sc:01 Moddern war

Yep, playing about 2 hours a night, and it seems slow going. Nearly there though. We do need to start discussing on what we do about the last continent. Do we gift them all the modern techs ? Cos at the moment we will take all of france without loosing a single unit. His cisties are defended by muskets and cuirassiers !

Hammy's got infantry, which is probably from the gifts Quotey mentioned. They are going down the nuke route though. de-gaul has fision, and monte is 1 turn from rocketry. Do the AIs ever defy the UN ?
 
Occasionally. We could just build the SDI though. Nukes are a part of Modern Warfare, aren't they! They do make a lovely explosion.
 
turnset 12 turn 481. 1890AD

Part 2 of the posting.



Checking out the specialists: Merchants actually make sense right now. In production cities even adding engineers makes no huge difference to how quickly things are finished. Just more overflow !
[shrug]


Switcheroo part 1.
I've moved all the troops out of our new southern cities ready to give them away.
And moved tanks to outside of all of the northern cities ready to give and get back from france.

Turn 1: 1891AD
Memphis is building wealth. So that's getting 1033/turn.
A bunch of border pops happen, and we're on 57.28%. Domination is 58% !!
Spoiler :
01.jpg



Ok. time for switcheroo part 2.

aachen, nottingham,
canterbury
london
york
tarus
pasargade
santigo

should go to France.
Next, the other 5 go to a collony.
Spoiler :

02.jpg



Sitting bull. Nice of you to join us old chap.

We've lost about 8 resources to Mining Inc, so I'll ask for most of them back.

Now, we DoW on France.
Spoiler :

03.jpg



Doh.
I miss-clicked and sent Taurus over to Sitting bull. :smoke: Oh well. We'd probably have to give it away anyway as culture expands.

Spoiler :

04.jpg


it's really not balanced war.

So, we've got the rest back, but DeGaul still won't talk to me.
So, lets to some other damage.

I paradrop 6 paras next to Amiens. Humm. Nice animation, That's very slow. 1 unit at a time !
Spoiler :

06.jpg



but the parras can move after the drop but not attack.


Some fleets were on goto. It's polite to let us know that ....

Turn 2
Sitting bull really wanted some aluminum. I guess it's only fare, since we're taking loads of his resources.
Spoiler :

07.jpg



We take Amiens with no loss and burn it. Our culture now extends over the island anyway.
Spoiler :
08.jpg


Same with Cherbourg and Poitiers too.

Sitting bull is going to take 1237 turns to research fission, so I guess his economy is in tatters as he has no cottages.
So, we may as well get something useful from him, so we'll spread Sids to all his lands. Well, maybe not the border ones.

DeGaul's economy seems down the tubes too. 9000 turns for assembly line.
I'll put all Eps to DeGaul for 1 turn so we can see his cities.

Oh, we had a sub full of guided missiles. Nice for someone to tell me.

I'm stationing all spare guided missiles in Athens. It's the closest sub route from France to our lands. And at least we'll know where they are.
Canerbury gets Sushi. No more land to grab from it, and it could do with the food. It's close to saxon, so it can afford it. (-3gold per turn in total for that one)

Turn 3: 1893AD
We get robotics. research Satellites. We seem to have no uranium for some reason we can't build Attack subs. Even though it's mined, we have 0 on the resources screen. This must be a bug or something.

Set production in most cities to MechInfantry at the moment.
There's two french boats hovering around Saxon area. I want to kick cdg off the continent before going for piece. We should have 4 and sitting bull should have 1 too. Strange.
Drop sci to 0 to get upgrade cash. We probably need 16000 or so.

Two more cities call (one barb, one French) only one left, then we'll get piece to get ready to invade.

Turn 4: 1894ad
Switch cities to gold if they have no infrastructure to build.
I've not seen that event before. !
Spoiler :

09.jpg

Spoiler :


All french cities on the new continent have been evicted. Time to see what CdG will give us to stop beating him up.

Spoiler :

10.jpg


Not great, but every little helps :)

We got a GG too. Not sure what to do with him...

turn 5;
more mech infan arive. more cities onto gold.

turn 6:
UN finishes. We vote for ourselves as leader of course.
We've enough money to upgrade all the infantry that are at the muster points. I dial research back to 60%, and go back through all the cities that are building wealth and move them onto transports or mech-infantry.

turn 7
We are the UN SecGen.
Our domination limit is still rising. I think I need to give another city to Sitting bull. Santiago is is. That's about 80 :gold: :(
Aachen is the next one to give away.
DeGaul and Monti are sending Gallons to land that should be ours. So, we'll have to keep a tank or two back to take it and give it to sittingbull.

turn 8
We're still at 53% ...
I'm keeping some mech infantry in the cities where they are biing built now so we can air-drop them.
I did some paradrop tests, and you can jump from a fort. Not from a boat though. Not sure if you can drop from a fort in neutral territory.

turn 9:
Satellites in. Advanced flight next.
We're really in a holding pattern until we can upgrade our airforce.

Humm. I can't get our spy onto the sub to send them over to explore. :(


26 coastal cities. That would be too much to take in one turn wouldn't it. We'd need (for each city)
8 marines, two transports, guided missile boat with 4 missiles, three of 4 more boats to bring defences down.

We might be able to do it with the 11 that are in france and Aztec.
In any event, we want to split each attacking stack into two or 3, then take out all but one coastal city as quickly as we can. When we attack anyway.


turn 10: 1900AD
Nothing much happens.


So, we have a GG in Thebes and a GM in memphis.
The workers don't have much to do, so if I've missed something let me know.



We need to decide:
1)what we give away.
2)how much longer we wait for war. (I'd say we want a modern airforce + carriers for it)
3)do we want to use missile boats at all ?
4)or do we just roll over the continent ?
 
roster

S.ilver ** UP NOW **
Madtown <-- On Deck --
Quotey
Simon_c <-- Just Played --

General comments on turns.

Turns are taking a while now, especially when we go to war. If it's going to take longer than 3 days, let us know. As long as you are making progress that's file. There's only 4 of us now, so playing more than once a week (or maybe even less now) would be tough, so there's no hurry. As long as there's progress, I'm cool with it.
 
Got the save, but leaving for a lecture so I won't be able to immediately look at it. Suggestions are of course welcome before I go muddling around.

I'll have to take a look, but I was under the impression we would have to surrender most of Persia to our vassal to stay under the limit. Or Aachen/Augsberg can go, but I think there were 2 settled GGs in one of them (not that it really matters at this point).
 
1900AD (490):

My how time flies... Only seems like yesterday when we were wiping Alex off the map. No matter. Going inspect every aspect of our civ before hitting end turn.

Holy hell, we can hire 8 engineers in Giza? That's nuts... 96 base production with massive overflow. Going to try and figure out a way to kill the overflow before putting it on wealth. Not bloody likely, but we'll see.

Pi-Ram building a mech, switch it to a Supermarket, because the odd number of food needs to be fixed so we can work that plains workshop. lol, it will be done in 1 turn.

We have uranium all over the place, but apparently we need fission to activate it. Oh well. SB researching it in 52 turns lol. We have greater priorities.

Avaris building Sid's execs is hilarious. Not much use for it until we get mobile arties or something.

Hieraconpolis lacks a security bureau and an intelligence agency! And is building a mech. Ok, insert those two building in first.

Thebes building beakers with mass hired specs. Ok. Notice the sleeping GG. Red Cross is in Elephantine, so settle him there for 11XP units. I could've built a military academy, but at this point, why bother? We have too many units already anyways.

Pithom doesn't really need to be building a mech, but is almost done, so I'll let it finish.

Asyut Customs House is almost done, so hire some extra engineers to finish it next turn.

Edfu is building an observatory with bleh beakers. Makes 96 science from hammers, which absolutely kills the observatory, so just stick it on research.

Alexandria switches to research. Helios does too. I notice Navajo is on perma transports, so I'll just leave that.

Athens has 3 spies queued up, so put it on perma spies, but stick an IA in first.

Delete a rifleman in Sparta and stick it on research.

Things are looking good over on the new continent. Simon was gearing us up for the war by spamming jails and crap, so that's good.

For some reason my victory conditions screen says we only need 56% of total land area to trigger domination. That's weird, because Simon's said 58% (unless I'm bugged). Will keep an eye on that though.

Notice that Simon does not have "Automated Workers Leave Old Improvements" checked off, because some of our workers are trying to build a fort on a farm. Ok, gonna go disable all the automation...

Use the military advisor to track down a few loose riflemen and crossbows to delete. Saves us a bit of cash.

Everything looks ok, so I hit enter.

1901AD (491):

Bleh.

Spoiler :
set12clunkercoal.jpg


Set Pithom to wealth anyways, as it finished its mech.

We pop a great spy in Pithom too. So I build the long overdue Scotland Yard there, and we get an extra 50 EPs.

Navajo perma transport is actually pretty useless, as it'll take too long for the transport to get somewhere. Order wealth for upgrades.

Recon over Hammurabi's territory shows infantry and tanks.

Spoiler :
set12hammurabi.jpg


At Abydos, I begin loading transports full of marines to wait with the fleet (the stack is so big that I can't see that marines that I loaded without scrolling up). Marines don't upgrade, so no loss loading them now. Ok, so 40 marines are loaded and waiting with the fleet. Going to train lots more transports though...

Mostly dialing up infrastructure that won't produce more culture. If that isn't possible, dial wealth instead.

1902AD (492):

Advanced Flight comes in getting us Jets and Copters. Joy. Time to blow some money upgrading.

Dial up Laser because it's slightly cheaper than both Stealth and Composites, and will finish in 4 turns.

Go find a jet and hit Alt. 2940 gold to upgrade them all. Good to go on jets. Ok, not so fast. Seems we have some jets not in cities, so call their fleets back to port for the upgrade.

Some of the completed mech builds change to gunships, because we have 60 mechs, and 30ish infantry to be upgraded to mechs. Don't need too many more.

Was going to upgrade our single cavalry and single war elephant, but fresh troops are cheaper to build, and come with more XP, so they get deleted.

Tanks find a city Monty settled in the north on the new continent. Trivial. It's defended by Grenadiers.

1903AD (493):

Judaism spreads in Monty's new city, and I see that he upgraded one gren to a SAM (equally worthless).

Extra Sid's Exec at Avaris, but there is nowhere I can spread it without having a massive culture boom.

1904AD (494):

UN Vote pops up and we have some interesting resolution options.

Spoiler :
set12UNchoices.jpg


Trade routes looks good, but of course the reason we shot for the UN is to ban nukes, so that's exactly what I do.

Our idiot friend De Gaulle also founded another city north of Aachen.

Fleet finally gets back to port, and I finish upgrading our remaining fighters to Jets.

Health problems are abounding as Sid's Sushi makes the population boom on the new continent. Struggling to keep up with health buildings.

1905AD (495):

The peace deal with De Gaulle ends, and SB wants to trade world maps. Uh... Ok, sure.

Haha, everyone votes to ban nukes!

Spoiler :
set12bannednukes.jpg


Looks like a nuke-free game for us.

Notice that Busiris' desert hill was never mined, so send mass workers who are bored to go to that.

This is basically the last round of mech builds in our city. Next turn, Laser is in, and I'll be spamming Mobile Arties.

1906AD (496):

Laser is in. Composites and Stealth are both 5 turns, but go for Composites, as Stealth obsoletes our destroyers.

Upgrade all artilleries for 3400 gold.

Cut the spies in Athens in favour of more mobile arties.

Fiddle with the ratio of wealth to research cities to get composites in 4 turns.

1907AD (497):

Moving and shifting stuff. Nothing of note really.

1908AD (498):

More loading up of transports. Abydos builds a transport per turn, and I still don't think we have enough.

Note that 300 hammer Mobile arties are a challenge for cities to build in 1 turn, except for Giza. Hire more engineers in cities building Mobile Arties to maximize overflow.

1909AD (499):

Another round of Mobile Arties finished this turn. Shuttled them to Abydos to be loaded on the never ending boats.

1910AD (500):

Composites come in. I tentatively set it on Stealth. It looks like we'll finish the tech tree before our buddy Sitting Bull finishes Fission for us lol.

Ok, now that that's done, click on a tank, hold Alt, and wince. 20880 gold to upgrade all our tanks. This is on top of the 9860 gold for the infantry, 5385 for the machine guns and 4560 for the AT units (all to Mech Infantry, we don't care about Mobile SAMs).

That's 41135 gold to upgrade all our land army to modern era forces. I didn't look at the boats because Missile Cruisers are not any stronger than battleships, except they can carry missiles. Other naval units are probably not worth considering upgrading either.

Obviously stealth bomber costs are not yet known, but they are irrelevant as we won't have anywhere to base them.

We have 5391 gold in the bank right now. The majority of our medium production cities are building wealth (if they couldn't get a mobile arty out in 2 turns, they are building wealth). No one is building research anymore, because Stealth will finish in 5 on its own at 60% on the slider. Stealth is also the last tech that we actually care about for Modern War. The others are just gravvy for helping our empire out. SB should be finished Fission by the time we are done Stealth, Fiber Optics, Superconductors, and Genetics. And if he's not, we can just research future tech for a while, who cares?

Eastern Task Force

Spoiler :
set12eastfleet.jpg


Western Task Force

Spoiler :
set12westfleet.jpg


We need more boats for the west. Saxon and York should be able to build transports to move the western troops.

IMO, we don't need to actually build any Modern Armour. We have 72 tanks, and it would be faster to run wealth in all big cities, and research at 0% for 5 turns to upgrade all of our tanks.

Further war plans to come.

ROSTER
S.ilver <-- Just Played --
Madtown ** UP NOW **
Quotey <-- On Deck --
Simon_c
 

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Ok, so minor problem with some of our possible war plans. The transports that have been rolling off the assembly line at Abydos are sub par to say the least. I just realized they only have 8XP, and that's only good for Nav 1, which is 8 move transports. Some invasion routes are possibly 9 tiles long on the first turn, and if we want to blitz all of Hammurabi's coastal cities on turn 1, we may need to sort the transports into forces based on their movement (8 or 9 movement).

Also, that brings me to somewhat bad news. Battleships without Navigation are basically worthless for us. They will have 8 move, so they won't be able to keep up with the stack and bombard at the same time, so they are useless, as we need the ships to do all of the cultural bombardment for us. Any Nav 1 battleships we have can escort the 8 move transport stacks, but we will need exclusively destroyers (which have a base of 10 move) to escort the 9 move transport stacks.

We can possibly still find use for the 8 move battleships though. Although they can't keep up with the transport stack, they should be able to help bombard the first few cities, while covering the carriers, which don't need to move with the transports.
 
good turns sliver.

My rational for some of the things you picked up on. Feel free to argue with me.

Thebes building beakers with mass hired specs. Ok. Notice the sleeping GG. Red Cross is in Elephantine, so settle him there for 11XP units. I could've built a military academy, but at this point, why bother? We have too many units already anyways.
As our Oxford city, I figured we should max it out for science and get it to build beakers.

Good point on the GG to elephantine !.

I did mention the sleeping GPs.

Edfu is building an observatory with bleh beakers. Makes 96 science from hammers, which absolutely kills the observatory, so just stick it on research.
I guess at this point an extra few beakers from observatories isn't really worth it, but if you're going to stick it on research anyway, surly it is ?


For some reason my victory conditions screen says we only need 56% of total land area to trigger domination. That's weird, because Simon's said 58% (unless I'm bugged). Will keep an eye on that though.
I think introducing a new AI reduces the %age needed.


Notice that Simon does not have "Automated Workers Leave Old Improvements" checked off, because some of our workers are trying to build a fort on a farm. Ok, gonna go disable all the automation...
Doh !
I didn't think I had any automated worker other than trade routes, which shouldn't touch buildings.


Also,
Was going to upgrade our single cavalry and single war elephant, but fresh troops are cheaper to build, and come with more XP, so they get deleted.
I hope you kept or upgraded our GG healer !

So, any thoughts on how we get a decent fight from the AI ? Or have we gone past that now ?
 
Wow, a lot of action since I last visited. Good job with the sets guys.

So, any thoughts on how we get a decent fight from the AI ? Or have we gone past that now ?

I think were well past that point. Perhaps this game should be intended to show how quickly one can complete an intercontinental invasion when forces are properly distributed?

If we want to delve into the strategies of a even-matched modern war, we will probably have to start a new SG and use Advanced Start feature.

Anyways, I got the save. I should be able to get my set done this weekend. I think we should cease most military builds from this point on. I may decide to rebuild the transports and possibly the battleships if I feel it is worthwhile and possible in the time frame.
 
If we want to delve into the strategies of a even-matched modern war, we will probably have to start a new SG and use Advanced Start feature.
I was thinking that too.
But I think for my next SG I want to try Obselete's mega-city strat.
But, not for a wile after this one has finished.
 
Simon_c said:
good turns sliver.

As our Oxford city, I figured we should max it out for science and get it to build beakers.

I guess at this point an extra few beakers from observatories isn't really worth it, but if you're going to stick it on research anyway, surly it is ?

It would be... except that research, gold, or culture produced by hammers is not multiplied by their respective commerce buildings. The hammers used are treated as hammers, so forge/factory etc. apply to it just like in a build.

So for Thebes, it didn't really matter which it was building, since neither are amplified by the commerce buildings. No matter, as I think I set it to Mobile Arties for now.

Simon_c said:
I hope you kept or upgraded our GG healer !

Geronimo is still in York with the Western task force. I didn't bother upgrading him, although it is free to do so, so we might as well (I think they fixed the bug where copters move slower on railroads than everything else).

We could gift all our techs to the AI, but that frankly still wouldn't make it a decent fight, with our already killer power rating and obscene production. I think we are in mop up mode to find perhaps the most efficient strategy for wiping the AI out.
 
I'm away from Fri-Mon, so if I come up during that timeframe, please swap me (or skip if simon turns it over real quick).
 
I think we are in mop up mode to find perhaps the most efficient strategy for wiping the AI out.
OK, I can buy that.
How many turns does it take to wipe out a continent from the start of war then ?

is it worth brining workers along to build rails ?
 
My plans to play last night fell through, and all I've done thus far is examine the save and change a couple builds. I'm going to be out-of-town for the next 36 hrs, so if you guys are anxious, go ahead and swap me. Otherwise I should have my set played and up by Monday night (US time).
 
OK, I played 5 turns so far. Not much to report as it's been boring troop distribution. We should be in position to declare on Hammy at the end of my set, in fact it might not even take the other 5 turns to get ready.

If anyone has any special plans for the pre-invasion ship placement then make your case known now. Keep in mind that we are razing everything from here on out, so no need to allot extra troops for garrisons. Also for island cities, transport/carrier groups can be stationed at a good midway point between cities, allowing the transports to strike out and raze cities then retreat back to the group. The only issue is whether we will have enough ships to take down cutural defenses enough.

I should be able to finish this tomorrow night and get an official report up.
 
Don't think there's a whole lot to discuss. Storming Hammurabi first is the obvious plan. I looked at the map a bit to try and plot shortest routes, but frankly it's probably not worth the effort, saving a turn or so. We need a small force to remove his holdings near us, and he won't die until we declare war on De Gaulle and clear out Monty from that last city of his.
 
I open the save and take a look around. Looks like we have plenty of units to wage the war, but we just need to upgrade some more tanks to modern armors before we can ship them out.

One other noteworthy item is our NP/NE city Pithom, whch is looking pretty fantastic right now. Take a look:

PithomGPfarm.jpg


Not bad at all considering how late we got it running.

Since we don’t have espionage visibility on Hammy yet, I send out a carrier group to recon the mainland cities. I want to locate his navy and judge its strength. If there is one component we’re lacking it’s an overwhelming navy. When the fighters are in range I send them on scouting missions. Turns out Hammy doesn’t have any navy to speak of, just a couple of transports and 2 destroyers -unless he’s hiding them somewhere else.

UNvotecurency.jpg


We get a UN vote in 1912 and I go with single currency resolution. Foreign trade would be nice too, but I figure it doesn’t work when you’re at war with a civ. The vote succeeds the next turn.

I move workers on the home continent to Busiris to sleep out the end of their days. Workers in New Egypt will gradually be accumulated in London. We should probably delete at least half of them soon.

futureera.jpg


In 1619 we enter the future era with the discovery of stealth; not that it matters much as our forces will be in position in 3 turns. I set research towards genetics :dunno: .

We also popped a GE from Memphis. There is a sleeping merchant also in that city so I suggest we burn them on a golden age. I’ll leave both in Memphis for next turnset though.

In 1918 AD our forces arrive at the staging positions just outside of Hammy’s borders. All Five groups will wake up at the start of next turn. Here is a visual outline of my attack proposal:

babylonattackplan.jpg


I'm not going to bother writing out all the arrayed units, suffice to say that there is plenty there to take out Hammy in 4 turns or less. The Yellow lines denote 1st turn strikes, while the red ones show the 2nd/3rd turn movements.

I would reccomend using marines to take the island and coastal cities, backed up by mobile artillery and the navy, with its guided missles and jets. Most modern armors should then be able to move unhindered into the mainland, make sure you make the most of their 3 moves to strike swiftly.

A small force has also been stationed outside of the 2 icy cities to the south of our mainland. The garrisons there should present no difficulties.

babylonattackplan2.jpg


Lastly, Hammy has an attack sub up north in Monty's territory. Try to keep an eye on it and take it out if it makes any moves. We have 2 destroyers and a sub with guided missles in the area. I've also set up a bit of a recon net of ships between us and CdG, just in case he gets any ideas and launches a stack of ships towards Athens.

Hammysattacksub2.jpg


Everything is set for Quotey to declare at the start of next turn. My war plan is just a suggestion, so do what you will with the armies. Remember though that the new goal is to try to mop up the ocontinent as quickly as possible. More troops are stationed at the two major rally points in Egypt and New Egypt if they are needed (many still need upgrading).

Good luck. I don't expect I'll be playing another round in this game. In fact, I'd be a bit dissapointed if I have to (yes, that's a challenge ;) ).

ROOSTER
S.ilver
Madtown <-- Just Played --
Quotey ** UP NOW **
Simon_c <-- On Deck --
 

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