sc:01 Moddern war

I'm back online now.
I'm up next, but I've not checked the save. Hopefully I'll play tonight.

Well done on sorting out the French. !

I know I said we could drop the detail in the reports a little until we were in the industrial/modern age, but I'd like a little more detail. A screen shot of killing the frogs would have been nice :-)
 
Sorry was in a rush a little this morning.

Civ4ScreenShot0016.JPG

Here is our glorius army reclaiming the city of Athens from the treachourous Frenchies :king:

Civ4ScreenShot0017.JPG

There are a fleet of Galleons harboured in this French port we should be wary if they set sail.

Apart from this there really wasn't anything interesting enough happening to warrant a camra shot.
 
Turn 0 1720AD

preflight.

We need a missionary and workboat to Athribis

I think we might get a canal across the north of the continent. And we have one across the south.
Is it worth doing another one across the north ?


I'm happy with the civics right now, but one of the ideas was to use corps, so we will want to drop out of State Property at some point.

I also seem to remember we needed more workers. There's lots for them to do as we get railroads and gear up the production cities isn't there ?

Kremlin will be in in 10 turns .

turn 1:
A bunch of builds finish.
Herumpf, what to do with the spy....
Heliopolis can run 4 specialists, and has 21EPs at the moment, so that could be commers/EP I think. The GS will generate an extra 20 per turn. I set it to spies and send the Gsp there.

I send out GG over to Amsterdam as that's destind to be troop#1 city. probably the best place for an academy.

Turn 2:
Physics in , set to Corporations so we can get Assembly Line. Infantry are going to be the core of our first army, and we want factories everywhere, so lets get started on those.

I'm inclined to keep the GS from physics for a corporation, but if not, settling him in thebes is probably the best thing to do.

I set him to SLEEP for now.

Ahh, we need MilSci for the military academy.

turn 3:
I lure the Frenchman's galleons out with privateer.

turn 4
The damn French have sneeked past us again. !!

Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


I must have been asleep, they must have been landed for one turn to pillage the quary. Doh !

Only 3 units in the stack though. Fool.



turn 5 1730
I kill them and then get 500 gold from him for his trouble :-)


I do some trades.

wine for fur from charlemagne
Spices for Corn from Darius


Turn 6
Promote Sir Geronimo to level 6 (leadership) so we can build west point in Amsterdam with the Military Tradition that is just in. I thought I was working on Military Science. Hummm...

turn 7
more builds finish.

turn 8
If we really wanted to, then we could run a canal through Thebes, (marked) but I don't think it's worth it.

turn 9
Mil Sci in, switch to Assembly line. Infantry are our first unit we can actually invade other continents with, and we want factories everywhere. (We still need combustion for the troop carriers though)

Mil Acad in Amsterdam.

turn 10
The Kremlin is in. I set Memphis to build wall St as it's our main gold city.

I've built some spies. We probably want them to run counter-espionage once we start war, and we'll want one in each city. There's still a bunch more need building.

We can vote to stop trading with Isabella. I say Yes.



We also need a discussion about our war plans.
We'll get Industrialization in the next turnset, and combustion in the following one.
As much as I'd like to teach the French a lesson, I think we should leave him until last to try to provide a challenge in the modern age.

The only “trouble” is, if we sweep across the western continent, then we'll get the domination victory without any serious challenge. So, I think we should aim for conquest. A domination will be classed as a loss :-) What do people think ?

Based on that premise, I'd say we want to land in spain, and then push north, burning and pillaging everything in our path.

IMO, only WW2 units and beyond should be allowed to cross the see.
So, that's infantry, cavs, artillery. Oil burning ships.
Do we want to gift any techs to the AIs to the east too ? I'd like them up to modern age when we go after them. The idea after all was to learn modern war, ground, air and sea.


There's a missionary on goto up north, and I think there's still a Great Scientist in SLEEP that I'm waiting to use on a corporation. Feel free to override that if you think it makes sense.
 
No save, so I can't say a whole lot, but the war itinerary sounds about right. De Gaulle and Hammurabi are buddies, so they won't fight each other, and will instead progress tech wise (and vassal Monty obviously won't be fighting them either). Meanwhile, there are fights going on between Charlie and Darius, so they'll bog themselves done. We should probably burn them out and vassalize them, so they can reoccupy their territory without leaving it open for De Gaulle.

Just keep in mind that Hammurabi built the SoZ, so when we invade him, we'll want to do it quickly, because we'll get rocked by WW otherwise.
 
Doh. Here's the save.

If we vasalise them, won't we still hit the domination limit ? (or is it conquest, I forget)
 
Conquest truly is a real man's victory condition. The problem is that, the units we use for De Gaulle's continent will be annoying to get over to Isabella's. Anyone up for 2 fronts?
 
I think we're doing Izzy's first.

But, isn't it just a case of loading up the troop carriers and doing a round the world tour ?

We want a stong navy to keep de-gaul and the rest off the western continent (lets call that spain) while we sterilize it.

Although, using air drops could be tricky. there shouldn't be a problem of having one or two military base cities over there, we just don't want all of it to hit the domination limit.
 
Got it.

I loled at the giant yellow line drawn through the continent at Thebes. I can tell you immediately that it won't work though, because Thebes is not a coastal city. Also, we'd need a city built on that Workshop, and Byblos stops that.

The north canal will work if we build a city up there. I don't remember the exact rules, but I think it needs to be on the tile north of the beaver on the hill (to be safe).

Err... actually wait... scratch that. Looking at how the south canal works, I'm not too sure anymore. I believe up north will work without a city now, although I'm still skeptical about Thebes, and I don't want to demolish the tile improvements for no reason.

As for domination... vassals contribute half their land and population to the master for those calculations. If we vassalize an entire continent, we should be just below the domination threshold.

The problem is, that I'm not sure if they count as eliminated or not for the purposes of conquest... It would be a real pain to have to sail between continents to raze brand new cities.


Will probably play late tomorrow.
 
A canal through Thebes!?! Absolutely not!

Also, I would've used the great spy for scotland yard in our National park city. It wouldn't add much now, but imagine after it is set up and running 6-8 spy specialists...

Lastly, I'm in favor of taking it to CdG first. I've never been a fan of leaving the strongest for last. Besides, the dude tried to invade us... HE MUST PAY!

Edit:
Vassals do count towards conquest, as long as you don't hit the domination limit first. On a side note, if the conditions for both domination and conquest are met on the same turn, then domination is the official vic given in the HoF becuase that's the first one the games checks for.
 
Lurker's Comment:

Just wondering: where on the tech tree are you guys? Beelining Combustion or Steam Power looks like the best idea; you get Railroads, Levees, Oil and Destroyers; all useful on an Archipelago (okay, maybe not the Levees...)
 
The canal through Thebes wasn't a serious idea.

The rules seem to be to be that either a fort, or a city must be next to a body of water to allow a boat through. What I'm not sure on is if we can build a fort outside of our cultural boarders.

We should be able to put enough navy power in the sea to stop the French from re-invading Spain with any seriousness.

I guess the point is, the aim of the SG is to practice modern war. Land, sea and air. We're not going to do that if we take the french down first. It might not quite be a walk in the park, but it will be close. We're not far behind CdG even before building our army. Once we switch to military production, we'll easily be the most powerful.

@Gooblah.
I think the tech path is pick up industrialization for infantry, then get combustion for transports, then flight.
Doing that means we can take care of the Spanish continent while building our air power for France.

Maybe we need to declare on everybody at once so we can take care of any french colonists while we take care of spain.

Or, maybe we just go into word editor to remove domination as a victory condition ?
 
Took a look at the save. Not much to comment about.

Next tech after Ass. Line. should be RR, followed by combustion. After that, we should pick up bio and build the national park.

Also, we have a scientist sitting in Thebes, I suggest building an academy in Helio. Otherwise we could use him for a GA, but I'd rather save that for later GP's (national park city).
 
1740AD (380):

Preflight check. Hmm my numbered text documents say this is my ninth turnset. Oh how time flies.

It looks like the next little while will be used for gearing up for the main purpose of this game! Modern War! Ok, let's take a survey of the empire.

Avaris is junk, as previously mentioned several times. It's building a bank with a base commerce of 12. I'm hard pressed to figure out what to make of this. At our current gold rate, that's an extra 2 gold per turn when the bank finishes. But it's already more than halfway done, so I'll let it finish. Gonna put it on perma spies afterwards though.

Giza's drydock is almost done, and boy we have lots of production options here. There is also a cottage built here that could be a watermill. With State Property, Workshops pay for themselves, and watermills are better than farms until Biology shows up (which is soonish). Gonna run that cottage over with a worker when I can find one.

Thebes Levee is almost done. Monster science in this town. I note Aristotle is sleeping in the town. Hit F1 and note a GP is due in Amsterdam in 9 turns. Massive GPP pollution though, and the best chance is for a Prophet. IMO, the best Corporations need an Engineer or a Merchant to found (Mining and Sushi). The Scientist Corps are useless, because they're only good if you lack the resource. We don't need Standard Ethanol for sure (I count 5 oil resources in our territory, and there's also the icy island with an oil), and I seriously doubt that we are without Aluminum, as our continent spans all latitudes, with some awful icy regions. Both those corps are basically useless, and just going to waste our cash, so Aristotle gets settled in Thebes.

Ramesses is a production town, building a grocer. Nuff said, switch to a worker due to our chronic workforce shortages.

Abydos is building a Galleon, and I must've missed the memo that said we were invading people with Galleons... Hit F5 and notice the handy military adviser says we have no Galleons, so this must be an oversight. The place is low on health, so order up a cheap aqueduct.

Damn, security bureau at Elephantine is expensive. Good production yet still takes 8 turns. But security bureaus make it so we don't need a spy in garrison, so that's always good.

Akhetatan is building a spy and has no security bureau. Order one up first, because that is extra EPs and serves the same purpose in defense.

Navajo is building a caravel... switch to security bureau.

The lumbermills at Pithom were a good idea, but perhaps we didn't need so many. The city won't get large enough to use them all before we have to switch them into forest preserves (funny that you can preserve a forest that you lumbermilled :P).

Cleaned up the specs a bit so there is less GPP pollution in our major cities. It probably doesn't matter now though.

1742AD (381):

Spoiler :
set9APvote.jpg


lol, did we forget that Izzy was a good trading partner? We now have to find a new trading partner for cows, and we lost 8gpt.

In other news, Izzy popped a Great Prophet, and a forest popped near Avaris onto a Tundra hill, making it marginally better. Also, our EPs are pouring in and we have an advantage on everyone now.

Ok, go to Charlie and get 10gpt for that sugar we were trading with Izzy. Liz also has Cows, so get that from her for corn.

Asyut finished its library and is missing a harbor, so go for that.

I notice Liz is researching Assembly Line also. Then I look at the foreign adviser and relax a bit. We are up so many techs on everyone that it's not even funny.

Spoiler :
set9tech-lead.jpg


1744AD (382):

Ramesses finishes its worker, but still doesn't need a grocer, so I go for a security bureau first.

Consulting the Civilopedia (yes I still need to use it), I note that only lumbermills, mines, and quarries will benefit from rails, so no need to road over watermills. Worker goes to do other stuff.

Wow, England has a Frigate. Gonna keep those privateers away from that.

Thebes Levee is done, so ordering an Intelligence Agency before we get to the units.

Giza Drydock is done, and this city is gravy. Order a Levee.

Lisht Drydock is done, and it's nowhere near caps, and can't use commerce buildings, so order up a rifleman.

1746AD (383):

Workboat is done in Athens, so re-net the clams. Also, someone gets a great spy, but I didn't look fast enough (and stupid event logger has been crashing me).

Clean up a bunch of enemy ships with Privateers. First Strike Privateers are rocking! It's nice to take no damage.

1748AD (384):

Nada. Didn't even sink a ship.

1750AD (385):

Spoiler :
set9assembly-line.jpg


We can build the Pentagon! Which we obviously want!

Next tech is a toughie. Facism gives a free GG, which is not that great, and Liz is already researching it (3 turns, we would also take 3 turns, so not sure who would get it). However, I'm drooling over all the other techs.

Railroads gives... well... railroads! Also unlocks Mining Inc, which would rock, except we won't get it unless we can magically summon a Great Engineer from somewhere. Finally unlocks Machine Guns, which are just uber considering all the collateral damage that gets used. They make excellent second stream defenders when everything else has been beat to hell by siege.

Biology boosts farms and lets us build the national park.

Electricity gives shelters for bombing and nuking, which aren't too useful since we are taking the fight to the enemy. Broadway is probably not necessary, so the best it gives is gold boost to waterwheels. But it's needed to unlock industrialism.

Artillery is gravy and gives artillery, but we are not going to war just yet, and we need more other units than just artillery.


So railroad wins out! In 6 turns! The sooner we're hooked up with rails, the better. NE done in 2 turns at Pithom, but we need a forge badly, as well as espionage buildings to run spies!

Kahun's Courthouse finished, so we dial up a forge there too.

1752AD (386):

Abydos finished the Aqueduct and wants to go back to the Galleon. I scoff and order a factory.

Giza is done its Levee, and can now start the Pentagon, but I order a 1 turn Aqueduct first, because it's about to hit it's health limit.

Athribis finally gets Islam.

Edfu's Forge is done, so switch the free spec over, and order up a harbor.

1754AD (387):

Aztecs apparently make good truffles. I've never seen that Random Event before...

Giza Aqueduct is done. I pause... Drooling over the factory. Ok, dial a 4 turn Factory, and THEN we'll do Pentagon (actually someone else will). If we miss it, my fault for the BS.

Busiris is done it's courthouse, but it sucks. So we'll just use it to build spies.

1756AD (388):

Damnit. Between turns, De Gaulle sunk two of our privateers with Frigates! Ok, should ran before. Last Privateer flees, along with the other privateer group.

Thebes IA is done, go for a Factory, because factories are keen.

Elephantine also goes for a factory, but we'll have to watch this town as it'll hit the health cap when we get oil hooked up.

Sparta Security Bureau is done, and we have plenty of health here, so a Factory too!

Avaris bank is done O.o. Ok, Factory will take 22 turns, which sucks, but infantry will take 13 turns, so this city needs help to contribute. Factory again.

Pithom done the NE, order a Forge because it needs some production help.

Heliopolis also goes for a factory. Problematic health as well though, will cottage the farm to stop its growth.

1758AD (389):

Ramesses is back to wanting its grocer. I'll let it build this time, because the extra health will be needed to run the factory.

Athens Grocer is done, order an Islamic temple, because that got demolished by our buddy De Gaulle.

Byblos Bureau -> Aqueduct needed before factory.

1760AD (390):

NICE!

Spoiler :
set9greatengineer.jpg


Morton heads straight for Memphis to found Mining Inc next turn when Railroad is discovered (I guess we switch to Free Market too). I guess we did magically get a Great Engineer! Mining Inc will give us 15 extra hammers per city, which is just SICK, in far too many ways. (Giza has a base hammer production of 45. 15 extra base hammers! EVERYWHERE we spam Mining Inc!)

Lisht Infantry is done, of course order a Factory.

Navajo also dials up a Factory.

Akhetaten goes for an Aqueduct first due to, again, lousy health.

Hieraconpolis finishes a grocer, but is pretty bleh. Could use a factory too (who DOESN'T want a factory? :P), but needs more health first, so Aqueduct it is.

Asyut lacks production, so factory. Probably not a good idea, but we can change it since this is the pass off turn.


Railroads in NEXT TURN! I'm sold on Mining Inc, I think the benefits are just too good (15 hammers!), but we will take major hits almost everywhere switching out of state property. Distance maintenance returns, and we lose the food from the workshops and waterwheels, which means more farms to compensate (so Biology is DEFINITELY the next tech). But really, all of the pales in comparison to 15 more hammers for every city. Having Memphis maxed out on commerce buildings will also ensure that we are not losing that much money to the corporation.

ROSTER
1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver <-- Just Played --
3: Madtown **UP NOW**
4: Quotey <-- On Deck --
5: Mighty Dwarf
 

Attachments

Got it. Looks like a goos set S.ilver.

I still think that building an academy in Helio would've netted better returns than settling though, but it's not a big deal considering our lead.

One question though:

Shouldn't we create the corp headquarters in Memphis since that's our Wall street city? The corp HQ earns 5 :gold: per city so WS should multiply it and ameliorate the maintenance payments.
 
I think I said that Morton was heading for Memphis. He'll make it there next turn (we can revolt to free market and stuff...). Wall Street, plus the other commerce boosting buildings should generate enough cash to offset the expenses of running the corporate offices (which I think are counted as maintenance expenses? The estimates should drop once we're in Free Market.)

The Academy probably would've been better. Sadly I didn't read your post before hand :( (was playing).
 
1740AD (380):


Avaris is junk, as previously mentioned several times. It's building a bank with a

I *think* I wanted it to pay for it self, so we could forget about it. Probably a bit silly really.

Ramesses is a production town, building a grocer. Nuff said, switch to a worker due to our chronic workforce shortages.
That was for the health. My thinking was build the grocer for health, then we don't need to worry about that as it builds a factory and troops once we have production line.

Abydos is building a Galleon, and I must've missed the memo that said we were invading people with Galleons...

I figured we wanted one to put out spies onto.

Damn, security bureau at Elephantine is expensive. Good production yet still takes 8 turns. But security bureaus make it so we don't need a spy in garrison, so that's always good.

Akhetatan is building a spy and has no security bureau. Order one up first, because that is extra EPs and serves the same purpose in defense.
Ahh, I didn't know it worked as an either/or situation. Thanks.

Navajo is building a caravel... switch to security bureau.
:blush:


lol, did we forget that Izzy was a good trading partner? We now have to find a new trading partner for cows, and we lost 8gpt.
:blush:



Good set though.
Yes, GEng for mininc inc. and spam those corp execs.
It will be interesting to see if the maintenance costs are offset, or nearly offset HQing it in Wall St city.

I'm guessing once factories are up, we want to start spamming Infantry too don't we ?
 
I see your point about Ramsesses now, so it looks like the worker was :smoke: and I just delayed the factory. :crazyeye: Although starting next turn, the workers will be busy for a while.

Yeah, I've read that the security bureau acts as a spy on defense, so we don't need an actual spy standing there. Which is handy, because then we can send them somewhere else.

Let's see... Each city with the corp in it gives the "wonder" build in the founding city +4gpt, which is great. This gold is multiplied just like shrine income, so in the Wall Street city, it's an extra 200% (market, grocer, bank, wall st.). So that's basically +12gpt per turn per city with the corp. This is pure gold, and not commerce, so it can only be used to balance the budget or spending on upgrading stuff and the like. It can't be redirected into beakers or culture or whatever, because it's not commerce :(.

Looking at the corp screen the way we are right now, the most expensive city will be Edfu, with an upkeep cost of 20gpt each turn. However, when we revolt into Free Market, we get a 25% discount on corp upkeep, so that's 15gpt. However, corp upkeep is calculated and counted as city maintenance (along with distance to palace and # of cities), so it gets slashed by courthouses as well. So the upkeep for Edfu, which is our most expensive city, will be 7.5gpt, and let's round up to be safe (don't know the rounding rules that Civ uses) and say it's 8gpt.

Since money for paying maintenance is not subtracted from commerce, we aren't damaging the prospects of the city. Maintenance is paid from our bank account, which is being supplemented by the corporation income. Which basically means, so long as we have courthouses everywhere, the corp is going to make money for us, AND give us 15 shields everywhere. We win all around.

EDIT: lol, on a completely unrelated note, how did you make those highlighter marks across Thebes and the north? And how do you erase them?
 
Actually, in many cases a caravel is better than a galleon for spy transport because it can enter rival territory w/out OB. Might be good to have one or two around, no more than that though.

@ S.ilver: you can draw and delete those lines by entering the strategy layer. Zoom out of the map a bit and it should be one of the icons on the bottom right sie of the screen. This is also another way to create signs.



Tasks for my turn:

-found Mining Inc. and spread it across the land
-research RR --> combustion
-update worthy garrisons to infantry, delete and replace the rest
-build rails everywhere (maybe a few more workers too)

Hopefully I'll play tonight, but no promises as I'm brewing a maibock.
 
@ S.ilver: you can draw and delete those lines by entering the strategy layer. Zoom out of the map a bit and it should be one of the icons on the bottom right sie of the screen. This is also another way to create signs.
Other way? I thought that was hte only way. What's the way of doing it without zooming out ?
 
As far as I know with corps is the more benefit you get the more it costs the target city in maintenance. Generally though cost isn't a problem if you have HQ in your Wall Street city. I normally use the food corporations so that you can use specialist to be flexible to boost what each city specialises in e.g scientists in Sci cities, Merchants in Shrine cities, Eng's in production cities.

I'm looking in manual and its saying that Mining Inc gives Gold per resource rather than production?? Creative Constructions is the Engineer corp that gives production per resource, but this requires combustion??

Also I dont think enemy spies will be a huge problem in this game as we have no land borders. As long as we "persuade" ships to not come close to our borders then non can land.
 
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