Second Presidental Debate thread

[Zarn]

You know, it's not just about who we think won, because Reps think Bush won, and Dems think Kerry won. We are pretty much split on that.
What most matters I think is what undecided voters thought.

My political science professor (Democrat) told my class about one voter, who thought that Kerry and Bush were the same on every issue. She also thought they were 'nice.' My (I'm Republican) immidiate and out loud reaction was, "Man, I hope the undecided voters aren't all like her, not matter which way they vote." The professor quickly agrees with a smile and a short laugh. That has to be one of the very few things we have agreed on so far (maybe the only thing). I would rather voters be informed and vote Kerry or a 3rd party person than be uniformed.

I don't believe most undecided voters are that dumb, though. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised, if many have decent IQ's. Bush and Kerry have not be clear and truthful completely. I'm usually a little skeptical, when someone says something, and their past records say the opposite. I apply it to both people. I think many of the undecided are doing the same.

 

[MarineCorps]

Kerry just said Bush owns a lumber company, is that true?

He owned some stock in a timber company but he only recived $84 dollars from it. So going by the ammount of money I wouldn't say that he owns it.

@sims2789:Amazing how many ways you can find to get on my nerves.

 

[MarineCorps]

.
-He kept saying that Kerry will raise taxes, while Kerry admitted he will raise taxes.
.

Um, he looked into the camera and said that he won't raise taxes.....

 

[shadowdude]

He owned some stock in a timber company but he only recived $84 dollars from it. So going by the ammount of money I wouldn't say that he owns it.

@sims2789:Amazing how many ways you can find to get on my nerves.

At 84$ I don't think its something he could remember in a debate, amazing how Kerry digs up this stuff.

 

[Gelion]

Guys is there a place I can watch the whole depate online? I'm sorry if this was asked before.

 

[shadowdude]

c-span might have it.

EDIT: they do, click the red button that says "watch"
http://www.c-span.org/

 

[De Lorimier]

C-SPAN
Don't feel bad for asking. I did the exact same thing last thursday.

 

[Gelion]

doesn't work for me...

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Usually the figure showed Republicans slightly higher in college education and Dems higher in people that only went to high school, but I don't believe it was by much.

Funny, in Canada, College education people are highest for the Conservatives as well. The difference is that in Canada, university educated people are highest for the left-wing.

 

[luiz]

Funny, in Canada, College education people are highest for the Conservatives as well. The difference is that in Canada, university educated people are highest for the left-wing.

What's the difference between College and University?

I thought that in English both words mean the same thing.

 

[zorven]

Yes it is. See factcheck.org (the link Cheney misquoted)

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265.html

That Bush even lied about his company ownership ("Do I own a timber company? Need some wood?") makes him look like a dork.

If you go back to that article today, it has this posted:

(Oct 9; CORRECTION: What we originally reported as a "timber-growing" enterprise is actually described on Bush's tax return as an "oil and gas production" concern, the Lone Star Trust. We were confused because The Lone Star Trust currently owns 50% of another company, "LSTF, LLC", described on Bush’s 2003 financial disclosure forms as a limited-liability company organized "for the purpose of the production of trees for commercial sales." So, Bush does own part interest in a tree-growing company, but the $84 came from an oil and gas company and we should have reported it as such.)

So I think it is understandable that he wouldn't know off the top of his head that an investment he has that earned him a whopping $84 has an interest in another company involved with growing trees.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

What's the difference between College and University?

I thought that in English both words mean the same thing.

In Canadian English (and British too, I think), a "University" is better than a "college".

In American English, they pretty much mean the same thing, although "University" sometimes refers to an institution that has numerous schools (i.e., a law school, a business school, an undergraduate school, etc. all under the same name)

 

[Yom]

In American English, they pretty much mean the same thing, although "University" sometimes refers to an institution that has numerous schools (i.e., a law school, a business school, an undergraduate school, etc. all under the same name)

I know of the latter definition. There's a Columbia College and a Columbia University, the college being specifically for engineering and the university including multiple schools.

 

[Sanaz]

In Canadian English (and British too, I think), a "University" is better than a "college".

In American English, they pretty much mean the same thing, although "University" sometimes refers to an institution that has numerous schools (i.e., a law school, a business school, an undergraduate school, etc. all under the same name)

Same in the US. A "College" may or may not be part of a "University". A "University" will have multiple "Schools" or "Colleges".

 

[Syterion]

Was I the only one who thought it was weird that Bush said he couldn't decipher what Kerry said about abortion? I thought it was perfectly logical that Kery said he was Catholic and believed abortion was wrong but he wouldn't force his belief on others so he was pro-choice.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

What's the difference between College and University?

I thought that in English both words mean the same thing.

Not necessarily. By the way, I didn't have any overtones suggesting left-wing or right-wing superiority.

Normally, colleges are either more technically based, or are not as advanced in terms of educational requirements as universities in Canada. In most cases you need higher grades to get into university here.

Also, universities tend to provide a more rounded education, where you have to at least do some studies in areas not in your fields. Colleges, like technical institutes are often more specialized for what you are doing.

I was not suggesting a superiority of one over the other, and was not trying to troll based on a left/right thing.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I only saw the last few minutes, but an Associated Press telephone polle and the polls online show that KErry won. Last time I checked, the AP one says that KErry won by 3%, but the internet ones showed him up by a lot. The AP one is probably more accurate, as a higher percent of uneducated people are Republicans, and they are less likely to own computers, but pretty much everyone has a phone.

I would say the internet poll is very likely to be extremely inaccurate because there could have been millions of non-Americans voting in it (most of which would be heavily anti-bush and would be much more likely to say Kerry won, regardless of how either candidate performed), and is susceptible to more abuse (hackers making multiple votes, etc.).

In the Cheney-Edwards debate, most people here felt it was a tie or Cheney won it. When I had checked the CNN internet poll at some point during that night, Edwards was winning by more than a 10-1 margin.

 

[nihilistic]

He owned some stock in a timber company but he only recived $84 dollars from it. So going by the ammount of money I wouldn't say that he owns it.

That IS the problem. By Bush's tax code this is enough to qualify Bush as a "Small Business Owner".

 

[Sanaz]

Was I the only one who thought it was weird that Bush said he couldn't decipher what Kerry said about abortion? I thought it was perfectly logical that Kery said he was Catholic and believed abortion was wrong but he wouldn't force his belief on others so he was pro-choice.

No, I notice every time he plays the dumb card. He's either very stupid/slow (my opinion), or he's trying to reach out to the common (and not very bright) man. He's done it at least three obvious times (global test, pro-choice, lumber company), and I think he leaves a bad impression (he's either stupid or deceptive).

That IS the problem. By Bush's tax code this is enough to qualify Bush as a "Small Business Owner".

Yeah, this was another example of Bush being either stupid or outright deceptive. I have little respect for politicians, so don't really care which one it is. These techniques work, which is why both Kerry and Bush are lying, even though everyone can find out if they want. It's the battle of "who lies in the way I'm most comfortable with".

 

[SeleucusNicator]

In the Cheney-Edwards debate, most people here felt it was a tie or Cheney won it. When I had checked the CNN internet poll at some point during that night, Edwards was winning by more than a 10-1 margin.

Back when I used to post at the johnkerry.com forums, there were multiple topics where people simply asked the locals to vote for Kerry or for the Kerry-related option in online polls.

Those are definately tampered with.