Second city founding?

Memo

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
15
Location
Chile


Epic Speed - Noble

I'm 7 turns away from a settler. I'm researching pottery (Agriculture > BW > Wheel > Pottery). Production was Worker > Warrior > Settler.
Copper seems to be way too far away, and those three gems seem to scream "here, here" at me.

So... where should I found my second city?
 
You should explore a LOT more before making any settlers... There's just too much blackness to your north and to your east. Especially I would like to see what's in the east near the floodplains, since it looks like a juicy city spot. Also the north with 3(!) gems looks great (though you would have to beeline IW to cut down the jungle). But from what we see now, I would probably place city to your northeast to grab stone, pigs and wheat. The best location could be 1SE of the stone, 1SW of the wheat.
 
You have a lot of area unexplored near your city that would impact where I would place a city. As Zanttu has said, if you place a city for the 3 gems, it would not be productive until you research Iron Working because of all the jungle in the area. I would explore the area immediately east of London to see if I could fit a city in that area that can get the Pigs, Fish, and some of the floodplains.
 
My priority would be getting copper or horses at that point. Explore east of your capital and hopefully there will be a source there.
 
It looks like copper is only fairly distant for you right now. I'd say unless you research AH and find horses before your settler comes out, I'd 2nd nbcman in that site with the Pigs and Fish looks good, even looks like there's some hills there to help production out.
 
Talking about second city, do people usually focus on a prodcution city or a food city when they build their second city? I find that trying to judge this based on what I currently have with my capital is a bit hard. The capital is such a great spot usually that I could do either hammers or cottage there. So I'm left wondering if I should settle a hammer or food city as my second city, unless my capital is in a really obvious floodplain-food-rich area or something like that and I need production, but as I said, capitals are usually so well located...
 
Talking about second city, do people usually focus on a prodcution city or a food city when they build their second city? I find that trying to judge this based on what I currently have with my capital is a bit hard. The capital is such a great spot usually that I could do either hammers or cottage there. So I'm left wondering if I should settle a hammer or food city as my second city, unless my capital is in a really obvious floodplain-food-rich area or something like that and I need production, but as I said, capitals are usually so well located...

Generally, I try to settle 3-4 cities in a row very fast. First I settle the cities which block the AI's the most, or the city spots which are most likely to be lost to the AI. So I don't really think about should I settle production or commerce city first, because I have only 10-20 turns gap between the founding dates anyway.
 
You should explore a LOT more before making any settlers...

I would phrase this differently - you should explore a lot differently. Which is to say, it appears to me that identifying your second and third city locations (which isn't going to be over by the cows where your unit now stands) should have a higher priority in your current mission order.
 
Unless you prioritize Iron working. Those gems are not yelling here here here...they are yelling "neener neener you can't get me. If you're playing on standard speed, not exactly a problem. If you're on epic/marathon....then go elsehwere
 
Talking about second city, do people usually focus on a prodcution city or a food city when they build their second city? I find that trying to judge this based on what I currently have with my capital is a bit hard. The capital is such a great spot usually that I could do either hammers or cottage there. So I'm left wondering if I should settle a hammer or food city as my second city, unless my capital is in a really obvious floodplain-food-rich area or something like that and I need production, but as I said, capitals are usually so well located...

It sounds like you started to answer your own question. IMO, settle your 2nd and 3rd cities as counterpoints to each other. If your capital is high in production :hammers: (and you choose to specialize it as such), then your 2nd and 3rd cities should be high in :food: and :commerce:.

When the capital can go any direction, that should make it easier to choose your 2nd and 3rd city sites. If your capital is high in :food:, and you can't find any other spot high in food suitable to run specialists, then the other land (or the lack of other land, rather) answered your question for you.

I also like the first few cities to be tight for lower maintenance -- which usually allows for an extra early city or one distant city for a resource grab.

On that note, there are a lot of questions left unanswered by the fog, but this is my take on it as it lies here now:



The capital has too many plains to become a 'monster' capital any time soon. It's only redeeming quality to me are the Forests begging to be chopped around it.

Cottage spam it and make it a :hammers:-:commerce: hybrid of sorts.

The Pigs/Wheat/Stone city has decent production and enough food to support a little whipping. Hook up the Stone and use Londres' Forests to chop out the Great Wall, Stonehenge and/or the Pyramids (the latter being a cheaper alternative to solving the :mad: problems you're likely to run into soon).

The Double-Corn/Fish city has great +:food:. If you're Elizabeth, you'd be wrong not to settle this city soon. With Caste System and a Lighthouse, you'll be able to run 6 specialists at population 9! (Without Londres' Corn, you're stuck with 4 specialists at population 6.)

The Sheep/Marble city is essentially a Marble-grabber. Yes, I realize it's one-off-the-coast and has very low food, but it's placement assumes there's nothing better hiding in the fog. It has a good amount of cottage-able Grasslands north of it to make it a viable early placement.

The Flood Plains city depends on what's hiding in the fog. One of those placements is probably one-off-the-coast.


I usually make a grab for the Oracle, but even on Noble, it might be a stretch ... you'd have to settle Sheep/Marble first and chop out the Oracle, but I'm not sure it would net you as much gain as just settling good cities quickly.

If it was me, I'd settle Grey > Flood Plains > Yellow > Green. (Bring your Western Warrior down along the coast to scout more around the Marble and Sheep. Bring your Eastern Warrior to scout more around the Flood Plains and to escort the 2nd Settler there).

-- my 2 :commerce:
 
If I were you, I'd found my second city next to the fish/corn or next to the wheat/pig.
 
A tip for exploring-- send the scout in an outward spiral around your capital. Try to get a second scouting unit online early too, as once you get a few swings outside your capital's radius it takes longer and longer to complete the loop, so once you get your second scout built you can send them in opposite directions. There is just too much fog around your capital for my liking, I don't think there's enough info yet to decide on city placement properly. Of course you can just settle anywhere, but with that much fog and so close to your capital you could wind up plunking a city down one or two tiles away from an actually uber city site instead of just a mediocre one for a resource grab.
 
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