SE in MP: Industrious or Philosophical (or Louis vs. Pericles)?

[Martinus]

So, first of all, I think most people would agree that Creative works wonders now in SE, allowing for cheaper libraries and fast early resource grab.

The question I have however is what other trait of the two classic SE ones (Industrious or Philosophical) is better for SE, especially in MP. Industrious is better at being able to grab Pyramids (GL is less of a concern, since playing it right you are almost guaranteed to get it, unless someone else is also playing an Industrious SE civ), and you can likely kiss Pyramids goodbye if you aren't Industrious (since both AI and human players go for it, and it is enough for someone else to be Industrious or start with Stone nearby to lose the race for Pyramids easily). Philosophical seems to offer a more steady bonus, but again it kinda slows down near the end, when GP cost becomes more or less prohibitive.

So the questions really are:

1) How vital are Pyramids for SE?

2) Is it better to have Pyramids or be Philosophical?

 

[futurehermit]

Pyramids are handy, but not vital. They're not worth getting killed over

I would say go philosophical so you always have a bonus. If you happen to have stone and have a strong enough power graph then you get the ADDED bonus of pyramids.

Also, someone mentioned that if you get the good fortune of being able to "stomp a noob" (i.e., attack a newer player early) then you effectively have some "free cities" beyond what your opponents have that you can put toward building pricy wonders like the pyramids.

 

[aelf]

Pericles is king

Seriously.

 

[AlessioCerci]

Damn it. Aelf beat me to it. Pericles is indeed king

 

[FrancisMarion]

I'd take into consideration the UU and UB as well. If you expect an early war, then Perciles is your man. The power of the chariot immune axeman shouldn't be understimated. Also, the Oden is great for conquest. +2 Happiness and +3 culture is exactly what you need in a newly conquered city.

On the other hand, the salon is good for SE because the free Artist is an extra +4 beakers (assuming you get pyramids which you should) per city with observatory, and with the age of gunpowder extended the musketeer is fairly powerful.

I'd go with Pericles just because hammers spent on wonders are hammers not spent on soldiers. Why build the Pyramids when you can steal them?

 

[futurehermit]

The artist is +3 beakers * modifiers as it has no inherent beakers and rep gives 3 afaik.

Pyramids could be built on another continent, which is something to keep in mind. Also, the GE from pyramids is great = rush the GL in 1 turn.

Louis rox. Some of my best games have been with him going pyramids-parthenon-GL and cav/musketeers in Renaissance.

 

[Phrederick]

Artists give +1 beaker inherently. I'm almost positive it's 1b/4culture.

The main reason I'd say Pericles over Louis for multiplayer is that it can be dangerous going for wonders if a neighbor is building a military. However, I've never played mp so I don't know how true that is.

 

[FrancisMarion]

Yep Artists and Spys give +1 beakers (+4 with representation)