Sengoku-mod - Fedual Japan mod preview/test

I have an idea for the issue of not knowing the whereabouts of all those random clans when they contact you. Before you enter the diplomatic dialogue with a clan leader, you get a message, e.g. 'Date Masamune of the Date clan wishes an audience' or so. And then you can choose either to 'Send him in right away' or 'Review intelligence on that clan', which will open a screen with the pedia entry of that clan, (most importantly) a map schematic which shows which parts of Japan the clan currently controls, and additional info based on available espionage, like army size, population, generals, vassals,...

What do you think of this?
 
I've been trying a bit more and here's what I found:

While technically the mod should largely feature field battles, that rarely happens and the vast majority of combat happens trying to take cities as usual. Which means you must waste a helluva lot of units on that bc in every larger defending stack you'll find units with large defense bonuses and hard counters to what you have. So far in the end I would just attack with as many cavalry units with max withdrawal chances, which sometimes happen to survive yet take the longest to replace once they die.
Suggestions to encourage more field battles: Diminish castle defense/fortification bonuses, tweak AI to sally out and make a stand. If you can't/want this, maybe you can make siege units a little more viable. Gve them a little better stats or introduce a building (or buff the gun factory) to give starting XP to siege units also so they can get CRII right away.

AI vassals are useless. They get into enemy territory but do not do anything.

Vassalization is sometimes a pain bc clans would rather go down entirely than capitulate. Would you introduce the strict rule that any clan down to its last unit capitulates?
 
If there is a problem with too many battles happening in cities perhaps he could introduce some sort of max units per tile rule that only applies to cities. That way both the AI and the player would be forced physically to keep their armies in the field. I think that one of the FFH mods has done something similar. Don't remember which exactly (it's been a while since I played it) but I know it worked well.
 
Why is there this huge discrepancy in scoring?
 

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Great mod. Played 200 turns yesterday and this morning.

Started of with a somewhat weak clan having 1 city and 1 vassal. Now I have 5 cities and my vassal has 2.

A few comments.

Constantly asked to join in wars. Perhasp you should make the chance they ask you to join thier wars ten times smaller. At the moment I get up to three requests a turn. I guess this is a function of there beeing so many clans and constant wars. Constant requests also damages my relations with the AI. Is the game designed so that you are expect to be at war with half the AI all the time?

I had my ally with whom I had exhanged hostages declare on me at pleased. It felt really strange. He would die very soon with me taking one city and my vassal taking the other. Is this to be expected? Is it related to that I was his only land neighbour? How well does the AI handle overseas wars?

I have gotten two quests. First quest I got to chose a bonus but once I finished? the second quest nothing happened.

The minor damiyos are very weak. Is this by design so that you can win the game with any clan?

I saw comments that is was difficult to attack cities. I had no such problems at all. I'm playing on the middle difficulty. Perhaps 200 turns is to short into the game to see any of the problems others have, but from what I have seen I could have it a little harder to take cities.

The military options are not balanced and I do not think the AI handles it well. Personal retinue is horrible. You get xp bonus on some units that cost twice as much as other units and you get to pay twice as much for your army. I do not see that I would ever use that option unless I try to make a challange for myself. The only option is that an option that makes you build units with food. Food is not that plentyful while hammers are. At least at my start. So that is a disadvantage. I had to start off building only building while trying to get my city up in size. Health and happiness seems plentyful. My vassals city did not grow for the first 150 turns so I guess he was building units mostly. I think this is a major reason why I was able to climp past so many AIs. They hampered themself by not letting thier cities grow.

I like that there is a advantage of having christianity. But there does not seem to be any incentive to convert.

It is very difficult to develop cities. I guess this is also by design. I get really happy everytime I get an event that a forest has burned down. I guess my comment is that it would be nice to see more economic options, perhaps with research. Perhaps some way to improve forest tiles.

I would like there to be easier to peace vassal someone. I think I read somewhere that it gets easier later when a certain wonder is built.

Some units says that they are levy units. I have search but been unable to find what effect that has.

This is a really great mod I'm looking forward to continue playing my game. Thanks.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback! I took a break from Civ to play Skyrim, which turned out to be quite absorbing... I'll try to wrap everything up and reply within the next few days.

I'll start with a short one:

Why is there this huge discrepancy in scoring?

Scoring depends primarily on time, like in normal Civ, except that the timeline is very tight. 1581 is a very early victory, so you get a huge modifier to your score.
 
How common are Castle-towns supposed to be? I think around half of my cities are 6+ so far.

They were relatively common, but developed over time. Most cities can be developed into castle towns eventually, but for some it may take like 40 years.

Also, did you remove the capital star because it couldn't exist with the Castle-towns' fat circle or because it wasn't relevant, what with Kyoto being the capital more than any other city?

Yeah, all of that really. There's only two city billboards hardcoded, unfortunately.

Re: the scoreboard, what about putting vassals under their master, like you can do in BUG? Perhaps this could also allow you to hide them if there are 2+. That is, if there is only one, you show it, while if there are 2 or more, instead of the name of the first one, you display "+X Vassals".

I tested something like this before and did not like it. The whole idea of score & rank makes it kind of a mess.

How is the "wealth" column of the clan advisor calculated?

Food output.

Takeda starts with a Onna Bugeisha unit. Are those only available at start or also through events? It didn't seem like anyone could train them though.

There's one Onna Bugeisha on the map, under Takeda control, plus one more you can get from a random event.
 
A few turns later the person I had intervened in a war with peace vassaled to me. This caused me to declare on several clans and my honor and diplomatic relations plumeted. That seemed a little harsh.

I liked that I was able to peace vassal someone but the price I had to pay was not worth it. Perhaps you can tweak something so that peace vassaling is more desirable?
 
I played this mod and had really a very nice time till I had this bug: hit enter and the game will enter an infinite "wait till turn end"

Thank you very much for this save! There was another freeze bug indeed - a little late, but it's now fixed on SVN.
 
I've got some ideas for buildings/Wonders!

Spoiler :
BUILDINGS
Inn - Reqs Tea house, give trade bonuses?
Toll Gate - Increase espionage, kill trade. Should require "Temple Economy"
Sakaya/Dosou - Something like a Bank & Brewery added together. Also possibly cause anger/revolts
Moat - replacement for walls

Stone walls should require stone resources, since they were uncommon in Japan. (Still, Nobunaga dealt it by stealing stone from temples.)
Tea houses should require a late technology (Sadou, perhaps)
Also, shouldn't ninja houses require castles instead of teahouses?

WONDERS
53 Stops - Reqs X teahouses (or inns). Give trade or road bonuses.
Gasshou-zukuri - Reqs population fewer than X (if possible), since they were built in the mountains of Hida/Ecchu. Provide Silk and saltpeter(?).
Golden Teahouse - legitimacy bonus? (Hideyoshi invited the emperor to it.)
Yoshiwara - TONS of :):):)

Is it possible to change city names when Azuchi castle is built? I've rarely seen it built in Omi.
 
Suggestions to encourage more field battles: Diminish castle defense/fortification bonuses,

This has already been done: both castle/wall defenses and city's cultural defenses are down by 50%, and also cultural thresholds are higher. Most cities have total defense bonus of only 20-55%, where in normal game they'd have 40-180%.

tweak AI to sally out and make a stand. If you can't/want this, maybe you can make siege units a little more viable. Gve them a little better stats or introduce a building (or buff the gun factory) to give starting XP to siege units also so they can get CRII right away.

This would require making the AI make stupid things, basically. It's behavior is based on combat odds, so it will sally out only if it has good odds to win, or if the unit is deemed useless enough to sacrifice. Field bonuses are meant to encourage field fighting and the AI technically "understands" them though they don't seem to have much impact on the amount of field battles.

For a history-friendly alternative for siege units, did you try using spies? Apart from the usual Incite Revolt action that strips defenses, there's also the new Sabotage Unit mission, which is there precisely to help in sieges. In my experience, it works great. It's also easier with universal EPs.

AI vassals are useless. They get into enemy territory but do not do anything.

Admitedly, vassals' main goal is their part in Unification Victory. I can't really rewrite Civ4 vassal AI. Most of the time you're supposed to be giving fiefs to vassals, rather than them doing things on their own. I've seen them attacking with some success, even stealing cities from my armies, but it's not common or coordinated. Since vassal civs aren't that good, I was thinking of an alternative in the form of military unit transfer (i.e. vassal is oblieged to give Ashigaru units to its master), but that's rather complicated to even think about it...

Vassalization is sometimes a pain bc clans would rather go down entirely than capitulate. Would you introduce the strict rule that any clan down to its last unit capitulates?

It's not possible. Cases of civs not capitulating when they seemingly should are there because of diplomatic restrictions, i.e. if your victim is also at war with other civ(s) that cannot sign peace with them, or declare war on you, capitulation is simply not possible.

The "Surely, you must be joking!" comment means they have not lost "enough" in this war. If a clan only had 1 city and a few units, then it won't capitulate easily, but that is realistic. This comment shouldn't appear if you took AI's cities and destroyed many units. Other comments usually mean diplomatic restrictions.
 
I have an idea for the issue of not knowing the whereabouts of all those random clans when they contact you. Before you enter the diplomatic dialogue with a clan leader, you get a message, e.g. 'Date Masamune of the Date clan wishes an audience' or so. And then you can choose either to 'Send him in right away' or 'Review intelligence on that clan', which will open a screen with the pedia entry of that clan, (most importantly) a map schematic which shows which parts of Japan the clan currently controls, and additional info based on available espionage, like army size, population, generals, vassals,...

What do you think of this?

That's beyond my capabilities, or probably anyone's, as Diplomacy is mostly hard-coded (CvDiplomacy is not part of the DLL, unfortunately). I tried adding a map to Diplomacy screen and leader tooltip but that wouldn't work either. I can add a map to the Civilopedia, however, little as it helps.
 
The problem with attacking cities is not the defense percentage, I can bombard that away in a few turns. It is all those natural modifiers like hills, promotions, rivers and fortified. And since the difference in unit strength is so small you need several units for every defender. A weaker siege unit but with higher city attack bonus would solve it.
 
Edead, hat's off, you've done it again.

I'm also having trouble taking cities. Could be the slower pace that the game requires. Maybe archery units need access to city raider, or collateral damage since they seem to be the "siege" units |(fire arrow promotion?). There isn't a unit that gives you the "shock" effect you need against an archer behind walls of a city. A few ideas to promote field battles. Max number of units in city based on city size. Certain buildings would allow an extra unit. Or maybe units in cities consume food, so you wouldn't be able to billet all your units without sacrificing growth. Or a command of the generals that is a challenge, and if the opponent doesn't answer loses honor, perhaps you lose more honor if you lose after a challenge.

That's all the time I can take from playing the mod. I'm so stoked for this.
 
I find that you can just take cities if you are willing to sacrifice 2 or 3 catapults. I think it is very good that taking cities allways comes with a cost. It slows down steamrolling. Is there a way to see what cities I would be able to liberate as new vassals?
 
Is there a way to see what cities I would be able to liberate as new vassals?

Before you capture them? No. I don't really see a way to show it beforehand. I have a list of completely new clans that can be created in a given city, but the in-game list is dynamic and depends on things like dead/alive status of certain clans or availability of ambitious generals.

The list:
- Sanada (Katsurao/Ueda) [not by Uesugi]
- Ogasawara (Fukashi/Matsumoto) [not by Takeda]
- Tsutsui (Tsutsui/Tamon)
- Nabeshima (Saga) [Ryuzoji must be dead]
- Kuroda (Himeji)
- Gamo (Koka)


Some dead clans can be resurrected in their capitals (except Hosokawa, which can be resurrected in Miyazu). Other new clans can be created anywhere from generals.
 
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