Scots Independence?

[Pangur Bán]

Will Scotland ever become independent from England/UK? Tell me what you think. Should the Scots become independent again?

 

[Pillager]

Firstly, to split hairs, it shouldn't be England/UK. Scotland cannot become independent from England, as the two countries (with NI and Wales) are partners in the United Kingdom.

Secondly, I am a staunch Unionist. This country has achieved an awful lot as Britain, and it would be a real shame to jeopardise it.

Thirdly, the Scottish politicians have made a real mess of devolution. The Scottish Parliament building is one example, spending time on legislation banning the smacking of children is another.

Fourthly, the botched way in which Scottish devolution was implemented has hardly helped to strengthen the Union. We have Scottish MPs blocking legislation that would affect only England, whereas the reverse does not happen.

Fifthly, Blair's claim that devolution would strengthen the Union and weaken calls for Scottish independence has been shown to be false. At least the mess that has been made of devolution (in Wales, as well) has caused people to think more.

I voted that they shouldn't and won't, although I'm not 100% confident.

 

[Wild Weasel]

I think the UK should continue as is, as I think all the constituent countries are stronger for it. However, many Scots - and more than a few English - will disagree. Plus, disolving the Union will have a significant impact on the fashion industry as the Union Flag will have to go.

My vote would therefore be - were the option presented -
'I hope not but it's really up to the Scots to decide by popular representation'.

I think the 'UK integrated into the EU so it won't matter' option is fallacy. I can see many Scots objecting to being included into the EU as a kind of 'second tier' member. I'm sure if Britain ever becomes a fully-fledged member of any future federated Europe that the Scots - and the Welsh for that matter - will want to do it on equal footing to the English.

 

[Richard III]

Keep the Union, dammit!

 

[Rodgers]

I thought the independence movement gained most popularity on the basis that Scotland had no power of it's own at Westminster - even though the Scottish Parliament is a bit of a mess I reckon most people will be happy with that.

Plus the corruption that is being exposed among SMPs already may make people think twice about giving them even more power than they already have.

Plus, if we go into the Euro I doubt it would make any noticable difference anyway - hasn't the North Sea oil been mostly used up by now?

 

[insurgent]

I say keep the union, no need for building more states thatn we already have in Europe. But I think it will happen anyway...

... of course I'm not British...

 

[jpowers]

Let them split, but make them use the Euro

 

[Ozz]

Oh, it will eventually happen.

Will just create even more redtape and bureaucracy in the
world, to be paid for mainly by the Scots, but then we'd
all have to have an embassy with them, and them with
us.

It'll cost the Scots big bucks to run it. The only benefits
I can see is telling the Queen to hit the road and making
a bunch of flag wavin' nit-wits happy.

 

[MrPresident]

I want independence for England and so by implication support Scottish independence.

People should be allowed to run their own countries, no matter the 'bureaucratic' cost.

... of course I'm not British...

No one is perfect.

 

[Bifrost]

Anyway, the time of GBR collapse will come.
If the scotts fight for their independence, I'll be the first foreigner who joins them. You see, the structure of GBR is rather fragile, if it was not a unitary (check the spelling) country, but federative, like Germany, RF, Jugoslavia etc, it would fall to pieces very fast. The Englishmen use their laws an army to keep GBR as it is today.
Great Britain is a survival of British Empire - and the Scotts, Welsh,and certainly Irish must have independence if they want it

 

[Pillager]

The Englishmen use their laws an army to keep GBR as it is today

I'll assume that that isn't a serious suggestion.

the Scotts, Welsh,and certainly Irish must have independence if they want it

The number of Scots that want independence is debatable.
The Welsh definitely do not.
The Irish got it eighty years ago.
If you mean Ulster, they don't want it hence the problem with those who are fighting for it.

 

[Bifrost]

OK! Its up to them to have willingness being independent.
But if they really don't , what is this thread for.
Anyway give the independence to the shetland isles, and move here all the Gaels.

 

[veal]

Yeah pillager is right they have botched it basically. I don't think the Scottish public can really see any benefit in devolution at the moment. I don't think there is any really, Scotland is too small to put a rugby team together let alone go it alone economically. I think Britain is stronger together.


I love your soviet spin on all problems in the world biofrost. "fight for independence" "English using their army to keep the GBR" Sounds like a russian history book except replace english references with russian. Luckily not all places in the world are like the USSR was, I don't think they'll need to post troops on Adrian's wall just yet!!

 

[Pillager]

Anyway give the independence to the shetland isles,

I think we could handle that...

Originally posted by veal
Yeah pillager is right

Correct.

 

[Ozz]

Originally posted by MrPresident
People should be allowed to run their own countries, no matter the 'bureaucratic' cost.

Why? So they can make war? So they can pollute and
watch it blow or flow over the border. Not our problem
now. So they can have politicans of their own colour and
language fleecing them instead of somebody off colour
fleecing them.

Be careful of what you wish for, you may just get it.

 

[MrPresident]

Why? So they can make war? So they can pollute and watch it blow or flow over the border. Not our problem
now. So they can have politicans of their own colour and
language fleecing them instead of somebody off colour
fleecing them.

In a word, yes. So they can do what they want. I believe that the power of every government comes from its citizens and its citizens alone. In the people of Scotland, England or Wales want an independence country then they should get one. You can't stop people governing themselves because you think they are not capable of doing. That thinking went out with the decline of the British Empire.

Be careful of what you wish for, you may just get it.

I wouldn't wish for it if I didn't want it.

 

[Ozz]

Originally posted by MrPresident

In a word, yes. So they can do what they want. I believe that the power of every government comes from its citizens and its citizens alone. In the people of Scotland, England or Wales want an independence country then they should get one. You can't stop people governing themselves because you think they are not capable of doing. That thinking went out with the decline of the British Empire.

I wouldn't wish for it if I didn't want it.

Too bad about the British Empire, greatest agent for
the advancement of mankind there ever was. Are you
not a citizen of the UK and empowering that government?

You still have not answered WHY. I have yet to see
any separtist from any country that is not violently
oppressed answer the "WHY" logically.

You wouldn't want it if you thought it though logically.

 

[Bifrost]

I love your soviet spin on all problems in the world biofrost. "fight for independence" "English using their army to keep the GBR" Sounds like a russian history book except replace english references with russian. Luckily not all places in the world are like the USSR was, I don't think they'll need to post troops on Adrian's wall just yet!!

I couldnt even imagine the variety of "correct" nicks I have : someone had already called me "bit-frost" or even better: "beefroast" now I found out the last version "biofrost" . Mmm... what does this new nick mean? Maybe you'd explain me?

The frase about "fight for independence" was written at the moment I was reading the Burns' poetry... it inspires to write smthg like that.

The USSR collapsed without war campaigns.So the situation is not "like it was in USSR".

Army - its really false? And Ulster must be demilitarized zone.

And theres smthg else to mention: In my first post I wrote ".... the Scotts, Welsh,and certainly Irish must have independence if they want it. IF THEY WANT IT.

Thanks for "soviet spin on all problems in the world", COMRRRAD

 

[MrPresident]

Army - its really false? And Ulster must be demilitarized zone.

The army is and was in Ulster for the protection of the citizens of Ulster, not to keep it in the union.

Too bad about the British Empire, greatest agent for
the advancement of mankind there ever was.

I would argue that the Roman Empire was but there is no doubting the amount of good the British Empire did. However I don't think that justifies what we British did. That is why I am glad it is gone.

Are you not a citizen of the UK and empowering that government?

I don't want to empower a UK government. I want to empower an English government. I am a citizen of England first, a citizen of the UK second and a citizen of the EU third.

I have yet to see any separtist from any country that is not violently oppressed answer the "WHY" logically.

See above. Say for example Canada was run (non-violently) by a North American government, would you support Canadian independence?

 

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Bifrost
Thanks for "soviet spin on all problems in the world", COMRRRAD

Hey, Bifrost chill out

Your original post did seem dated, (circa 1950) and N. Ireland has nothing to do with independance it's about land. As for the Scots and Welsh and French Canadians (In Canada) they can separate any time they desire by a majority plebicite. The fact
that is has not happened and is usually desired only by a
minority is because people are treated equally. The minority
is usually after a political job in the "new" government, not
being able to cut it in the bigger pond or they're just flag waving
nit-wits who hav'nt really thought it through logically.