SE3 - Hatty

Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
523
"Snack Economy" is a series of games in which we try to learn how to best make use of food, with emphasis on the specialists which food allows us to employ.

The rule is that we are not allowed to own cottages, EVER. :) All of our commerce must be from resources, rivers, trade routes and other such things, but never cottages. If we ever capture a city with cottages, we must pillage/destroy the cottages. (pillaging before they come into our possession is the most profitable way of getting rid of them, though ;))

Our leader for this round is


Hatty - the fancy chef



The traits of our leader are
Creative - 2culture per city, makes border expansion far easier and grants us more freedom to settle better sites. We also get cheaper libraries, which is the main point why I wanted a creative leader for this game
Spiritual - which means that we can very easily and anarchy-free switch religions and civics, helping us earning more diplomatic points with our neighbours, and also with switching between economic civics and war-time civics

Our Unique Unit is one of the best early offensive units


Our Unique Building allows the use of 2 priest specialists, which opens up religious gameplay for anyone interested.


Our starting location



The map is
Spoiler :

Continents and Islands, which is similar to Big and Small, but allows for islands of greater sizes. This particular map has normal continents and islands the size of snaky continents.
I've added one extra AI.


This map is from a game I was playing in single player and I liked, and this has the disadvantage that there will be no huts. The huts option is the main option that can't really be changed with the custom options (if you select to have huts on, they still won't pop on the map :()
I've added files for noble, monarch (AI gets archery bonus tech), emperor (AI gets archery and hunting bonus techs) and deity (AI gets archery, hunting and agriculture bonus techs)

If you want to play monarch, you should add archery to the barbarians, using the WB.
If you want to play emperor or immortal, you should add archery and hunting to the barbarians, using the WB.
If you want to play deity, you should add archery, hunting and agriculture to the barbarians, using the WB.

View attachment SE3_Hatty.zip
 

vranasm

Deity
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Looks interresting, too bad you didnt provide screenshot with resources on, so i am not sure what we have, but I think wheat and silver in BFC, to the west it looks like 3 flood plains.
I usually SIP, but after I see it ingame I maybe will adjust my plan and settle 1W.

Creative should help with land grab and early library (so writing is up on the list). Spiritual I like as very good trait even in late endgame.
Looks like fun game
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
523
Sorry, I didn't realize there weren't resource bubbles. If there's one thing I completely hate about Civ4, it is that it "forgets" certain settings every now and then. I always use resource bubbles, but the game just chooses to eliminate them every few games, which is infuriating.

And even more infuriating is when the game completely eliminates my custom options, my preferred map script and turns my difficulty to chieftain, (not mid-game, of course, just every now and then when going to custom game option) or when it changes my profile to the default profile.

~~~

Anyway, those are wheat and marble. I'll post a version with the resources in a few minutes.
 

drlake

Emperor
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Plattsburgh, NY
Looks interesting, I haven't played Hatty yet. I need to build enough Chariots to pillage all the damn cottages, though!
 
Joined
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Emperor, epic, till 775 BCE
Spoiler :

I decided to take a risk and settle on a blue circle. That offered a capital with good enough food, but only one hill, so terrible terrible production. Might be a rather good city from mid-game on though, after I can get some good workshops.


I teched AH, mining, BW, and seeing bronze very close by, I decided on another sub-par city to get access to the strategic resource.


I also teched pottery and was researching writing when I settled the above city. Next I teched towards aesthetics and settled a good production city which can also work a few specialists. But seeing that I don't have any production powerhouses, I think the city will be mostly for hammers rather than GPP.


I got a GS which I decided to keep idle for a while. The best academy spot hadn't been settled yet, and I did not feel a stringent need for tech. I then stopped employing scientists in the cap because I still had to settle the next two cities very fast:

Kind of cool that I get access to ellies with Elephantine. :)

And the intended supercity:


If only the warrior had been south of the settler in the start of the game... :(
Now I have to see if I manage to get the GL here, although I'm rather confident that, with marble, it is mine.

Of course, I did trade aesthetics to Willem for alphabet, but I doubt I have to fear much competition for the library, at least so early. I'm a bit uncertain about the Parthenon though.




And it seems the supercity has access to iron. :D


Next steps
Spoiler :

I still plan on one more city, so I'll need another settler at some point, although this has a low priority.
I need a lot more workers, but I also want granaries in most cities, a library in at least the supercity, and a barracks in the production city, although it could also use a library. If there's one thing I haven't yet figured out, it's how to balance growth, building granaries, libraries, workers and fully leveraging slavery. :(

My neighbours are rather friendly and honest, so I have nothing to fear for a long time. Religious divide has started to appear between the far civs, though, so the time to pick sides will come soon enough.

I could probably wage early war, thanks to the iron, but I am not too keen on grabbing a lot of jungle so early in the game from a leader I can get along with anyway, and I'd like to try an early liberalism. :D It will be a bit more difficult without the myds though.
 

drlake

Emperor
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Plattsburgh, NY
I'm thinking settle on the Marble. That seems to be the consensus "good move" in a recent thread with a similar opening option. 3 hammer city tile, IIRC, and another commerce too?

As for opening strategy, War Chariots! Hopefully there will be a target or two close enough to rush if there are Horses close to the capital.
 

shyuhe

Deity
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Gone fishing for the summer
I'm thinking settle on the Marble. That seems to be the consensus "good move" in a recent thread with a similar opening option. 3 hammer city tile, IIRC, and another commerce too?

Settling on the marble here isn't so hot since it lacks fresh water.
 

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
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Cantaloupe Island
I'm thinking settle on the Marble. That seems to be the consensus "good move" in a recent thread with a similar opening option. 3 hammer city tile, IIRC, and another commerce too?

No additionnal commerce, nope.

Grassland plains + Food resource = +1 food
Plains + Production resource = +1 hammer
Plains + Hill = +1 hammer
River + Commerce resource = +1commerce (+2 if Financial leader)

Here you meet 2 conditions --> +2 hammers.

I don't think any resource counts as both a production and commerce resource.


I'll try this game series... It seems fun and educative.
 

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
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Up to 2000 B.C. (Writing)

Spoiler :
Immortal... The settings on which I lose, these days :lol:
The map is nice. I couldn't spot horses, too bad. there are several copper sources, though.
Not sure what to do about the jungle. For now it seems I can just avoid settling too deep into it.

First moves :
Settled on the Marble.
With Agriculture to work the wheat and 2 floodplains, research was set to Mining --> Bronze Working.

Spoiler :


Thebes went for a Worker, grew to size 3 while building a few warriors and made a settler. There was the "health event" in 3120BC (giving two angry citizens as a bonus) so growing to size 4 was not an option.
Tech-wise, I aimed for Writing next (through AH) as there is a nice inland spot to the south.

Spoiler :


Which gives two strong production cities. I need to connect the copper : I'd rather build 3-4 axes than 10 warriors. Units upkeep would kill me... Hopefully, a barb city will pop to give axemen some action and money for Hattie.

In the same light, Thebes grew to size 4 after producing the 1st settler but then stunned its growth since size 5 wouldn't yield additionnal commerce. Instead, it would force to build many more warriors. Thus it started Worker and then Settler at size 4.

2000 B.C. Writing is in. Only Asoka seems really close.
The jungle isn't so troublesome, in the end. There is a good number of nice spots to settle. 3 North of Thebes. 1 to the SW and an unknown number far to the south.
The 3rd settler is close to completion and will go to the south east. There is a Copper + Ivory + Gold site that I want. Barbs show in numbers, there, so I'll go for at least 1 axe in Memphis for military support... and then set up 2 libraries + scientists.

Spoiler :




I need to explore more but from the looks of it, I will settle 1NW of the gold tile.


Next tech, I could go for Fishing but I'm hoping I don't need it just right now.
Only the Great Wall has been built, Judaism hasn't been founded yet, I'll have 2 libraries very soon... So I'm thinking about the Oracle...
Maybe Myst --> Poly --> Masonry --> Priesthood --> Oracle is doable.
If I skip the Oracle, the path would probably be Fishing --> Sailing --> (Masonry -->) Litterature.

Military :
3 Workers (4 in 2 turns)
6 warriors (lost 2)

Not sure I can maintain this kind of no-cottage game until the 1000ADs, but for now it looks ok :)


Any comment appreciated :)
 

vranasm

Deity
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Feb 2, 2002
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Monarch Epic to 2100 BC 1T from Writing

Spoiler :

Went with spoilered advice on settling marble. Worker first, Mining, then BW I think, AH, Writing.

settled second city at copper, marble, bananas, pigs site. Have plans for 4 more cities around cap.

Next research would be probably Masonry, Aesthetics, Literature. I think that I could try for Parthenon this game! and for GL for sure (that I usually manage easily and with marble it should be easy).



After I settle those cities I think i will think about war against India, probably will have to self research IW and then go for cats.


edit:

General question that I think doesnt have to be in spoilers, since it's ub of egypt.
How you will/want to utilize those Obelisks? I generally doesnt use priests as specs much, so kind of dunno if they are worth it.
 

BornInCantaloup

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General question that I think doesnt have to be in spoilers, since it's ub of egypt.
How you will/want to utilize those Obelisks? I generally doesnt use priests as specs much, so kind of dunno if they are worth it.

I hope someone will have a more enlightening opinion but here's mine :
Priests do generate GPP. Maybe you don't want a G. Prophet as a first choice, but you can still hire a few priests to hasten the GP. Without Caste System, you're pretty much limited to 2 specialists per city (Markets are expensive and come later / same for tribunals).
With high food resources and a low happy cap, you may want to hire those additional specialists. Even as the happy cap increases, in fact. That holds especially if you don't want to whip your city.

Settling / Bulbing / Shrine ... you can toy with any of those strategies but the bulbing and shrine options require planning. Settling the G. Prophet is the most neutral option, imho.


--> Obelisks are cheap, so priests specs can be used for adjustment.
They can't compare to scientists/merchants because the hammer is irrelevant 90% of the time (compared to working a tile). The profit is mostly 1gold/turn + 3GPP.
Hatty being creative, there is only little incentive to build a monument before a library.
 

drlake

Emperor
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Plattsburgh, NY
I don't use priest specs much either, except when I have no other options, so other than as Monuments I haven't used the Obelisks at all. That said, I got three (!) Great Prophets for my first three GPs thanks to wonders. :( Settled one, bulbed Theology with one, and used the third for a GA.

Monarch/Epic to 760AD (completely missed a couple of checkpoints):
Spoiler :

This game has been going quite well (I seem to do better at SE games than any other series these days). No horses close in bummed me out, but with Copper and Asoka close by (and him working MY horses!) there was only one option - Axe rush! With two awesome production cities to start with, I quickly built about 10 Axes and a Spear (he had a Chariot or two) and headed for Delhi. He had three cities total, with Stonehenge in Delhi, and in 1275 I finished him and got a GG in the same moment:


Since my economy was so bottomed out by that war (I should have disbanded troops, and was forced to by a several turn long strike shortly after the war) it took a bit to recover, but I whipped out some libraries and built a fifth city (I had kept Delhi and Bombay) to block off the entire Western section of the continent from the Americans, Russians, Zulus, and Ethiopians who are sharing my continent. So far, no one else has fought a war because it's one big Jewish love-fest. Since Shaka is WHEOOHRN now, that probably won't last, but he's on the opposite side of Cathy from me.

Here's the current situation:


I'm expanding to the West along the coast, and really need to get a couple of scout ships out. I'm starting to pump troops out of Memphis to deal with any Zulu threat (settled GG, Barracks, Stable, HE, and Forge there). I built the Parthenon, GLH, and GL and took Stonehenge when I got Delhi, so I've gotten some useful wonders. Tech rate is a bit low but I'm the tech leader so I can live with it.

Cities:

As soon as the infrastructure in progress is done, I'm going to switch some of these cities to Wealth so I can up my research rate, while others will build troops to supplement what Memphis is doing. Delhi and Khoisan give me two decent production cities in the south for when I need to pump troops down there.

Selected cities:



Oh, forgot the Statue of Zeus in Memphis. I didn't want to build units for a while, because my economy was bottomed out so far... :)

Civics:

I'll switch to Theocracy and Vassalage if I get into a war (I traded for Feudalism right after taking this SS).

After tech trading:

I forgot the FR screenie, but everyone is Pleased of Friendly so it'll be interesting to see who Shaka attacks.

Tech Screen:

As noted, the plan is to shift some cities into Wealth when they finish their current infrastructure to help get my research rate up. I need to start getting ahead more if I want to win the Lib race, but I'm doing OK so far.

Religion:

I'm going to spread Judaism to all my cities, to help with production and eventual AP voting.

VC:

I don't like how big Shaka is, but he's behind on techs as normal so not a problem.

Wonders:

I'm doing OK getting these out, thanks to early Marble.

Demographics:

I need to get more troops, but I'm working on that. I'm in a good position to win this, I just need to keep expanding (which I have room to do) and outteching them.

If Shaka goes for me, I'm going to try to bring Cathy (at least) into the fight on my side. I'll send troops across and raze any cities I take (unless loaded with Wonders, I suppose). If Shaka goes for someone else, I'll accept a request to join from his foe but not him, and do the same thing. Other than that, I'm going to get some exploratory ships out soon and keep expanding into the empty lands to my West. Since I haven't encountered the other civs yet, I'm guessing they are separated from my continent by Ocean so I may build a city on an island for the trade routes.
 

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
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2nd session : 2000 B.C. - 300 B.C. (Currency)
I just noticed this thread doesn't mention the same checkpoints as in the 1st installment of the series, well... I find them convenient. Actually, they may be a pretty good advice as to how to play the game.

Spoiler :
Yet a round driven by the fear to crash my economy before reaching critical techs.

I was considering to go for the Oracle as the AIs weren't gunning hard on wonders. And I did. 2000 B.C. is late to make this choice, though... (suspense ! :lol: ).

Tech path : Mysticism --> Masonry --> Polytheism --> Priesthood.

Meanwhile, my third city was settled and it appeared it was at the crossing of the American and Russian borders. So... I guess that decision was important. The spot is valuable with resources and plenty of river tiles to farm.

Thebes also built my 3rd settler. He went east to the fish+sheep site. I don't want to settle too many cities but, still, I want some !

2 libraries and 4 scientists quickly made it through those techs and...
The Oracle gave me :

Spoiler :


I want to say of course.


Thebes starts on the Temple of Artemis... Got marble, right ?
At that point, Asoka is my "land target" as there doesn't seem to be any AI behind him.

Tech wise, the plan is to backfill minor techs : Fishing (to settle coastal cities), Pottery (to set up a few granaries), Sailing (to get trade routes with the world), Hunting (for my lone Ivory). Then I'll go to the classical era.

950 B.C. : Memphis generates the 1st scientist. He will be settled in Thebes. There's nothing much to bulb and I don't produce many beakers at the moment.

900 B.C. : Thebes completes the Temple of Artemis.
I can revolt to Caste System :

Spoiler :


800 B.C. : I'm done backfilling small techs. Here's the map :

Spoiler :


At that point I'm GLAD I settled Heliopolis where it is...
You can see I was intending to go for Litterature... Parthenon + Great Lib is appealing. Well, I didn't. I want to settle at least 3 more cities and I need to do so quite fast (otherwise Asoka will take the Pig + Clams spot to the south west). And I need to do so without crashing my economy !!
With plenty of production capability, I just need the ability to build wealth/research to support expansion...
... So I went for Currency (via Maths).

725 B.C. : Academy in Thebes :

Spoiler :


From there, I did some exploration, hired a lot of scientists & grew my cities.
Memphis builds settlers.

5th city settled :
Spoiler :


That is as much land as I'll have peacefully on this continent. There is still room for two cities close to Thebes, though.

And comes Currency :

Spoiler :


Conveniently enough, the AI discovered Alphabet on the same turn :goodjob:
There's gonna be some trading around !
You can spot a smallish island to the east, close to the Americans. I want a settler there.

Finally... Exploration revealed an inhabited island to the west.
Because fate does stuff well, I also have a Galley loaded with a worker and a settler on its way there. They will meet with an axeman and try to find a spot to settle :

Spoiler :


Tech screen :

Spoiler :
[/URL]

Promising.


Demographics :

Spoiler :


Ok-doing.


Diplo. I took some hits for refusing to stop trading with Asoka. He is everyone's worst ennemy and Cathy is in the game, so there were plenty of demands. I hope it won't get ugly in the near future :

Spoiler :


On that note, Roosevelt has become my land target... Well I'm hesitating at least. It seems he has no metal at all and my barracks are built.



What comes next ? Not sure yet.
 

vranasm

Deity
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Messages
6,437
Location
Czech Rep.
Around 770AD, would love some advice/correction of course

Spoiler :

Basically I tried to settle as many cities as I could, tech techs as currency, col, trade what things i didnt have, and around 400 AD started prepare swords/cats war against washington, since Ghandi is friendly with me.
War was succesfull (it certainly helped that at the same time he had to fight Russia and i think shaka at once). At 770 AD I capped him. Got feud + machinery for Philosophy (which I bulbed), teched CS in mean time.

So that means I can build Maceman and continue with war effort now maceman+cats war.
I managed to get around 900 gold now, that I could use
a) research
b) upgrade those swords to mace to quicken the setup.

At first I thought about war against Dutch, but I have not enough explored :-(, so maybe better against Catherine, since she is really behind the tech curve.

Some screens (I hope they will tell enough)






 

obsolete

Deity
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Dec 17, 2005
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Planet Earth
Settling on the marble here isn't so hot since it lacks fresh water.


I"m pretty sure it's optima, and I did it without a moment's hesitation.


Deity - NSC

Start --> to --> Finish

Spoiler :

Beginning wasn't so hot. I move warrior onto forested hill and lose my first battle at 97% odds in my favour. Whatever...

I ended up losing a tie on the Parthenon. I could have got it faster but I didn't think I had to chop since I had such a tech lead here it didn't look like there was a problem. Unfortunately someone on another island got it which was impossible for me to detect. This then spiraled me into losing the Lib race, etc. And then I got set hundreds of years back again, but nevertheless, flipped some cities and pulled out the OPTIMAL culture vic for this start.

I also wasn't happy that Catherine beat me on a tie to Music and grabbed the free GA as well. This also meant it took me much longer to flip/grab other cities from Asoka.

Stupid Catherine came at me after mid game with tones of units while she was already at war with Asoka. I got a huge army in no time and I don't think she even got one kill on me. I then changed religion, etc. to get on her good side since silly Asoka vassaled, despite I gave that guy every benefit you could imagine. Figures.

After that she took her aggression out on Shaka who had already vassaled the lame Americans from almost the start of the game.

Here's a shot to see how stupid the deity AI really is. Yup, I had that pigs in my city culture BEFORE Asoka even puts a settler there. He was never going to be able to work it, but the idiot AI thinks it's a great site anyway. Firaxis really needs to hire some 8 year olds here to give them some better strategic help here rather than who ever was responsible for doing that.


 

bhavv

Glorious World Dictator
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
7,358
Heres my go at monarch, just done the initial landgrab so far:

Spoiler :


Selling on plains hill marble or stone on the first or second turn is too good too miss, It allowed me to push out 3 settlers and Oracle without chopping
 
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