without your blessing.

Please advise on how we are to proceed.


Your Allies,
Memphus, Shogun, SANCTA
Words from mouths afar
Meant for distant minds and ears
Conspiring for good

Sorted out some grammer and added the part in bold to the main segment. Thoughts?

 

[Memphus]

yeah i like that better let's send i out

 

[IamJohn]

Looks good to me.

 

[Dreylin]

I think it looks good too.

 

[Krill]

Sent.

 

[Memphus]

Fantastic chat with LP:
They are behind us but want us to be the one to threaten Kaz (which makes sense)
So this turn we go to war, then send a note to Kaz saying smarten up and withdraw or you lose not only Angle, but Feudalism.

Spoiler :

Memphus says:
Yo! get the pm of ivory for silver?
Lord says:
yeah, sent a reply
Lord says:
will get to it soon
Lord says:
so many things to do this afternoon, sorry
Memphus says:
no problem! take you time
Memphus says:
(beer) it is 11PM for me
Memphus says:

Lord says:
heh
Memphus says:
so it seems Kaz missed the message
Memphus says:

Lord says:
actually speaking of that, they just sent us a really ridiculous message
Memphus says:
really?
Lord says:
trying to be all friendly, saying that they had a situation, and asking that we don't trade with you for the time being, suggesting we think about researching something else to trade with them... honestly, how guillible do they think we are when they and their allies have such a big tech lead?
Memphus says:
yeah i mean really they are WAYYY out front
Memphus says:
so we thought we were reasonable
Memphus says:
Angle is closer to us than them...
Memphus says:
we already have 3 untis there (they have 1 that just showed)
Memphus says:
thus it is our territory... (cav did the same to us but we backed off sicne it was closer to them) and they were there first
Lord says:
full message fyi
Lord says:
Greetings Team Saturn,

We are writing to tell you we are having some difficulties with SANCTA. They are threatening a confrontation if we don't cede some strategic territory to them. Right now we kind of feel like Czechoslovakia having to decide whether or not to give up the Sudetenland...

Anyways, we are hoping you will not aid the Ninjas with tech trades in the near future. We'd also like to
Lord says:
explore more trades between our two teams. How is progress going on feudalism? Do you know what turn we will be able to complete the math for feudalism trade?

We're not sure how much exploration you've managed. It would be nice if someone invented maps. The reports we have from our own explorers indicate your country is near three others and the land of the Ninjas (aka SANCTA) lies between your
Lord says:
country and ours. Do these reports jive with your own?

donsig of Kazakhstan
Memphus says:
so how do you intend to respond?
Lord says:
still yet to discuss... only got the message a couple of hours ago
Memphus says:
cool
Memphus says:
seems you guys are the deciding power in this game
Lord says:
but personally I'm fairly ticked off at their attitude towards us, and how stupid they seem to think we are
Lord says:
we haven't even talked to them in ages, and they come along all chirpy when they've clearly already chosen their side
Memphus says:
yeah i mean our forums have been lit up trying to figure out what happened to you so early (we are guesing barb killed settler?)
Lord says:
how do you mean?
Memphus says:
cause your team is very skilled. but seems to have gotten a run of bad luck
Lord says:
wasn't as bad as a lost settler
Memphus says:
well early on you mentioned about bad luck and then missing CoL was brutal
Lord says:
but we just kept missing out on things, and could never explore
Memphus says:
yeah that sucks!
Lord says:
that was the main issue for us... if we'd met other teams earlier, we could have traded techs earlier. That's half the battle in getting ahead
Memphus says:
and us.
Memphus says:
but it seems between the two of us we can catch up pretty quickly.
Memphus says:
especially if we can swing MS
Lord says:
yeah
Lord says:
although I doubt that, watching the tech screen
Memphus says:
yeah but we arn't teching yet fully we have a plan
Memphus says:
CoL was critical for us
Memphus says:
we can discuss further in the next 10 turns, but lets just say that over the next 20 turns our science rate almost quadruples
Memphus says:
(and any and all techs come right your way)
Memphus says:
though we may have to detour to HBR and really hit Kaz...but even so if they don't have feud they can't muster too must defence
Lord says:
righto, sounds good
Lord says:
Okay, official thought that the majority seem to agree with at the moment...
Lord says:
Greetings SANCTA,

We fully support your efforts in securing the barb city. After consideration it does not seem optimal solution to blackmail directly Kazakhstan with Feudalism trade. However we suggest that you add to your ultimatum a part that warns Kazs that you know about Feudalism trade and you'll do everything to convince us to give it up unless they back off. What do you think about this
Lord says:
alternative?

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin of Saturn
Memphus says:
works for me!
Memphus says:
so our plan this turn (so you guys know)
Lord says:
Personally I'm becoming more convinced that a direct and firm word from ourselves to Kaz would be preferable, but some of the rest of my team have some reservations
Memphus says:
and that makes sense!
Lord says:
But for now, you're welcome to state the facts regarding what's gone on with the Feudalism discussion
Memphus says:
so our plan is to kill their chariot this turn (or they could say they are backing off then raze the city themselves)
Memphus says:
then send the letter like we outlined to you, but we will now add in the part of the Feud trade, and if they don't back down they are in risk of losing it (i.e. if they attack us or approach on Angle any more)
Memphus says:
sound fair?
Lord says:
absolutely
Memphus says:
perfect glad we coudl work this out reasonably! (and not with no contact and then buddy buddy when the time calls...aka kaz)
Memphus says:
well have a great turn! we will copy you on our letter to Kaz
Memphus says:
also please do the silverfor ivoryy trade if you can
Lord says:
yeah, don't worry, we would never even consider taking Kaz seriously...
Lord says:
will do so as long as it doesn't make any of our cities unhappy
Lord says:
will have to last a minimum of 10 turns, remember
Memphus says:
it should be a wash +1 for +1
Lord says:
game mechanics
Lord says:
righto
Lord says:
we'll have a second silver soon enough anyway
Memphus says:
perfect!
Memphus says:
and now you can build forges! huge advantage over everyone else
Lord says:
yep
Lord says:
although a bit expensive for some of our cities at the moment
Lord says:
but still nice
Memphus says:
btw we get collosus in 6 or 7 turns (it would seem pretty obvious we are going for it)
Lord says:
yep
Memphus says:
any wonders you gusy want, so we can not make plans for them?
Memphus says:
like Parthenon? Temple of Artemis? (we figure kaz is beelining GL)
Lord says:
yeah, we figured either they or their allies were
Lord says:
no plans at the moment
Memphus says:
cav we figure is going for HG
Lord says:
we desperately need to expand
Memphus says:
good plan!
Lord says:
ok
Memphus says:
you know there is furs to your east right?
Lord says:
yep
Memphus says:
ok cool. and near our borders, to your SE is spices.
Lord says:
cool
Memphus says:
so we can see how you expand, and who is closer in ~20 turns. there is 2 spices so whoever gets send the other spice over
Lord says:
we have Incense too
Lord says:
2 of them
Memphus says:
nice. we have sugar to be hooked up so you get that
Lord says:
cool
Memphus says:
i am excited / nervous for you to play
Memphus says:
cause we have a mid 70% odds agaisn't kaz on our attack
Memphus says:
we have a secodn unit to finish it off, but don't want to lose an axe
Lord says:
ah, right
Lord says:
any promotions available?
Memphus says:
no...he is a Woody III as well so if we lose it will hurt.
Memphus says:
but show kaz how serious we are!
Memphus says:
havign a land route between us is critical!
Memphus says:
we know you would be batting just as hard if it was you parked outside the city!
Lord says:
yep, indeed

 

[Memphus]

Ok Off to Bed. Beenm chatting with LP some more will edit for tags in te morning. (that is why you see me log in and out of the game he kept beeping me)

Spoiler :

Lord says:
ok, done the turn
Memphus says:
sweet thanks for the silver
Lord says:
no problem
Memphus says:
ok so now i guess it is time for war
Lord says:
righto
Lord says:
let me know how it goes
Memphus says:
i will
Memphus says:
here i go
Memphus says:
WOWZA
Memphus says:
chariot killed.
Lord says:
cool
Memphus says:
we had 70% odds
Memphus says:
but...they have another chariot
Memphus says:
but that is all i see. so if it hits us, we kill it next turn (2 axes t odo so)
Lord says:
hmm, okay
Lord says:
are you sure?
Memphus says:
then no more kaz units from what i can see.
Lord says:
is it next to the axe?
Memphus says:
one of the 3 yeah
Lord says:
or 2 tiles away?
Memphus says:
2 tiles away
Lord says:
righto
Lord says:
you'll lose any axe in its path
Memphus says:
yeah but 1 axe to 2 chariots is good for us
Lord says:
I'd protect the woodsman 3 with an axe of less value
Memphus says:
plus we have spears and more axes on thier way
Memphus says:
we plan to
Lord says:
righto
Lord says:
just checking
Lord says:
first proper war in this game, I think?
Memphus says:
yup
Memphus says:
Ms one was fake. i mislicked haha
Lord says:
there were a few declarations earlier for some reason?
Lord says:
heh
Memphus says:
was trying to open diplo but was holding alt
Memphus says:
other one was with us and Cav we refused OB
Memphus says:
so war...we couldnt stop the boat
Lord says:
hmm, okay
Lord says:
interesting to know
Memphus says:
we had no benefit of the OB (no routes) they did. we explained that and said if they offered us something we could do it.
Memphus says:
as such they chose the path of war (we did give that to them as an option though, knowing full well we couldnt stop them)
Lord says:
ok
Lord says:
we should maybe close borders with Cav/Kaz/MS ourselves, since we don't have trade routes
Lord says:
they're benefitting and not us
Memphus says:
yup
Memphus says:
if you have no trades then every turn thie rresearch goes faster for free off of you
Lord says:
yeah
Memphus says:
or ask them to give you something for them see if they help out.
Lord says:
yeah
Memphus says:
alright time for me to get some ZZZ's need the team to vote on another unit move now (sicne we revealed a second chariot)

 

[General_W]

I'm just blasting through here - and wanted to say great work!

Hopefully I'll get more time soon. I got a new laptop - so in theory it'll get easier to connect once I survive the next 4 days or so.

 

[Dreylin]

Have we offered them our Galley yet to secure their routes to us?

 

[Memphus]

Have we offered them our Galley yet to secure their routes to us?

They already have routes. that was confirmed

 

[Krill]

Have we offered them our Galley yet to secure their routes to us?

Not as yet.

 

[Memphus]

Quick Chat With LP:

Spoiler :

Memphus says:
FYI just chatted with Niklas from Cav.
Lord says:
ok...
Lord says:
what about?
Memphus says:
the war on Kaz.
Memphus says:
just wanted to let them know we declared, but only after giving kaz and opportunity to withdraw
Lord says:
I see... what did they have to say?
Lord says:
ok
Memphus says:
well they tried to hit us up for info (location of our borders, capital etc.)
Lord says:
hmm
Lord says:
of course
Lord says:
allies of Kaz...
Memphus says:
yup...
Memphus says:
so they are looking for any reason to determine if the land in dispute was ours or if Kaz have a reasonable claim
Lord says:
ok
Memphus says:
so i coutnered with the distance to this barb city is roughly the same as the one we walked away from near you. (we did that with Cav about ~12 turns ago)
Lord says:
right
Memphus says:
then niklas had to leave.
Memphus says:
i can send you the full chat with him if you need?
Lord says:
sure, over email if you want
Memphus says:
he might be comming back though...but from the soudns of it talkign with Cav is deaf ears...
Lord says:
I'm off to bed
Memphus says:
ok ill wait to see if there is anymore chat.
Memphus says:
if not ill send what we have over.
Lord says:
righto
Lord says:
bye
Memphus says:
night

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Cav knows where our cap is, dont' they? it was them that had the 2nd WB, right? or was it MS? I can't remember.

 

[Memphus]

Cav knows where our cap is, dont' they? it was them that had the 2nd WB, right? or was it MS? I can't remember.

yes but they don't know where angle is. and we don't plan on telling them. They can get that from KAz if they want. Suffice to say it is far enough away that they can't send a resonable force to it.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Just my nitpicky mind at work: I saw this line "well they tried to hit us up for info (location of our borders, capital etc.)" and thought "doesnt' Cav know where our cap is?"

 

[Krill]

No, that's good. Chats always need to be analysed thoroughly after they are posted for possible slips of the tongue.

 

[Krill]

Spoiler :

Namaste Saturn,

We're just informing you of thoughts on our side of the continent. Some of us are throwing around the idea of HBR right now, but we feel beholden to you on currency (As we both want the benfits of the extra trade routes!). Considering the slow road movements, and the units Kaz are fielding (they only got metal in the past 5 turns), Horse Archers (with longbows) would be enough to swing this battle and keep Kaz at bay. Also, we are looking at using War Elephants on the front lines, and HBR is needed for them, so all round HBR seems like a solid tech choice.

We were considering this compromise: We tech currency until it's complete (eot t98), and are left with 0 gold left (we might have a little more, but almost certainly less than 10 gold). Then you send gold to us to research HBR quickly, then we send gold to you to finish Fuedalism. Depending on when you finish Fuedalism that may not be needed.

We feel that for the short-medium term, one team researching and one team funneling gold is the most efficient way to tech and the best way to leverage both of our traits (our cheap libraries to research, and your cheap courthouses for eps against the other teams). Of course, we'd have to coordinate together what techs each team wants, but that is the joy of diplomacy.

As ever, we eagerly await your reply

SANCTA
researching unknowns
Shared dreams and prosperous growth
Paid by small gold things?

PS. Had a chat with Cavs yesterday. Lots discussed, some misinfomation given out, but nothing productive hapened. Attached is the text file. Nothing is annotated, so if you want anythingexplained, just email the questions or ask us in chat and we'll try to do our best.

Rough draft for quick letter to Saturn. Draft is saved in Gmail account along with the entire chat transcript from the cav chat yesterday.

 

[Memphus]

We're just informing you of thoughts on our side of the continent. Some of us are throwing around the idea of HBR right now, but we feel beholden to you on currency (and we want the trade routes). Considering the slow road movements, and the units Kaz are fielding (they only got metal in the past 5 turns), Horse Archers would own.

Change Bold Part to:
As we both want the benfits of the extra trade routes!
Horse Archers would be enough to swing this battle and have them back down.