sc:01 Moddern war

Yeh, I did leave the carriers un-defended. :blush: My excuse is they are still more than a match for frigates.

So, we found sushi, but only spread it to the smaller cities.
It's probably useful to spread it to cities we just take over too, as that will stop them starving down like Saxon did.

Sushi would let larger cities run more specialists though. And if you add the industrial park, then that's feeds into more engineers. But, we don't really need that yet. It's money we need right now.

I knew there was no OB with Darius. I *think* I knew the plains would just be lost. but good to remember anyway.

I think getting the religions from west and brining them home is an excellent idea.
 
I think getting the religions from west and brining them home is an excellent idea.


An excellent idea... yes.

A tedious and mostly unecessary idea... probably.

If players want to bother, by all means do so. If it were an SP game I was playing, I likely wouldn't waste the time.
 
Fine to put in place a permanent colony razing force on the other Continent? De Gaulle has already settled a city there.....

There are so many islands on this map, I pity the persno who has to wipe put Hammurabi.
 
Get the new acquisitions popping their borders as fast as possible once out of revolt. Less territory to worry about razing out that way. After we're done there, leave a contingent of tanks for razing duty.

For the islands, we're basically just loading up on Marines. Just make some transport/destroyer teams and load em with marines for island razing. Fun stuff.
 
An excellent idea... yes.

A tedious and mostly unecessary idea... probably.

If players want to bother, by all means do so. If it were an SP game I was playing, I likely wouldn't waste the time.

Yeah, it is pretty tedious spreading foreign religions around, so it's probably not worth the trouble, so long as we are ok with the current size of the cities. If we want to run more specs (also not necessary), we will need the extra happiness.
 
Tedious as hell. Okay if I declare on Liz, right? I'm going to assess her millitary tommorow and make a decision if it is okay.
 
EDIT: Huh? Double post?
 
I think Simon wanted to save Liz for last on that continent. Something about a "challenge". It doesn't matter either way for me, but we better have a tidal wave worth of tanks because Liz has herself set up pretty good with Machine Guns and Infantry defending her cities.

EDIT: Hmm... Maybe Liz first would be the best idea. If we declare on Darius, Hammurabi will declare on us, bringing extra enemies into the fray before they're necessary.
 
OK. I'm cool with Liz as the first target.
But, I'd like the challenge to be how we can open her up with least damage to us. Yes, we'll loose some of course. But I don't want to just rely on huge numbers. Where's the fun in that. :-)

Keep an eye on where CdG is popping up cities. If it looks like he's doing too many, ro putting too many troops in them feel free to declare and sink is ships mid ocean.

And about new religions. We could bring one or two back to deal with happy in a few key cities, but I'm not bothered about spreading them around, building cathedrals etc. It's just not needed now.

Tech wise, lets plan where we're going for the next war. This one has been with WWII era units. I guess the next one will be with mechinf + jets + guided missiles.
 
I'd actually say we can probably ignore any city buildup that De Gaulle or Hammurabi wants to create. They don't have the benefit of Versailles (and probably not their forbidden palace either), so upkeep will be killer for those cities, and they'll be small and unable to do much. If they ship over troops to defend them, it will make them marginally harder to capture, while making the conquest of their home continent even easier.
 
I lost the save in a damn hard drive crash :really god damn angry:

I know it's a lot to ask, but could I do a swap? I won't be able to play until next Saturday, or maybe Friday, as I have lots of exams.
 
Ok, I guess it's mine now, so I got it. Sometime tomorrow evening probably. See how much damage can be done to Spain and prep for the invasion of England.
 
lurker's comment:
Really nice job so far. I have a suggestion: when you were contemplating switching to free market you mentioned workshops might not be as useful since they reduce tile yield by 1 food. However, with Free Market you can get either Sid's Sushi or Cereal Mills and supplement the lost food so you can continue using workshops. That means you get sustain workshops and keep the production from the corporation; in others you get the best of both worlds (assuming you can turn a profit though since it would kind of be too hard on your economy if it didn't).
 
@Quotey: OK Sh*t happens from time to time.
I'll put you on skip until your exams are over. Let us know when you have the time to play again.

Silver/Madtown, while we're down to three again, I'm OK with the time between turns slowing down if people have other commitments etc. feel free to take an extra 24 hours (72) and if it's a time consuming war, (with detailed post :-) ) then dropping turns isn't a problem either.
 
lurker's comment:
Really nice job so far. I have a suggestion: when you were contemplating switching to free market you mentioned workshops might not be as useful since they reduce tile yield by 1 food. However, with Free Market you can get either Sid's Sushi or Cereal Mills and supplement the lost food so you can continue using workshops. That means you get sustain workshops and keep the production from the corporation; in others you get the best of both worlds (assuming you can turn a profit though since it would kind of be too hard on your economy if it didn't).

True, but at that time we lacked both a GM to found either of those corps and their required techs were still a ways away. Plus, it was more about losing the extra benefit given from state property rather than the base yield from the workshops.
 
True, but at that time we lacked both a GM to found either of those corps and their required techs were still a ways away. Plus, it was more about losing the extra benefit given from state property rather than the base yield from the workshops.
Oh yeah, I know, I was saying you could found Sid's Sushi right now and keep the benefits (unless someone else founded it, or you can't get a Great Merchant), but what do you mean you didn't want the extra benefit (I remember in the first post that one of the goals was to use corporations, is that what you were refering to?)? (wow, half this post is in parenthesis :) )
 
Well, we get refrigeration in 5ish turns, and I THINK we have a Great Merchant sitting around somewhere, so we'll get Sushi.

I'm starting to play it now, but there are A LOT of units. First turn, seizing some Spanish cities and tinkering takes a good 30 minutes O.o
 
1860AD (450):

Ahhh... It's been a while since I've pulled off modern warfare (last time I did it was with Churchill versus Carthage, and I wasn't prepared and needed nukes). Here, however, it looks like things are under good control.

Dial science down to 50%, because it's bleeding away fast due to unit maintenance. Medicine is now at 5 turns (no biggie).

First off, move the dessie stack to cover the carriers. Don't want any surprises, although Izzy doesn't have any nearby ships.

Amsterdam takes a 2 turn break from military to dial up a Mosque. That will let us rehire the 3 specs.

Everything else looks good, so hit enter.

1861AD (451):

Our spy in Newcastle gets nailed by the English, so we probably took a rep hit.

We are also declared as the largest Civ. Yay.

Spoiler :
set11largestciv.jpg


AP vote gives us a victory, largely meaningless of course.

A whole bunch of stuff finishes this turn, and there's a huge scrolling list down the side of my screen. Nice. More troops to deploy to the front.

At Salamanca, Simon nicely leveled the defenses for me already. Let's take a look at the troop contingent outside.

Spoiler :
set11salamancatroops.jpg


Holy hell, that's a lot of units. No wonder our maintenance sucks.

Alright, so promote a CR/Barrage tank and it goes in and dies with 82% odds against a rifleman. Now I remember what I dislike about Modern warfare. A barrage artillery then dies, and I stop with the foolishness and use some marines to kill a SAM.

Further attacks yield no losses, and Salamanca burns via marine and infantry attacks. Saving the tanks from moving so they can heal.

Spoiler :
set11salamanca.jpg


Santiago is pretty trivial with 3 defenders, and it's taken without losses. Install troops in there.

Spoiler :
set11santiago.jpg


We get another GG in Thebes.

Spoiler :
set11lysander.jpg


Meanwhile, I REMEMBER the GG that is in Amsterdam. With 2 GGs I elect to stick both of them in Giza to provide level 3 units off the bat.

Navajo gets a Mosque as well to combat the 3 unhappy citizens. Helio also goes for a Mosque. So does Alexandria.

Alright... For the invasion plan of England. Darius has shared borders with England at Hastings, so we could plant some spies there and grab it on turn one of the declaration. Canterbury and York are both port cities, and Marines own both arties and machine guns, both of which we'll see a lot of fighting Liz. We just need to get some transports over there by sailing them through Spanish waters at the south. There are a bunch of empty transports near Darius' east coast, and I assume this was the plan for them, but even if it wasn't, it'll be pretty effective, and give us more maneuvering space almost immediately at Saxon. Warwick and Newcastle are pretty trivial to burn out with Tanks, and that's what we want to do, because keeping them is useless. That leaves Nottingham and London, which will be tougher to take because we need to walk there (Coventry will fall to the old marine battalion).

A crapload of builds finished this turn, the majority of which were bombers and AT units. However, the enemy has no tanks yet (even Liz has no tanks), so for the time being they are fairly useless power 14 units, but will join the stacks anyways. Even when Liz gets tanks, I'm not convinced they are dangerous, because arty attacks will heavily damage tanks, and they can be mopped up by our own tanks.

Most builds this turn go to marines, for upcoming amphibious landing of Liz. We also order up some tanks.

1862AD (452):

Another spy got nailed in Newcastle and Liz canceled Iron for Pigs. Shrug. Ok, so we pay less maintenance for Mining Inc, that's fine.

lol, Amsterdam is done it's Mosque and is STILL pissed. Oh well. At least it won't grow to be more pissed.

1863AD (453):

Use bombers to resize the defenders in Cordoba. Follow up with Amphibious Artillery who still have ridiculous odds. Suddenly everything in Cordoba is at less that 25% health with no losses to us (some damage to the bombers and arties, but who cares).

Marines go in and clear out, sending a drill Infantry in last to put the torch to Cordoba.

Spoiler :
set11cordoba.jpg


We win some gold, and a worker. Drop off a machine gun to help cover them too.

The landing force, fresh off the victory, sails south and find Toledo defended by 3 riflemen. 3 Marines with Pinch clear them out, and drop off the other machine gun to defend the marine until he can get back on the boat next turn.

Spoiler :
set11toledo.jpg


Another two transports reach the attack force sailing around the Spanish horn.

1864AD (454):

In the inturn, Izzy attacks the northern infantry/machine gun combo, who are guarding the captured worker, with around 5 artillery and a SAM. The Machine gun died and the Infantry is greviously wounded. I have no extraction plan for the remaining infantry, so I disband it and the worker. Better to not give free XP.

Fleet is at Seville now, where it meets up with the carriers. There are 3 riflemen in Seville. Buzz the city with planes and then send in the marines. Seville burns.

Spoiler :
set11seville.jpg


Unload 3 Infantry to cover the marine. The fleet is out of movement, so not going anywhere.

Mass builds finish each turn, so I'll stop mentioning that. I will say I ordered a round of transports this turn, and will probably order more next turn, as we need more because I rerouted some for the English Naval Invasion.

1865AD (455):

In the inturn, Izzy attacks the three infantry guarding the marine with a Cav, and it gets pasted. They see no other action though. Izzy is on the rocks. Also, a spy in Saxon sabotages the forge. Going to reroute one of our spies up there.

Spoiler :
set11medicine.jpg


I muse, and go with Rocketry. Liz is researching it in 2, but will not be on talking terms very soon. And we're looking to kill Izzy, not capitulate her and get Rocketry. 7 turns for Rocketry. Ecology might be a good choice afterwards too.

Marching army has reached Barcelona. I neglected to bring any artillery, but 12 planes based in various cities have been pounding the defenses down, and this turn, they halve the health of all the units sitting there. Send in the marines and infantry.

Spoiler :
set11barcelona.jpg


Keep it, and will rebase planes there from Darius' territory.

Losing almost 200 gold a turn (being kept afloat by pillaging), so I'm going to start building some non-military stuff in cities. Spring for some airports in health appropriate cities.

1866AD (456):

In the inturn, Izzy collaterals Barcelona with an Artillery. Too bad all the units still have their promotions, and that the defender was a Marine. Izzy is down to 4 units in Madrid. Fun.

I REMEMBER about the GM we have in Memphis. Found Sid's Sushi. Realize that we have to stop working foods in Memphis, because it will otherwise grow and become pissed. MM it and get more specs out of it. Yum.

1867AD (457):

Lots of shifting of units this turn. Nothing much else. Izzy should be done next turn (unless she has something up her sleeve).

Stacks are in place to attack Liz next turn. Units are at Hastings, a big stack waits near Warwick, and the Navy is poised to take York.

1868AD (458):

One of our 3 spies in Madrid gets nailed, oh well. Izzy is about to die, so might as well spend espionage points. Can't steal Rocketry (need like 15k points for that, ugh), so will get some cash back. Stole 1007 gold. Yay.

Bomb the city with planes from Santiago and Barcelona. Marines rush in.

Spoiler :
set11madrid.jpg


Spain is dead.

Let's roll Liz!

Spoiler :
set11englandwar.jpg


We have a million boats outside York, so I use them to bomb out the defenses, and then buzz the walls with planes. Still not a great result, as our units have 25% victory chance, so send in the suicide arties! Use the CR2 one first to damage the defending marine as well, and it dies, but does it's job. Second one is barrage and does well too. Then I promote a Combat 3 marine to take out the Machine Gun.

Remaining units are taken out by cleanup marines and York is ours.

Spoiler :
set11york.jpg


Unload 10 units, including assorted CG infantry into the city. Fleet sails north to Canterbury. Bomb the city with destroyers, and use the planes in Saxon to buzz the walls. Send in a suicide collateral tank at 41% and he wins! Yay.

Oh wow... Machine guns AREN'T immune to the collateral damage from Tanks... This could be important to remember as Liz has lots of MGs.

Ok, whatever Canterbury is ours.

Spoiler :
set11canterbury.jpg


Move the ships in and unload all units, fortifying them. Move the ships OUT again afterwards (ships in port are useless).

At Hastings, a spy causes a revolt, neutralizing the cultural defense.

Liz has 2 CG infantry in the city (only 2 huh...) so I drop a pair of suicide arties on their heads. Realize that was a waste as this stack has a ton of tanks, so send them in as cleanup.

Spoiler :
set11hastings.jpg


Shove all units into Hastings to cut our upkeep by 30 gold this turn. Also rebase the remaining planes in Persia into Hastings.

Liverpool gets owned and autorazed by a tank for 7 gold. Liz also planted another city, Norwich, north of Warwick, which also gets autorazed, but only for 2 gold.

Warwick burns to tanks, which I lose two of because I didn't notice the Guerrilla 2 Infantry sitting on a hill city... O.o

Spoiler :
set11warwick.jpg


We have some... uh... happiness problems due to all the lost resources we were getting from Liz. No matter though. They'll be ours soon enough.

1869AD (459):

Liz attacks our fleet with airships in the inturn. Ok... I was expecting more. She did move a 7 unit stack next to Saxon.

Raze out Oxford with a (singular) blitzing tank.

Spoiler :
set11oxford.jpg


Liz also founded Brighton up there and it is autorazed for 3 gold.

Pound on the 7 unit stack with planes (Liz JUST got rocketry and is researching flight, so she's defenseless against our planes). Kill 6 of 7 units with the units in Saxon, leaving a beat up artillery because I don't feel like having some of our troops outside.

1870AD (460):

Still no attacks except for random airship bombardment. We lose a granary to a spy in Santiago though. Boo...

Dover, a tiny town to the south of York gets autorazed by a single CR3 tank.

Realize that supply needs to be paid for ships outside our borders, so shove the fleet into York.

I totally ignore the defenses in Newcastle and rush it with CR tanks. It falls.

Spoiler :
set11newcastle.jpg


Bomb out Coventry with a Battleship and planes, but still don't take off all the defense. Also can't seem to do amphibious bombardment with the arties, so will sit on the invasion for a turn.



Stacks are approaching London and Nottingham, supported by heavy air cover of bombers. Geronimo's stack is 2 turns from sacking London.

Spoiler :
set11londonstack.jpg


There is a smaller stack approaching Nottingham in 3 turns, with loose tanks hanging around too.

Spoiler :
set11nottinghamstack.jpg


Finally, a small fleet is outside Coventry, ready to take it next turn. The machine gun in there won't take damage from the artillery, so if there are any planes left after removing cultural defenses, save them until the machine gun is on top of the stack.

Spoiler :
Well, the board claims I can only have 20 images in my post, and this is the 21st. I'll make a new post for it.




ROSTER
2: S.ilver <-- Just Played --
3: Madtown ** Up Now **
1: Simon_c <-- On Deck --
4: Quotey
 

Attachments

Coventry assault fleet.

Spoiler :
set11coventrystack.jpg


EDIT: Some random observations, some about the game, and others about Modern Warfare in general...

The revelation about machine guns at Canterbury doesn't look good for machine guns. When fortified in cities, they can decently handle marines when taking no collateral damage, but since barrage tanks can mess them up, they lose a lot of value. I guess it also stands to reason that they can be bombed by air power. Their window of use is actually pretty bad in that case. Although they are great counters to Infantry, which is basically the next unit in the line, one or two techs later brings units that can wreck havoc on them, in the form of Tanks or even fighters (airships might do decently against them as well).

De Gaulle and Hammurabi both have Fission. This could be bad for us, because desperate AIs build and use nukes. Luckily, neither of them have Rocketry yet (De Gaulle doesn't even have Rifling, what is he doing???), but I don't think we should wait around for that. We should get Mass Media ASAP and get the UN, so we can ban nukes when they come. It'll also ensure we don't get forced into ridiculous resolutions (although I'm pretty sure we have a blocking majority right now).

Red Cross goes in Sparta, along with the next Great General we pop (I would've suggested Giza, but we apparently decided that Mt. Rushmore should go there). Sparta should then build non-stop gunpowder units. The power of Red Cross is not that is gives medic 1 units, but that medic 1 units can immediately get March. March, IMO, is severely underrated, as a Marching SOD is disgustingly difficult to stop. We would also be able to delay the race to Mech Infantry, which means we'd retain the benefit of AW, SM, and UoS for longer while we get the house in order and get Modern Armor and Stealths.

We can ignore Fission, because all it leads to is Fusion, which isn't good for anything but the Free GE, which is basically useless considering our production.

Not a comment, but a question. Has anyone ever used guided missiles? From their stats, they don't seem like they'd be very effective, as they are one shot, and their bombardment is equivalent to a bomber. A quick WB test shows they do around 30% damage to a mech infantry in a city, but that is to ONE unit. A Bomber does 20% damage to the unit, and collaterals others. Strangely, the stealth bomber seems to do the same... I guess missiles are CHEAP, so crap cities like Athribis and Avaris could build them, but they are probably better off making planes instead.
 
Great turns S.ilver. !!

I like the idea of deleting units that are going to die anyway. :)

It's the 2nd time we lost the forge in Saxon :(

So, MGs nef artillery but get hozed by tanks and bombers. So, not much use.

I guild the AT troops cos I thought Liz would have some tanks by the time we got there, and for home defense. I guess I'm still paranoid that an AI stack will come in from the east. But, I guess they won't cos we're too powerful. There was the home guard muster points too.

The good thing about guided missiles is that you can use them from subs. and the enemy as no idea they are there. They can be useful when you are out of air cover range, and useful when you need more than the 4 bombers you can house in the cities in close range.
I guess they are also useful in a naval invasion as you can cause some damage to the highest defender and not get any WW against you. Ships can take of the defenses, but not damage the defenders.
It could be quicker to use tanks + Missiles to take out cities in the center than wait for artillery to arrive.
 
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