Scientific Method vs Great Library

[Tristan_C]

Quite a tangent from SciMeth, but a good discussion nevertheless Personally I take Mining rather than CJ+CC. CJ comes later, and CC provides half the hammers, generally, of Mining. If you're committed to staying away from state property, every hammer counts. The real strength of CJ is trans-oceanic civs, where it will fight the maintenance issues.

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Anyways I was going to either post my own anti-scientific method rant or revive an old anti-scientific method rant thread. They get posted from time to time. When you're playing a game where your whole infrastructure basically goes obsolete at SciMeth, it's always good to join in on a nice round of rants on the forums before researching the tech. This tech is really controversial because it's just a bundle obsolescence and fail. Some games will ram up against it harder than others; basically, if you're a builder with a first-rate position, you will balk at SciMeth. If you're a warmonger whose only wonders are those that just happened to sit in the path of your army, you can prioritize the science cluster techs straight up.

People talk about bulbing scimeth but that seems Save bulbing for something that pays off fast. SciMeth requires you to research 3 techs in order for it to pay off.

We can try to minimize the transition time. Shoot for cannons or riflemen first (or appropriate builders' alternatives), and while you're busy playing with them, store up a pile of gold and couple of GS. Tech Scimeth slowly, amassing gold and extending your old-world buildings to their longest life, and then once the day rolls around, deficit-research / bulb the three goodies afterwards to shorten the transition.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

@Kochman:

I believe the Deity players are the ones that do all that math and the whole corporations discussion took place a long time ago. Pretty sure CJ wasn't near the top of the desired corporations list. IIRC, Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc. were the most desired corps / combination.

Remember, you need to build market/grocer/bank in each city in order for the to be all that amazing. It's situational in nature. However, most maps (even pangea) will have tons of seafood sources. This is, of course, even more exaggerated on water-heavy maps. Sid's Sushi always works with out the need for heavy multiplier buildings. Sid's offers waaaaayyyy too much versatility and when combined with mining inc. almost guarantees a Space Race or Domination victory.

 

[kochman]

@Kochman:

I believe the Deity players are the ones that do all that math and the whole corporations discussion took place a long time ago. Pretty sure CJ wasn't near the top of the desired corporations list. IIRC, Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc. were the most desired corps / combination.

Remember, you need to build market/grocer/bank in each city in order for the to be all that amazing. It's situational in nature. However, most maps (even pangea) will have tons of seafood sources. This is, of course, even more exaggerated on water-heavy maps. Sid's Sushi always works with out the need for heavy multiplier buildings. Sid's offers waaaaayyyy too much versatility and when combined with mining inc. almost guarantees a Space Race or Domination victory.

BTW, I am a deity player (just haven't won it yet).
I put out specific/situational ways that make the civ jewelers is so great, and said if those specifics weren't met, it loses power.
I also clearly stated that I also take SS, and CC, all 3 together are superior to MC and SS (3 being better than 2 isn't really a hard concept to wrap one's brain around)... but the best of those is CJ because money = production (except for projects, such as space ship)... rush buy.
When you are bringing in 6000/turn plus (and still getting great research)... you can buy buy buy. The problem with SS, when you get to a certain population point, that extra food takes forever to keep improving... right? Not to mention, it is at best deficit neutral.

 

[georgjorge]

I'd like to try the Mining Corporation, but I almost never manage to get a Great Engineer that late. By that stage of the game, the threshold for getting Great people is already high, and the only way I can get an Engineer (short of having built all the appropriate wonders) is by building Ironworks and running four of them there, which is usually way slower than what my other GP cities are producing (or I could wait for Factories and Industrial Park, which is also slow). It also cripples my best production city for a long time because it's hard to have the engineers AND work the mines/windmills as well even with Sushi, so I lose out on a lot of hammers...I'm curious how other people mange to get the engineers.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Engineer specialists have as much production as a grassland windmill (decent). A good production city for me has ample food as well as , in that scenario the engineers bring in extra production over and above the production from my tiles.

 

[klaidonis]

@kochman: I am definitely not a Deity player (not even close), but I think the greatest weakness of CJ could be exactly what you have described as the greatest strength: this corp produces only money and culture. Unfortunately, SS parts can't be bought; and the culture victories are usually won way before the Corporations.

So CJ could be a good choice for a military victory because units can be bought. However, I would prefer Sushi and Mining for the space race.

 

[kochman]

@kochman: I am definitely not a Deity player (not even close), but I think the greatest weakness of CJ could be exactly what you have described as the greatest strength: this corp produces only money and culture. Unfortunately, SS parts can't be bought; and the culture victories are usually won way before the Corporations.

So CJ could be a good choice for a military victory because units can be bought. However, I would prefer Sushi and Mining for the space race.

For the space race, you are certainly correct. I rarely seek space race victories. Culture victory, for me, is not easy... I need the bump! I tend to be more of a war monger.